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Software News   Software News : Sun to Fully Open Source Java
   posted by ssolie on 23-Apr-2008 22:43:15 (2725 reads)
Sun is finally taking the necessary steps to make Java open source.

See Slashdot for complete details.
    

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Interesting 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 23-Apr-2008 22:49:02
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered.

Now this is a real news item !


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Nuder_Try 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 23-Apr-2008 23:21:10
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Sep-2003
Posts: 524
From: Wisconsin (Moo!!!)

OK, where's all the "Port it NOW!!!" comments!!!


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PR 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 24-Apr-2008 6:28:04
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1934
From: Suomi-Finland

Port it now! There You are;)

Must go to the roof back to work before turning 32 tomorrow so don't have time to port. (Don't have skills either)

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spudmiga 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 24-Apr-2008 10:09:50
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2002
Posts: 817
From: England, United Kingdom

Finally! This is excellent news, now the Amiga can at least access Java apps which is something.

Now for all the legal junk to be sorted out so we can get some new hardware and OS updates...


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abalaban 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 24-Apr-2008 10:14:15
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2004
Posts: 1105
From: France

Why is it *so* difficult to understand hat the problem *never* was the JVM itself for Amiga to support Java : the "only" problem always was the graphic part (AWT, Swing, etc.) that needs to be adapted to each platform's graphic system... We already had several JRE on Amiga (Kaffe was the first one IIRC, jike, JAmiga) all were working but without the graphic part which is what 99,99% of availbale Java apps relies on...


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Helge 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 24-Apr-2008 12:12:20
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2006
Posts: 689
From: Norway

This is great, and this will speed up the port of a fully Java-system even for AmigaOS 4 :)


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TheDungeonDelver 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 24-Apr-2008 16:05:04
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2004
Posts: 815
From: Unknown

Yes, but does AmigaOS have all the necessary instructions to support a port of Java in the first place?


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ssolie 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 24-Apr-2008 21:05:54
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2745
From: Alberta, Canada

@abalaban
I disagree. The real problem is Java is huge and complex. You need a small team of people cooperating to produce and maintain a compliant JVM (various estimates are out there). You don't just "port it" by any means. All the efforts to date have basically been one man bands. Blame the graphic system if you want but I think the real problem is the size of Java itself.

Add in the fact the various Amiga-like platforms continue to diverge while developers continue to disappear and you have a recipe for disaster as far as any large application is concerned be it a JVM, web browser or OpenOffice for that matter.


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Hans 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 24-Apr-2008 22:06:08
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4915
From: New Zealand

@ssolie

Yes Java is big and complex, but the sticking point is, and always has been, the native methods required for the graphics. Kaffe could run any Java program, so long as it was text-only. Koffie had rudimentary AWT support, as does JAmiga now. It's not the JVM, but the class library that's the problem.

The other problem is that every time the subject of Java comes up, we get people saying that it's bloated and shouldn't be available on the Amiga. That's not going to encourage developers to contribute.

Hans


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Petah 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 24-Apr-2008 23:25:29
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 369
From: EU <3 ❤️

As much as I don't want to come off as a party pooper, I really don't see the point for Java in 2008. Does anyone use it for anything any more?

Like all X11-dependent Linux-ports, Java applications would likely not be anything even remotely close to the resource efficient applications associated with AmigaOS.

Anyone devoted to porting a Java engine to AmigaOS would probably be better off writing a fully fledged Flash / Silverlight BOOPSI class instead.


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Hans 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 25-Apr-2008 13:09:14
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4915
From: New Zealand

@Petah

AFAIK, Flash and Silverlight aren't exactly the hallmark of efficiency either. Yes, Java is still in use. Azureus uses it, as does Eclipse and OpenOffice (IIRC). Matlab also uses Java for some bits. It's worth having. JAmiga already has a fully operational JVM, it's the class-library's native methods that need to be done.

Hans


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Templario 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 25-Apr-2008 13:13:39
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2004
Posts: 3478
From: Palencia city of the emptied Spain.

This will be a great notice if the java will can available directly for Amiga, and we can enjoy a little version for 68k machines and a big version for the other Amiga systems as OS4 or MorphOS.


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ssolie 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 25-Apr-2008 15:10:05
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2745
From: Alberta, Canada

@Hans
Say you have graphics working. Now how about networking? How about threading? The list is very long and the job is very complex. To simply blame it on graphics is very naive in my opinion and that is what most onlookers are doing. The job is just too big for one person. Simple as that.


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Hans 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 25-Apr-2008 15:23:29
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4915
From: New Zealand

@ssolie

Ok, let me clarify this as much as possible; it's not the JVM, it's the class library's interface to the OS. IIRC, JAmiga has threading (possibly buggy) and some networking support. Graphics is the biggest block to JAmiga actually being useful for something. Graphics is also the most complex item that requires a native interface. If we at least had that, then JAmiga could be integrated into browsers as a plugin for applets.

Don't forget that most of the class libraries are platform independent Java byte-code.

Hans


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wegster 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 26-Apr-2008 18:03:58
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@petah

Quote:
As much as I don't want to come off as a party pooper, I really don't see the point for Java in 2008. Does anyone use it for anything any more?

Like all X11-dependent Linux-ports, Java applications would likely not be anything even remotely close to the resource efficient applications associated with AmigaOS.

Anyone devoted to porting a Java engine to AmigaOS would probably be better off writing a fully fledged Flash / Silverlight BOOPSI class instead.


I'm sorry, I just read this as ignorant. Java is still used as one of the most used languages for commercial (as in real, not Hello World) development today.

If a complete port were done, this could include using Reaction/BOOPSI or MUI, if someone did it.

Whether or not it would lead to hundreds of games and apps everyone cares about, dunno, but it would at the very least give people of using the now very excellent Eclipse IDE to use, and other apps.

It would also allow people who DO work on Java to get it running under AOS/OS4/MOS/whatever for nearly free, assuming a stable and complete JRE.

Feel free to write a Silverlight class if you'd like, but because you may not have any use for it, doesn't mean it's 'not used for anything' by a long shot :-/


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Darth_X 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 27-Apr-2008 16:29:55
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2003
Posts: 2997
From: Vancouver Island, Canada

@ssolie
Quote:
developers continue to disappear


Don't scare them off!


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markus_wankus 
Re: Sun to Fully Open Source Java
Posted on 4-Jun-2008 17:49:55
#17 ]
Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2007
Posts: 19
From: Waterloo, ON Canada

Has anyone seen this?

http://jamvm.sourceforge.net/

It already runs on many architectures, including PowerPC...

M.

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