@EntilZha

...thats it, a little more, a little more, don't hold
it all inside, its so stressful!. Just let the truth
out, and you'll feel much better. Here, have one
of these little pills, and drink this, too...

@Helgis

Quote:

With a report, we would be able to get a picture of when the final OS4.0 actually could become finished.

Yes, but in order to provide a progress report, all of the people involved in making the changes need to report their progress to a central source (a controller, project manager, call them what you will).
This takes time - which could be more valuably spent coding.

Also, the controller will then need to spend time correlating the information and assembling the progress report. If the controller is also a coder, then they will not be able to do any development, as the progress report will become a full time task. If they are not a coder, then they will need to be paid to just provide progress reports - a total waste of money.

In addition, consider that once the progress report has been published, things will have been moving on whilst the data has been compiled and correlated, and will therefore be out of date almost immediately. The only way to keep up to date is to do regular (weekly?) reports - which will cause a huge drop in productivity.

Then, even though a progress report has been published, there is no guarantee that the remaining work will take a known period of time. I work on projects every day, and I know that it just takes one problem or question to throw out the most meticulous of timetables.
There may only be one bug remaining to fix, but this may take a month to identify, correct and test to everyone's satisfaction.


The only useful, practical metrics that I can think of are:
1) Number of bugs outstanding
2) Number of modules in development
3) Number of modules in test
...but even providing the data for these is likely to be rather arduous (although the first may theoretically be readily obtained if Hyperion are using some sort of bug tracking software).

Does that give you enough insight as to why you can't have a progress report??


@Entilzha

Quote:

frell

WTF does that mean?
Is it a contraction of something like "fricking hell"? I like it!

_________________

@Chunder

I bet the secret plan is to pack it with goodies,
and make it so bug-free and efficient, that they
can take a nicely earned vacation upon release,
and have no reason to 'fear the inbox' when they return...

8')

@Chunder

It would really be quite useless...
The thing is.. during a betatest things change around a lot. An operating system is a complex thing and some components may provoke odd behaviour in other components. If one gets fixed another one may act strangely and so on and so forth. That means that knowing how many bugs are still open means nothing. And as long as development goes on modules keep getting changed - nothing is ever really *done* till someone says "FREEZE THIS" and it's off to the cd factory. This is something general for how operating systems develop and why it is impossible for anyone to make any sense or tell *anything at all* from whatever numbers you get. Sure, you could guess from it, but a blind guess would make just as much sense. This is why it's done when it's done.

@Trezzer


Someone knows, but is not telling!

Angelfire does not allow . . . you to see TheBigSecret.JPG

Last edited by vortexau on 15-Mar-2005 at 01:10 PM.
Last edited by vortexau on 15-Mar-2005 at 01:08 PM.

_________________
-vortexau, who's A1 XE-G4 remains at half-RAM !
A2000HD (from 1991) 060 64Mb PicassoII with OS3.5 . . . still working.

@Trezzer

Quote:

. Sure, you could guess from it, but a blind guess would make just as much sense.

Hey, then that would mean that anyone could be as "official" an update informer as anyone from Hyperion?

Then I accept the job and now give my official projection time.








So what were you expecting?

_________________
Fixed A1G4XE 7455 RX933PC with fried CPU
Sapphire Radeon 9100 128mb
ESI Juli@ 24bit 192kHz Envy24HT
Sil 680 Ultra Ata 133 E-ide
SeaGate Barracuda 120gb 8mb cache

@Steff

Heh - you're a silly person; stop it!

@Trezzer

Yeah - good point; my experience isn't with OS software, so the impacts of changes (in my world) aren't quite as far reaching... as you correctly state, though - more bugs are always found.
Perhaps a straightforward list of:
Total bugs
Bugs killed in last period
Bugs raised in last period

would give people a sense of progress, without relying on people generating reams of data for a progress report... the downside is that it doesn't actually let the public see where the end is likely to be. *sigh* The age old problems of project management, eh?

Last edited by Chunder on 15-Mar-2005 at 02:00 PM.

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@Chunder

A lot of folks have coloured lighting visible through the side of their case. . . . why not install

this kind?

_________________
-vortexau, who's A1 XE-G4 remains at half-RAM !
A2000HD (from 1991) 060 64Mb PicassoII with OS3.5 . . . still working.

@EntilZha

"I'm not 100 % sure, but I _think_ there will be an update pretty soon. If there is, it will be the last one before final release (knock on wood)."

Good News as long as the updates keep coming we can concluded that Os 4 is being worked on and that some where down the line a final release will be. I have had so much fun watching and reading this site just seeing the interesting things early bird users are doing with their systems-from Icon sets to coding and porting Emulators, DVD players/burners, Games, Utilities etc.. this community seems to be getting back to it roots again.

It is full of talent and love for this Os-and that is what will make the Amiga work again.

HYPERION keep on chugging alone we are with you!!!!!

@cecilia

I don´t know about that Baghdad Bill but now it looks like I took my Avatar from there, which, by the way, is not true. I think I was first...

Frans

@Chunder

Quote:

WTF does that mean?

Never watched "Farscape" ?

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

@glokraw

Of course, the idea is to make it as bug-free as possible, but I don't think that any software will ever be without bugs unless it's been verified mathematically...

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

@EntilZha
Quote:

I'm not 100 % sure, but I _think_ there will be an update pretty soon. If there is, it will be the last one before final release (knock on wood).

That's great to hear!

_________________
A computerworld without MS products and Windows!
Connect your Amigas ...
...The Red ONE-A1XE G4 - A3000T- A3000 - A4000 - A2500- A1000 - A600 - CDTV - CD32...
and your PDAs and laptops ...
Psion 5mx Pro - Psion NetBook - Apple iPhone - MacBook Pro

Quote:

I'm not 100 % sure, but I _think_ there will be an update pretty soon. If there is, it will be the last one before final release (knock on wood).

You mean we'll have no update in five years?

/me gets out of here before he is ANIHILATED!
(seriously, I believe AOS4 will be out by the end of this year! )

@Lynx

Quote:

You mean we'll have no update in five years? /me gets out of here before he is ANIHILATED! (seriously, I believe AOS4 will be out by the end of this year! )

Personally, I doubt that there will ever be another update to the "OS4 Pre-release" product once (if) we get a third update.

Of course, there might, or might not, be updates to the "OS4.0" product we've been hearing so much about. But not for the "Pre-release."

Quite frankly, wouldn't it be silly to support it once it's replaced by "OS4.0"?

(And that's how you properly split a hair. )


@EntilZha

How about a question that I'm pretty sure you've never heard before?

In the third update, what percentage of the contents would you guess/assume to be in their final state? (I.e. been bug-tested for long enough that it would seem rather unlikely that any additional work be needed on the components in question)

And how big a part of the final release would they constitute? (Ok, that one you've heard before, in one version or other. )

_________________
A1G4XE, OS4-pre

@EntilZha

Quote:

@MasterOfReality Quote: are you planning an interim Update 3 I'm not 100 % sure, but I _think_ there will be an update pretty soon. If there is, it will be the last one before final release (knock on wood).

Great news, but...

Damn! I owe you a shiny english pound.

@EntilZha

You have right !, Surely when os 4.0 will be released some bugs will come out ( as more users use it ) and you have to find them and fix them.. So is right that you spend more time to make os 4.0 "bug free "..

Go on !

_________________
GDG-Entertainment
OS4Games
Iksnet
Bitplane

@EntilZha

Quote:

10 o'clock, or when it's done, whatever comes first

ahhh, I just figured this out. These are Star Wars fans. OS4 will be done the same time as Esp. III of star wars is.

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@EntilZha

In case of bugs (the more serius kinds), will there be updates between 4.0 and
4.1? Sort of like boingbags for 3.5/9.

What I want right now is a bugfixed ethernet-driver. The speed of transfer is,
like reported by others, far too low. I hope that there will be a new driver in
update 3?

@Coder

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