@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

Bobsonsirjonny wrote: Isnt all this talk of G5 too early.. We need to get the user base sorted first, and that means more apps. We have suitable hardware. I would love to see a G5 one day - but imho the other pieces of the puzzle need to be sorted out first.

Good points. However, I see no reason we can't parallel the tasks. Rarely are the hardware developers working on productivity software and vice versa. Also, a faster motherboard with USB2.0 and newer standards will help to show users that Amiga is here to stay and they'll be running with the bulls as far as hardware performance.

The G5 will take time, let's assume 1 year. During that time you'll see dual core Windows systems come to life, 64-bit enabled MacOS come out and possible dual core G6 chips. Linux, of course, runs on these platforms so they are along for the ride. If the Amiga hardware stagnates at 1-1.5 G3/G4 and the costs remain the same as the other platform the cost performance ratio of the Amiga doesn't look attractive. Sure, us again ex-Classic Amigans will want the ride but I don't see how someone that hasn't used an Amiga will be attracted.

@Bobsonsirjonny

Hi Bobson

My first thought was also that software was more important and that we didn't need a G5 right now (and personally I dont, my XE-800 is plenty fast for me).

But as others said the development takes time and it's not like working on this project will stop software development.

The Amiga market is most certainly too small for both a XE/Micro/G5 and the other board Eyetech have mentioned (dont remember the name...XC??) but IF eyetech concentrated on the MicroA1 and future versions of low power devices there would be room for a G5 board in the Amiga market.

Seems there will be produced no more XE boards and the MicroA1 is not really a desktop system but something that would fit nicely aside the G5 board. Besides I think Eyetech will be clever to focus more on the embedded market with the MicroA1.

This project shouldn't compete with Eyetech (there's nothing gained by competition in this small market) but instead be the top of the range Amiga where Eyetech can deliver the cheaper less powerfull amigas.

As for selling boards at cost I dont think its a good idea, it will kill the last remaining Amiga dealers and I think it will look like a bad thing to investors in the project. Future developments will also need to be subsidised in some way.

Troels

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@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

Isnt all this talk of G5 too early..

If we don't talk about it now, we'll hit a dead end in a year or two, because the G3's and G4's will only last so long.

Quote:

I havent read the entire topic - but earlier someone mentioned it would be good for competition.. This is true when you have the mass sale of units, but I fear our market is too small for this, and it could cause some players to sink. I also dont think Eyetech are making millions off A1 sales. Alan explained all the margins in his presentation at Bath.

I would have to agree on this. Being an open design and such, would it be possible to donate such a design to Eyetech and ask (no, beg!) them to manufacture it? I think that would be alot smarter than trying to compete with them.
The other way around would be simply to ask Eyetech flat out whether they are planning G5's or not. If they aren't, then there isn't really competition except for Genesi, and things would be fine. If they are, then let them have a look at this thread and tell them that someone is willing to do much of the initial effort for them.

I think the biggest problem in all of this would not to be to produce a prototype, but to produce it in quantity as cheaply as possible. PC manufacturers could do it as long as they are produced in the 100.000's range. Too much for this little market, yes, but it would need to be a general purpose G5 board which should be able to run as many OS'es as it can get away with. I think it could get really popular, because it's relatively modern compared to the A1. If the price is lower, then we're almost there.

Next year the G5's come in dual core configuration. It would be awesome to see OS4 running on such a beast and allow Linux/BSD users to take advantage of the board.

@Bobsonsirjonny

>We need to get the user base sorted first, and that means more apps. We have suitable hardware.
I Agree on that the software issue is the most important one, but I dont see any reason not to address both problems.

I share your supportive sympaty for Eyetech, and other amiga companies, and I think your that our community is quite too small for cannibalism.
I think that pegasos/morphos Amiga split was a BAD one for the community, but I dont think this will hapen with this forward looking product.

I dont think this is too early, hardware design prototyping and OS porting, all takes time.
My unqualified guess is that Amiga5 with OS4 or OS5 support will not hit market before 18 -24 month.

In this time Eyetech should be able to, have profited for their investment and, in this time I think that the the A1 will be a bit outdated.

What then, I have not heard of any plans from Eyetech about an Amiga TWO, yes I am aware of they are working on completion of the micro A1, which I am looking forward for.

I think that the Amiga5 could, actualy be a benefit for Eyetech and the rest of the community.
We should embrace technology advancedment, not figth it.

I think an Advanced motherboad like this, is likely to be adopted by other markets, *NIX , MAC, think about Mac on linux, sections of BeOs society,
some BeOS die hards is not particular happy with X86 architecture and would love to have dual PPC computer running BeOS.

Which would only help driving the price of the motherboard down, and giving the Amiga platform more attension.

What I like most about this project is that it is an Open initiative,

[quote]
Digital disaster
As this is not a commercial effort (the idea of this project is a board made for the community by the community), nor is it a nmae of a product we can use the name Amiga to refer to the project in the same way that AmigaWorld.net can use it as their name
[\quote]
If Open is used the way is to be understood a bit like "Open source". It would allow Eyetech, to improve this comming Amiga architecture and sell
derived and specialised products for profit, and spare the cost of the basic mother board design.

A few exampels for what Eyetech could, do to improve the platform.
PIM would be realy nice to have in the future, this ofcouse neads support both by computer arcihtecture and OS.
PIM stands for Processor in memory.
DSP would also be realy nice to have and done the rigth way I belive that Amiga gan reclaim lost teritory, and win new ones, grafics and video industry.
Linux is gaining market shares here, which I think we should use for our advantage, providing the market with nice hardware to take advantage of these
hiqh quality products, both by having good linux support on Amiga and ports of this software to the Amiga OS.

I think that DSP could be used to implement low cost/ high performance streaming systems.
Applications gfx, and video rendering, scientific computing, this of couse requires a software support.

Eytech could f.eks. also earn money making making legacy suport hardware.
f.eks.

PCI Express -> AGP card, to support low end GFX cards.
legacy I/O cards. I think alot Amiga users would like to use legacy hardware for newer Amiga computers, exampels include keyboard, joysticks.
to only name a few.

Plz forgive me for not going in details, with the subjects, but my primary concern was to address the concern of Eyetech, and to communicate
visions, and idear, not solutions at least not with this posting.

@Bobsonsirjonny

Considering the amount of time to get something like this rolling I don't think ANY date could be considered too early

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.