Quote:

What you don't understand and I see no way for you to understand in this life, maybe in your next it would be quite possible, is that MorphOS is AmigaOS just as HyperionOS is.

A perfect example of trolling and evangalism that Mikey_C was talking about. He has an opinion (which he is entitled to do of course), stating it as a fact and suggesting that people of different opinion have a problem with their understanding.

AW.net used to be nothing more than a meeting place of enthusiastic and helpful people who are passionate about "the official" AmigaOS. I really enjoyed coming to this site and as a software developer the enthusiasm coming from the people here really helped to keep my motivation up to bring quality software to my preferred computer platform. I've noticed a growing number of MorphOS users joining this site in the past months and at the same time a growing number of flame threads and trolling. The more modest people who don't want to be part of all the flaming just get fed up and leave. All that will be left is the trolls. It is really sad that the moderators allowed it to get this far... I really miss AW.net as it used to be...

@Mikey_C:

Quote:

In short: Amigaworld: Pro Amiga or Not?

I refuse to accept the premise that this site can not be Pro Amiga if it features discussion on MorphOS, etc.

That is false framing of the discussion and, in my opinion, completely invalidates your question.

Speaking as one who owns an A1, a Peg1 and a couple of A1200s, I come here mainly (99%) for OS4 news and discussion.
When I visit Morphzone, it's 99% for MOS.
Amiga.org for all three *and* a bit of off topic banter.

HOWEVER, if this or any of the other two sites were to become officially exclusionist, I don't think I'd visit them much.
Seems a bit to fascist' for my taste.

Just my tuppence worth.

Cheers,
Robert.

_________________
Robert
--
A1XE G4, OS4.1. Peg1 G3, MOS 1.4.
Abel Soul - Check out our tunes on Spotify

@TheDungeonDelver

Quote:

On the one hand, I don't see a stampede of M-OS users flooding AW.net, so in that I disagree with you, Mikey.

Agreed. As I said before, I also don't see any MOS users flooding AW.net.

Quote:

What's going on right now, in the "Amiga Two" thread should never have been permitted.

Why? 90% of the thread was really interesting, without any flaming and with civil discussion.
If there are any single post which you don't find "appropriate", feel free to report them to the moderators.
Why should the whole thread be "nuked" and all the interesting get deleted?

Quote:

I don't act like I need to get everyone on an x86/Windows bandwagon unlike Buck.

Tell me on which bandwagon Bill is trying to get us then? MOS? The only "bandwagon" to climb on for which the free Peg design was discussed is OS4. I hope you don't mind if more people will jump on that bandwagon?

Last edited by hatschi on 03-Jan-2006 at 06:33 PM.

@Mikey_C

I bear with you! After having read this thread partially, I realised that I haven't visited Amiga.org for a long time and only very sporadically. Same goes for Amiga-news.de. Must have been months ago for the latter one!
AW.net is visited first thing in the morning! It realy is! Followed suit by OS4 Depot, UtilityBase.com and OSNews.com. Any others sporadically.

My policy when visiting AW.net is to avoid long-winded (multiple pages) threads. Two or three pages i digest by first scanning the contributants. Member signification in red I read with full interest. If some names are present in the thread, I take a peek. Some names I avoid completely.

I dare say I'm an OS4-guy pur sang! And not in the least interested in the MOS/Pegasos business. Not that i think those products are not good. I lack sufficient qualification to make statements about that. It is their way of meddling that I do dislike. Honestly I don't mind a posting here and there of a MOS-fan, hey, it might even be enlightning, but not the BBRV-style!

My take is to avoid those threads they participate in. Simply ignore them. A stance I would like others to take as well. Simply give no response. Let such threads peter out into nothing, with BBRV cs as final contributants. And then silently remove such threads from the forum.

On the other hand, and I had an inkling of suggesting it to the maintainers of this site, as an extra service, give the option of showing the participants in a thread before one enters that very thread. Would come in handy with respect to the topic, now wouldn't it? (Say YES, please...)

To conclude: Yes, I would like to see this forum an Amiga OS4 forum!

OldFart

_________________
More then three levels of indigestion and you're scroomed!

@hatschi

Quote:

hatschi wrote: Why? 90% of the thread was really interesting, without any flaming and with civil discussion. If there are any single post which you don't find "apprpriate", you are free to report them to the moderators. Why should the whole thread be "nuked" and all the interesting get deleted?

Because one: it's obvious a Bill Buck Brand(TM) troll. Why'd he come here? Why'd he post it here? Why the links back to HIS blog? Tell me why he decided to post where he knew this nonsense would stir up the most trouble if not to troll and cause problems.

Sometimes you've gotta cut off a limb to quit the gangrene from spreading and that's how I view Buck's evangelism: a nasty rotting infection in the body politic of AW.net!

_________________
The problem with AmigaOS on PPC isn't that PPC is big-endian. The problem with AmigaOS on PPC is that PPC is dead-endian.

@TheDungeonDelver

So why would it not be sufficient for you if only Bill's posts get deleted - after you pressed the "Report" button and explain to the moderators why his posts are a breach of the TOS?

Why need to "nuke" the whole thread as you proposed?

@TheDungeonDelver

Quote:

Tell me why he decided to post where he knew this nonsense would stir up the most trouble if not to troll and cause problems.

There was not much trouble caused as far as I can see. Only a single post (from Atheist) got deleted.
I guess most of us are able to discuss in a civil and mature manner, we don't need anyone to "nuke" a thread for us, thank you.

@koksa

You obviously don't know a bit of AmigaOS4, and believe what those guys (yourself?) tell you all the time.

1. source level compatibility: you don't have to use interfaces, it can be turned off with a simple symbol definition and link autoopen lib.

2. blacklist for Petunia is a possibility of do something in case there is any software incompatibility with the dynamic recompilation. (And also there are other potentials in this feature which is not exposed yet.)

What MOS capable of, I won't comment, that is not my task clearly.

One more thing: repeating lies won't make them become truth. Go figure.

Your post is the primer example of WHAT we are talking about in this topic. Go trolling somewhere else.

_________________
Álmos Rajnai

@balis

I think that is not so a bad idea to move 'them' treads
from the main page on to a back playground.

@all
As long as the site focuses on OS4 news and everything
direkt related it gives a good image to the newcommers
and other interested people in OS4.

Remember also that there has been said many times over
the whole world that AW is 'the' OS4 community site. So it
is importend that we keep a good image to the outsideworld.

In extremis you could only alow to show OS4 treads on the
main site for a clean look bud that would need some extra
moderation of the treads.

I also have been leaving the other amiga-sites for all those
invasion practises, and ... it's getting close here too !
For the moment it goes, just dont let it run out of your hands.

I am also not against other OS's, bud they have their own
sites, so send them away if it gets to heavy.

_________________
A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

@Mikey_C

Quote:

Actually, This site is being manipulated. every day more and more Pegasos users join this site. I can actually see from the sign up that we have even more Pegasos/Mos users joining this site too. At this rate, MorphZone is gonna be empty, this site, will cease to be Pro AmigaOS and....

You seem to have become somewhat obsessed, Mike.
I had my Pegasos before I had my A1.
I joined this site a long time ago.
I've even had help from other members of this site with MorphOS problems.
I've also had help on Morphzone for OS4 problems.
When you have three OS' (I'm also including 3.x) so similar, users of one can often help users of another.
I happen to like that situation.

What, in the name of sweet suffering f*ck, is so wrong with that?

Honestly......

_________________
Robert
--
A1XE G4, OS4.1. Peg1 G3, MOS 1.4.
Abel Soul - Check out our tunes on Spotify

@Mikey_C

Quote:

Mikey_C wrote: @falemagn Okay, Changing what I am saying. Yes, the TOS does not include the fact that MOS cannot be mentioned in here and indeed I have no problems with MOS being discussed, I do however have a problem with people using this site for Propaganda, Evangelism and Trolling when it is clearly not WELCOME by the majority of Amigaworld members who, IMHO are PRO AmigaOS and wish this site to remain that way. As it is, I fear it won't be long before this site goes like another did before that.

Define propaganda, evangelism and trolling, please?

For what is worth, I deem your behaviour very, very trollish.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@Zylesea

Quote:

Zylesea wrote: @Mikey_C No I cannot, since I am not the owner of morphzone. But at morphzone we are not afraid of OS4 users, but give them a warm welcome. Easy as that.

I can vouch for this although there are some narrow-minded imbeciles on MZ too.
I have been ridiculed by a few people there for using OS4 but, thankfully, the saner members far outnumbered the bigots.

_________________
Robert
--
A1XE G4, OS4.1. Peg1 G3, MOS 1.4.
Abel Soul - Check out our tunes on Spotify

@pixie
Quote:

Edit: Typo

You should edit a bit more

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@koksa

Quote:

koksa wrote: @Mikey_C What you don't understand and I see no way for you to understand in this life, maybe in your next it would be quite possible, is that MorphOS is AmigaOS just as HyperionOS is. Also, MorphOS is more AmigaClassicOS compatible at source level (see interfaces) and a run time level with 68k code (see blacklist of Petunia). When anybody talks about MorphOS is talking about the most well functional, supported (because it has a machine to run on) AmigaOS in 2006. But, in the event you don't agree, you should at least admit that AmigaClassicOS, Aros, MorphOS and HyperionOS are just the same one.

i would have to disagree with this. though compatibility might be better morphos is not amiga os. there is one specific reason for this IP. amiga inc decided to let hyperion make os4 not the morphos team. since they did this os4 is the defacto amiga os since morphos is not 100% compatible to os4 it cannot be claimed that morphos is an amigaos. os3 clone maybe.

now we all want our say about all things amiga but trying to equate the two does not help matters. all it does is muddy the water so on that point i have to agree with mikey that there should be some limit. this limit i believe is to relegate morphos discussion into the general computing section.

Last edited by jkirk on 03-Jan-2006 at 07:37 PM.

_________________
Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.

@Mikey_C

Quote:

it's the evangalising MOS users on here that are driving most of us nuts!!!

OK, I've missed something. Can someone please post some links to this evangelising because I haven't seen it?

_________________
Robert
--
A1XE G4, OS4.1. Peg1 G3, MOS 1.4.
Abel Soul - Check out our tunes on Spotify

@Mikey_C

Quote:

Mikey_C wrote: @hatschi For the last time, It's not the threads, it's the evangalising MOS users on here that are driving most of us nuts!!! Mikey C

So this isn't about that thread, you want the MOS users to leave?

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@COBRA

No, I am not that stupid. I wanted just to show thread an example of Mike_C technique: entering a pacific thread to destroy it. They have trained a lot on other sites, you know.

@Robert
Quote:

OK, I've missed something. Can someone please post some links to this evangelising because I haven't seen it?

I have also asked about that, herewegoagain has asked about it, but still nobody is able to show any traces of this mysterious MOS evangelism in the recent threads. There are threads where we discuss the open peg platform, since it has relevance to OS4, so what?

@Mikey_C

Whatever, if someone is considered to be trolling (be it MOS evangelism or not), report it to the moderators, or act on your own behalf. If it's not a breach of the TOS, either leave it there or stop constantly whining about it.
If you want to change the TOS, or keep MOS users from signing up here, discuss it with your fellow moderators.
I am satisfied with the current TOS and I hope that AWN will stay an open-minded Amiga site.

I'm probably going to say something that'll make me unpopular, but I really have to say it, as I hope it to be constructive criticism. I apologise in advance if I hurt anyone's feelings. I really hope I wont regreat this. But if the topic here is to discuss the problems with the site at the moment, one of the things I will NOT be doing is congratulating the moderation on this site.

I have noticed over the last couple of months that particular moderators have been leading the charge in discussions and often turning them into arguments. In fact I would use the term "feeding the trolls". I can't remember particular cases as proof, but it's just a general gut feeling I get. In thread after thread things are going alright until a mod steps in at a weird moment. Sometimes the mod goes off on a rant like any other poster, and sometimes keeps the mudslinging going. Anyway the mods are taking every single comment way too seriously sometimes verging on neuroticism and very often there is an over-reaction on their part. It's starting to grate on me. I'm not saying I'm going anywhere, or leaving in a huff or anything like that, I just wish that those concerned take a look at themselves and see what part they have played in the shenanigans that have been taking place recently leading to this thread. It's not a war you know.

I think while the moderators are trying their best, and are conscientious, I believe there is a problem with the moderation on this site, and that is that the moderators are not moderate. The moderators are fanatics. There is nothing wrong with being a fanatic, but a fanatical moderator seems wrong. It makes sense that a moderator is a fanatic as that's how they earned their moderator stripes, they'd have to be fanatical to always be on here.

Ideally a moderator should be unbiased or less biased or at least moderate. It's too easy to fault someone offering an opposing point of view. It's just human nature, and I am constantly seeing it expressed in various jibes. The moderators have become the major personalities on the site, and it seems to me that by exerting their personalities they are railroading certain threads and being over-zealous. I'm not sure they see it that way, but it's fairly plain to me. Perhaps it is too much to hope for professionalism in the moderation. A professional would not fly off the handle.

Perhaps one solution would be to parallel the powers of Moderators with the Ascended beings in the Stargate series. No bear with me. The Ascended beings in Stargate, although all powerful, rescinded their ability to affect human affairs. I feel the moderators being all powerful should rescind their ability to communicate in the particular forum they are moderating. Apart from laying down the rules and moderating they should not be partaking in the discussion and if they do they should not be involved in its moderation. Now, that probably wouldn't be fun for the moderator but it's only logical that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The moderators really need to be above all this, above reacting, and above reproach.

And the community needs to get a grip too, as various members are also taking this way too seriously. Is it any wonder we don't hear anything from any of the Amiga companies any more. I find it disgusting how we treated BBRV when he posted. Yes, pick his argument apart if you must, enlighten us with his past, however there was a lot of criticism that was pure vitriol and emotionally based. Now, hardly anyone from any of these companies does not have a history, and skeletons in their closet, but things became quite childish. Yes, his comments could be taken as snide and you may doubt his motives, but the community really made fools of themselves in their rudeness to BBRV and his proposition, whatever its merits. You would not have allowed any individual member to be treated that way, but it seemed OK, to lay the boot into BBRV. I am surprised at how magnanimous he was. We all complain that there is hardly any communication and yet this is how we treat someone trying to communicate, and I don't think it would matter if he was red or blue. And he can hardly be spamming if he has less than 20 posts to his name. In fact, love him or hate him, it was very interesting to hear from him, and I hope he stops by again.

I have nothing against either camp, and enjoy the odd discussion/argument, which has been the heartbeat of the Amiga community from it's inception. It's pretty much in an Amigans blood to argue that their system is better than someone elses. As long as there are no personal attacks and nastiness I don't see a problem. I believe this site should be open to all views, but remain with the obvious OS4 slant that has made it popular.

So now that I have dissed practically everyone......

Everyone, and I mean everyone, wants to see a bright future for the Amiga platform. Let's not lose sight of this. They just express it in different ways and want their views respected.

Ok. Going back to my happy place now.
We have no weiners!!! We have no buns!!! It had to be said.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@BigBentheAussie

Very well said!

_________________
Sam