@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote: @wegster Quote: Whether or not any of these products ever come to exist or not, in that they are available for sale, and someone outside of Genesi owns one, and/or can review the product...remains to be seen. You forgot the main problem: Port our lovely OS4 to this new platforms. I don't know if the problem remain also for the ACK or Troika mobo. As you know, 20k Euro are needed for the operation, not considering the time and other resources or things that we don't know.

No, I didn't forget. There is no problem- OS4 won't happen on Genesi hardware. My prior comment was about Genesi products in general, it still remains a delusion to think AInc will ever license Genesi, if users want it or not.

Let's face it, if OS4 was going to happen on some 'readily available' platform, regardless of reasons not to, PPC Macs are out there in numbers far exceeding A1s, Pegs, etc, and we'd have an AOS laptop for a change. Instead, we're faced with seeming idiocy in trying to NOT grow the platform. So be it, it's not 'our' OS. That still doesn't mean Genesi hardware will ever see OS4 legally.

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@wegster

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The only thing I believe they have that is 'production ready' is the Pegasos II

I'm not really sure if that's the case either. But I haven't tried to order one, to be honest. The only thing I know is, that usually it takes forever to get new boards if a production run was sold out, because they always waited until they had enough funding to run the next production run (which, BTW, the dealers payed in advance). But maybe this has changed in the meantime.

But thnaks for the description about the use of the PPC. That makes sence. I have no insight what datacenters still need. I didn't know that power is still such an issue.

Well, if they really get their foot in the door, that sure is an business opportunity for Genesi (less for Amiga and derivates, though). I don't really believe in a spin of product, e.g. make the big bucks in the industry and use the additional cash flow for the fun part - it doesn't work that way. At least not for a serious things. You really have to make a lot of cash to be able to do that. Hence my doubt in the Amiga interesst.

I am curious if the Amiga only companys can be sucessfull, though. At least that would keep the focus on the Amiga.

While I would really see a 970 based AmigaOS board, I don't think it will happen any time soon. But I think the 7448/1.7 is not really that bad, even compared to current PCs.

I still miss any CELL based development, though. But, maybe Sony is blocking that until the PS3 is out (I guess they 'must' be the first)

A cell blade could make a difference, too. But probably for things like video on demand services and such (Virtual Block Buster - damn, I should reserve that name). And we are not quiete there yet. (well, some cell blades were anounced, though).

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@AmigaBlitter

I seriously doubt, that the 20K are a problem if you want to do serious business. If you can design a 970 board, you can certainly spend a 25% monthly income to port the OS.

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@Jorge

Quote:

Jorge wrote: @acefnq I agree. marketing bla. At least Genesi tries to do some advertising. I did't quite get the benefit of a ppc cpu. All that could easily be implemented using a std x86 board(s). And would probably be cheaper. (one platform for all can't be the argument)

This way... they don't have to compete with Windows or Linux x86.

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@T_Bone

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This way... they don't have to compete with Windows or Linux x86.

Yes, but as we all know, Linux x86 is not a real competition: It is still around somehow, but much less widely used than Linux PPC.
Also don't forget that there was Windows NT4 for PPC (which was quickly dropped however)

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@Jorge

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I did't quite get the benefit of a ppc cpu. All that could easily be implemented using a std x86 board(s). And would probably be cheaper. (one platform for all can't be the argument)

The pro-PPC argument is and was that the PowerPC is used in embedded devices while x86 isn't.

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@Rogue
Quote:

The pro-PPC argument is and was that the PowerPC is used in embedded devices while x86 isn't.

So the anti-PPC argument might be that the PowerPC is not widely available on the desktop while x86 is.
I always had the impression that most people here are primarily interested in running OS4.0 on a desktop computer, not on embedded devices.

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@polka.

Quote:

I always had the impression that most people here are primarily interested in running OS4.0 on a desktop computer, not on embedded devices.

Well...there is/was an often quoted phrase "AmigaOne partners".
Perhaps there is an -operative- word somewhere in that phrase.

#6

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@polka.

Quote:

polka. wrote: @Rogue Quote: The pro-PPC argument is and was that the PowerPC is used in embedded devices while x86 isn't. So the anti-PPC argument might be that the PowerPC is not widely available on the desktop while x86 is. I always had the impression that most people here are primarily interested in running OS4.0 on a desktop computer, not on embedded devices.

Exactly.

@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote: @Jorge Quote: I did't quite get the benefit of a ppc cpu. All that could easily be implemented using a std x86 board(s). And would probably be cheaper. (one platform for all can't be the argument) The pro-PPC argument is and was that the PowerPC is used in embedded devices while x86 isn't.

Not only would that as an arguement be irrelevant as a reason for using a particular CPU in your own products, but the stated reason itself is just wrong.

Embedded CPU trends survey


Embedded device OS survey

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@T_Bone

Oh no!! Really!? Now what?
pixie runs away screaming

Last edited by pixie on 08-Jun-2006 at 11:19 AM.

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@Jorge

Quote:

I still miss any CELL based development, though. But, maybe Sony is blocking that until the PS3 is out (I guess they 'must' be the first)

Nope. IBM is ready to assist who want to develop Cell based motherboard or PCI card with Cell inside.

"there are standard products coming -- from IBM and others -- which you might use as a building block to put Cell into a system you're designing. Several companies are pursuing this strategy, as it has cost and TTM advantages over a custom design."

"If you are interested in a custom design in order to best optimize Cell BE for your application, please consider contacting E&TS via the "Ready to Talk" link on the E&TS page: http://www-03.ibm.com/technology/ourwork/offering_cell_micro.shtml"

A fews questions to Rogue and EntilZha:

Is it possible to use a PCI card (Cell based) as a coprocessor? I mean: is an hard task to reprogram the OS4 kernel to use an external coprocessor?
The Cell SPE units can be used as the old Amiga coprocessor?

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@T_Bone

Quote:

Not only would that as an arguement be irrelevant as a reason for using a particular CPU in your own products, but the stated reason itself is just wrong. Embedded CPU trends survey

I think that graph may show a subset of the embedded market as the actual numbers are wildly different. x86 is used in the embedded market but the numbers are practically non-existent, well under 1%.

x86 is used in IIRC low 10's of millions of units/year, compare that to ARM who are approaching 2 billion units per year.

So, yes x86 are used in embedded but the numbers are insignificant.

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@Rogue

Quote:

The pro-PPC argument is and was that the PowerPC is used in embedded devices while x86 isn't.

I am aware of it. I was specifically refering to the presentation as such (which is not targeted at the embedded market, primarily - at least that's how I understood it).

Almost everything has a ppc on it if it is embedded. Even we switched to some sort of 440 or so for our controller board (but still use an Pentium M on the MM seide). So, yes, I understand that part.

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XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)