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Internet News   Internet News : New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
   posted by Ferry on 15-Oct-2008 20:04:46 (2704 reads)
Guido van Rossum announced back in 2000 that he was working on a new version of Python that would break backward compatibility. Well, the time has arrived with the first release candidate of Python v3.0. Python.org (Read More)

According to von Rossum, "The motivation for 3.0 was to have one specific event where we did as much of the backward incompatibility all at once," ... The idea is to "give the language a better foundation for going forward." Documents for version 3.0

As Amiga users, we now know that this has to be done sometimes...

Saluditos,
Ferrán.
    

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Moxee 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 4:39:22
#1 ]
Team Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 6291
From: County Yakima, WA State, USA

Yes, we all know, "this has to be done sometimes."

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_PAB_ 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 10:02:30
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Sep-2003
Posts: 189
From: Germany

I really hope that the Pythonians gave up the seventies style of syntax (identation based blocks) - this is (was?) crap.
Need to check that documentation link...

Edit:
Naaarf: "Leading whitespace (spaces and tabs) at the beginning of a logical line is used to compute the indentation level of the line, which in turn is used to determine the grouping of statements."

Python = No-Go.

Last edited by _PAB_ on 16-Oct-2008 at 10:07 AM.
Last edited by _PAB_ on 16-Oct-2008 at 10:06 AM.
Last edited by _PAB_ on 16-Oct-2008 at 10:02 AM.


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itix 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 10:44:24
#3 ]
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Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

I guess this means that Python is dead fish now.


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Leo 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 11:14:27
#4 ]
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Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

Quote:

I guess this means that Python is dead fish now.

I guess not.

Python 2.6 is there to make migration easier...

Much like some APIs were created to make the migration to macosx easier... and guess what ? MacOS has never been so alive than now... Guess breaking backward compatibility wasn't that bad...

Last edited by Leo on 16-Oct-2008 at 11:16 AM.


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_PAB_ 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 11:36:06
#5 ]
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Joined: 20-Sep-2003
Posts: 189
From: Germany

Sorry, but Python had a dead fishy smell for me since its beginning... even more than Fortran90.


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Rogue 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 11:44:57
#6 ]
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Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@_PAB_

Scripting languages are much like religion - you can easily start a holy war about them. I mean, there are supposedly people that (*gasp*) like PERL! Can you imagine? I can't, really.

Having said that, I cannot really understand why Python had to stick with the indention scheme, it's a hassle especially with tabs and spaces.

Time to start looking at Ruby after all, I guess.


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Leo 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 12:01:00
#7 ]
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Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

Quote:

Having said that, I cannot really understand why Python had to stick with the indention scheme

it makes you write clean code. It goes very well with the language's philosophy.


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broadblues 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 12:35:29
#8 ]
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Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4406
From: Portsmouth England

@rogue

So what's wrong with perl? ....


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RodTerl 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 12:50:33
#9 ]
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Joined: 6-Sep-2004
Posts: 589
From: Rossendale

And, whats wrong with Regina REXX? 8)

Should it be enforced, that is a new product is deliberately non comptible, with no emulation or translation sub layer, to its predecessors, then by being a totally different product, it should be named, called, and used as such?

That is, you can run as old code as you like, if you bother to include the required support code, but wouldnt properly written emulation layers be selectable, instead of constantly bloating to core code? How does AOS 4.x etc handle 68k code?. Is it a compiled in module, or is it like a seperate library code, that on pure PC native systems can be left out for speed and compactness?

Its done the same with Windows ME.. Python 2.6 is the last that will work on this thing.. What is the special code that demands Windows XP to actually run on?.. isnt Python an intrepreted scripting language, and so like Arexx, classic Basic etc?

Sorry bout that 8(. I cant tell the difference 8( Im useless at languages 8(

RodTerl

rx `say "Hello"`
say Hello


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TMTisFree 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 13:04:34
#10 ]
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Joined: 6-Nov-2003
Posts: 1487
From: Nice, so nice

@Rogue

Why not enhance what we have and which works, ARexx?

Bye,
TMTisFree


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TMTisFree 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 13:09:17
#11 ]
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Joined: 6-Nov-2003
Posts: 1487
From: Nice, so nice

@Rogue

Add AWNPipe on top of that and you have an easy lo learn language (ARexx) with the ability to make Reaction-driven programs for beginners.
At least that how I began.

Bye,
TMTisFree


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yak 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 13:51:18
#12 ]
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Joined: 15-Mar-2006
Posts: 322
From: Bochum, Germany

You can't really compare ARexx/Rexx to Python. It's like comparing Basic to Java. Just look at the procedures in Rexx and what you have to do to access global variables for example. It's horrible. Python is clean, and 3.0 is even cleaner. The indentation is an issue only for people not knowing the language. I know it was for me. Until I started using it. I just wrote the code the way I'm used to (indenting to keep it readable) and it worked.

Python is far from dead. It's not the language of choice you want to use for desktop applications but it's being heavily used on servers and in the industry.

You choose different languages for different tasks. Python has its purpose too.

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miksuh 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 15:36:41
#13 ]
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Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 731
From: Espoo, Finland

Really stupid move from the Python developers. Who they think will use that incompatible new version? Do they really think that eg. Linux distros will move to Python 3.0? I severyly doubt it, because it would create complete mess. It was hard enough to switch from python 2.4 to 2.5. Now if 3.0 is backward incompatible with earlier versions, then upgrading to it would brake everything. Python is used a lot in Linux.

Last edited by miksuh on 16-Oct-2008 at 03:45 PM.
Last edited by miksuh on 16-Oct-2008 at 03:40 PM.

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bison 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 16:10:16
#14 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1534
From: N-Space

Quote:
Really stupid move from the Python developers. Who they think will use that incompatible new version? Do they really think that eg. Linux distros will move to Python 3.0?

2.6 is the transition version to 3.0.

http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.6.html


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bison 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 17:23:55
#15 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1534
From: N-Space

Quote:
it makes you write clean code. It goes very well with the language's philosophy.

Yeah, I can write clean curly-brace code, but nobody else can.

If I have to wade into someone else's code and figure it out, I'd rather it be Python than anything else.

Last edited by bison on 16-Oct-2008 at 05:24 PM.


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bison 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 17:28:03
#16 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1534
From: N-Space

Quote:
I really hope that the Pythonians gave up the seventies style of syntax (identation based blocks)

That's an ABC thing, not a 70's thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_programming_language


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itix 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 16-Oct-2008 19:11:04
#17 ]
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Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Lea

Quote:

Quote:

I guess this means that Python is dead fish now.

I guess not.

Python 2.6 is there to make migration easier...


But if old version of Python works why bother with incompatible future versions? It is not like old versions stop magically working and one can always fork development and continue development from 2.5/2.6 version.

We probably see old and new python versions used in parallel...

Quote:

Much like some APIs were created to make the migration to macosx easier... and guess what ? MacOS has never been so alive than now... Guess breaking backward compatibility wasn't that bad...


At the same time they faced two HW platform jumps. Python is different... it is not magically obsoleted.


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Snuffy 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 17-Oct-2008 18:19:59
#18 ]
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Joined: 25-Oct-2005
Posts: 1121
From: Michigan, USA

Python is different... it is not magically obsoleted
It's faster and easier in python 2.5.1, than working with old crappy BCPL!


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bison 
Re: New Python v3.0 will not be backward-compatible
Posted on 17-Oct-2008 21:24:59
#19 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1534
From: N-Space

Quote:
It's faster and easier in python 2.5.1, than working with old crappy BCPL!

BCPL was before my time (I'm not THAT old), but I think I would have liked it.

An interesting historical note:

A lot of C came from BCPL, via Ken Thompson's B. This includes the overloaded "break" keyword used in a switch case statement. But as it turns out, Ken Thompson based B on an older version of BCPL; newer versions replaced "break" in the context of a case statement with "endcase." So in newer version of BCPL (by which I mean from the late 60's) you could break from a switch statement contained within a loop without using extra control-flow variables or goto statements. And here we are 40 years later, with C, C++, Java, PHP, etc. still using an overloaded break statement!

Anyway, I thought you'd want to know that. Back to work.

Example:

http://www.visi.com/~clar0193/bcpl.txt

Last edited by bison on 17-Oct-2008 at 09:43 PM.


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