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AMiGR wrote: @RoqueFort It's far from off topic, it's probably the longest on topic thread ever. Dave Haynie started the x86 discussion we currently have.

What I said was off topic, this is the longest thread ever, which wasn't what was being discussed. It was a digression.

I haven't really been following this thread, it's too long for me.

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@AMiGR

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Yes, they overpaid for a computer that was worthless 'till the release of AmigaOS4. While the AmigaOne is fine for OS4, it's useless for Linux.

Debian runs just fine nowadays even on the A1, so stop mentioning Linux.


I would not recommend the A1 for Linux, but as a second OS, it does indeed complement what OS4 is missing, like K3b and Firefox to mention some of the apps I use Linux for on my A1.
The reason I wont recommend it for Linux, is simply that it is not worth the extra inconvenience nor the money to run Linux on the A1, compared with an x86 computer.

Last edited by tomazkid on 27-Jan-2006 at 11:41 PM.

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@tomazkid

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Debian runs just fine nowadays even on the A1, so stop mentioning Linux.

No 3D (no DRI), no mainstream kernel support, so I wouldn't call it fine. No-one in their right mind
would buy an AmigaOne for Linux, everyone bought it for OS4. Yes, that's enough to complement
OS4 for apps that are missing but to say that when people bought the first A1 systems they got a
fully working system and didn't basically pay on the promise of OS4 is simply untrue, Linux support
was much much worse back then. A1 == the hardware plus OS4. A1 - OS4 == -not saying, would
cause flames-.

Last edited by AMiGR on 28-Jan-2006 at 12:31 AM.

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@AMiGR

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No 3D (no DRI), no mainstream kernel support, so I wouldn't call it fine.

I agree to that.
Mainstream kernel support and DRI 3D are still missing.



However compared with 2 years and 9 months ago when I got my A1, the Linux is fine (to me).
Back then, the problem with USB was still undiscovered, the problem with VIA ide-controller undiscovered and so on

Those were the days of

Last edited by tomazkid on 28-Jan-2006 at 12:36 AM.

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Site admins are people too..pooff!

@tomazkid

Yeah, as I said, it's perfect as a secondary OS for some stuff that cannot be done on OS4.

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@AMiGR

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Hm, where would Windows be had its upgrades not been easily obtainable? Let's see... Where would 95 be when everyone's machines had DOS installed had they not been able to "cheaply" get 95? 98? XP? When XP came out, Microsoft finally got the people that were pirating Windows (the softcore ones at least) to buy them, by protecting Windows for the first time ever. Mate, dunno what you think, but in entire countries where Windows now have almost 100% market share, the OS was installed illegally even by shops selling machines. Then suddently, when they got enough share, they started hunting down the ones that did so, therefore enforcing the hardware licences and getting one hell of a lot of money from people that had never bought Windows until then but needed to buy a new computer, or people that jumped into computing 'cause it became more mainstream.

Now you're just full of even more nonsense. Most people that had DOS as their OS at that time didn't have a computer capable of running Windows 95. Maybe some of those who had Windows 3.11, but fact of the matter is that most people keep running the OS they got with their hardware purchase and don't upgrade until they buy new hardware because every new version of Windows usually requires that you get new hardware unless you bought a new computer very shortly before the release of the new Windows version.

Now, even if selling Windows seperately from hardware has helped M$ to make even more money, it's still a well-known fact that Windows' success lies with their hardware distribution deals and the unfair advantage that gives them over the competition. They would have never reached the dominant position that they have in today's market without them. God forbid, M$ would have actually had to make a quality product in order to get any sales at all if they didn't make people that doesn't know how to install an alternative OS dependant on it by shipping it with the hardware purchase. Ever wondered how the worst OS in the world came to be the most common? There are millions of people in the world who doesn't even know that there are alternatives to Windows for the simple reason that they have never been given the ability to choose!

Now please stop demonstrating complete ignorance by still claiming that Windows would be so successful because it's available seperately from the hardware. One more time and I won't be able to argue seriously with you any more. It's tickling me pretty bad as it is.

Last edited by samface on 28-Jan-2006 at 09:15 AM.

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@AMiGR

Exactly, it was a perfect secondary OS. To be able to use that along with the new Amiga hardware while waiting for AmigaOS4 is PLENTY more than just a voucher or a club membership. Again, I seriously doubt there would have been as many that would have joined some kind of AmigaOS4 pre-payment scheme with *nothing* but a promise while waiting instead of an AmigaOne with Linux while waiting. It is also relevant to mention that those who acquired an earlybird got AmigaOS4 for free. Those who bought an AmigaOne after the earlybird offer has had to pay about an extra $100 for AmigaOS4.

With this in mind, who in his right mind can still be arguing that it's the same thing as a simple AmigaOS4 pre-payment scheme where the consumer gets *nothing* but a promise?

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

ow you're just full of even more nonsense. Most people that had DOS as their OS at that time didn't have a computer capable of running Windows 95.

I beg your pardon? What do you think the 486s run when they came out? DOS/Win3.11. They were
PERFECTLY capable of running Windows95 and many people had me install them on their machines.

Quote:

Now please stop demonstrating complete ignorance by still claiming that Windows would be so successful because it's available seperately from the hardware. One more time and I won't be able to argue seriously with you any more. It's tickling me pretty bad as it is.

I'd tell you to do something but it's against the TOS.
Let's see. Microsoft even has a development studio in Greece nowadays. They had almost 100%
dominance before they started selling Windows bundled with ANY hardware but some business
machines and PCs, even if not as popular as today, WERE pretty common. Yes, you had an entire
market based on pirated Windows versions. Pirated by the users and the shops selling the machines.
Then, Microsoft striked and took everyone under the OEM wing, ensuring that all those people would
now have to buy Windows and -tada-! They got the market.

This might have been different in other countries but I'm sure that it gives an indication. There were
no Dells, no HPs, no Compaq, no Toshiba etc etc PC clones there, every shop used to build all
machines according to the specs given by the customer and while there are brand PCs now, this
is still the case most of the time.

That is, from being out there, not from sitting behind an f-ing keyboard typing away safely. I've
spent my entire life in computer stores and not just as a customer.

Last edited by AMiGR on 28-Jan-2006 at 10:52 AM.

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@samface

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Exactly, it was a perfect secondary OS.

You love reading part of what people say. No, it wasn't, it is now. It was hardly usable back then.


Quote:

Mainstream kernel support and DRI 3D are still missing. However compared with 2 years and 9 months ago when I got my A1, the Linux is fine (to me). Back then, the problem with USB was still undiscovered, the problem with VIA ide-controller undiscovered and so on Those were the days of

That, from an A1 owner, in this very thread. Stop spouting nonsense.

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@AMiGR

Now I am laughing, don't tell me I didn't warn you.

The avarage PC user doesn't have a clue of how to install an OS on their own and no, the amount of dealers selling PC's with pirated versions of Windows never did represent the majority of PC dealers, not even close. I'm sorry but that is as far as this discussion will go. Now I'm off to the printer to get the print of this page, this one's going up on the messageboard!

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

The avarage PC user doesn't have a clue of how to install an OS on their own and no, the amount of dealers selling PC's with pirated versions of Windows never did represent the majority of PC dealers, not even close. I'm sorry but that is as far as this discussion will go. Now I'm off to the printer to get the print of this page, this one's going up on the messageboard!

Oh, sorry Sammy, in Greece it did. It was actually the VAST majority of dealers that sold PCs with
pirated Windows. And go on printing... I've got so much BS you've claimed on ANN I could print out
that you printing something I said would be a drop in the ocean.
Shame you found your way on another perfectly good message board...

Yeah, you can never believe that you might be wrong about something, it appears that you spent the
period between 92 and 96-97 when all this happened in Greece, since you seem to know so much
about the situation there...
Let me give you another hint: Up to 95-96 it was practically impossible for a plain user to buy ANY
original software, for the Amiga or PC. You were FORCED to *PAY* for pirate software.
Feel free to express how wrong you think I am or how disillusioned, it will make YOU look like an
idiot, as I said that the situation might have been different in other countries, I told you how it happened
in MY country.

Last edited by AMiGR on 28-Jan-2006 at 01:47 PM.

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@AMiGR

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It was hardly usable back then.

And what relevance does that have when noone could possibly have had any such thing in mind when the Earlybird offer was announced? What we're talking about is what may have had an affect on people's decission to buy an AmigaOne before AmigaOS4 was even available for it, problems that may have arised with Linux and/or the AmigaOne later on is completely irrelevant and just another opportunity for you to throw mud on the AmigaOne, like you've done so many times before. Just drop it.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@AMiGR

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you but, Greece is not M$'s most important market nor does it have much relevance to the issue of wether M$'s success in the world would have come from selling their OS seperately from the hardware or if it's because of their hardware bundling scheme. Your point, like so many times before, is moot.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

problems that may have arised with Linux and/or the AmigaOne later on is completely irrelevant and just another opportunity for you to throw mud on the AmigaOne, like you've done so many times before. Just drop it.

The following mud is an absolute fact and AmigaOne owners will back me up on this:
Without AmigaOS4, the AmigaOne is expensive useless underperforming hardware. The only reason
for it to exist is AmigaOS4. Saying that no-one in their right mind would buy it for ANY other reason
is not mud, it's the truth. Saying that it doesn't perform well in Linux and it was when it was released
Linux was hardly useful, it's not about "problems that might have arised", is stating a fact, not throwing
mud. The AmigaOne is for AmigaOS4, face it. For god's sake YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE ONE.

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@samface

I'm sorry to break it out for you, but I didn't claim that it was, I claimed that it's a market in which MS
holds 100% market share and in which it also has a small development studio for Greek versions of
Windows and I told you how they reached that status. Now, you are STILL ignoring the sentence
reading "it might had been different in other countries, I don't know".
Have you ever seen BBC's "My Family"? Well, people who have will get what I mean by calling you
Susan Harper.

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@AMiGR/samface

This has nothing to do with the thread anymore. This is becoming a cat fight and since both of you are not female I see no use for this here.

Coder

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@Coder

Okie dokie, it's over on my side.

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deleted by wegster

Sorry, asked not once, not twice, but theree time, funs over here, move along.

End edit, post contents removed.

Last edited by wegster on 28-Jan-2006 at 10:26 PM.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

deleted by wegster

Sorry, asked not once, not twice, but theree time, funs over here, move along.

End edit, post contents removed.

Last edited by wegster on 28-Jan-2006 at 10:26 PM.

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@Coder

No more popcorn huh...

Oh wel;

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