@thread
Ok, I've asked you to calm down, now it's heating up again...


Thread locked till 02:00 CET!
So I can catch up with all the AR's from this thread

Last edited by tomazkid on 08-Sep-2006 at 11:12 PM.

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Site admins are people too..pooff!

@Atheist

Quote:

How'd this get listed under "Amiga Development".

now moved to "General Computing and Technology"

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Site admins are people too..pooff!

Ok, it's 02:00 CET, time to unlock.



Bear in mind that this thread might very well have passed the point where it has served it's purpose, from now on, please be contructive in your posts, if you disagree in an argumentation, say it politely!



*Edited a grammar error, pointed out by Seehund. *

Last edited by tomazkid on 15-Sep-2006 at 05:49 PM.

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@bbrv

Quote:

the current Amiga, Inc. of Delaware seems to have become more aggressive and restrictive on their IP claims, and they apparently have money to spend on law firms (though Bolton is still owed money and has an outstanding judgment). In the meanwhile, the Amiga trademark has become very weak. Many patents have expired and a German court has already ruled that no exclusive rights to the OS went out of Commodore. Not to mention there are legal licensees from that time period, but that is enough for now. We will cover the rest in the questions...

Now, this have sense with the answers of bill

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No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

Maybe BBRV can finally get a license for AOS4/EFIKA/Pegasus/Whatever and be done with this whole stupid ordeal.

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- Ronald

All beer tastes bad.

@Atheist

Quote:

Atheist wrote: No matter how you look at it, bb's trying to get AOS4.0 to sell his product (a motherboard) with no obligations whatsoever on his part TO AOS4.0. Whether it lives or dies, he couldn't give a rats ass.

Hardware does not need AOS4 to sell. Hardware vendors do not give a rat's ass about AOS4. Hardware vendors have no obligations to AOS4, and have no rational business reason to take any such obligations upon them.

AOS4 is dependent on hardware and hardware vendors.
Hardware and hardware vendors are not dependent on AOS4.

The compulsory hardware licensing scheme is constructed from a weird alternate view on reality, where things are the opposite of what I just described. That is why AOS4 is dead, dead, dead, unless the scheme is canned.

Quote:

If AOS4.0 is not coupled with his MB, if sales of AOS are 10% of his MB output, he don't care.

Of course not. He's a hardware vendor. Let's use your numbers: He has no reason to go after 10% when he can go after the other 90% (or 100%, if the licensing scheme was canned).
No vendor that matters wants to pay money and take on extra obligations for "10%" AmigaOS customers. If PPC weren't already dead on the desktop and Apple still developed new PPC Macs (the frigging obvious option for any PPC desktop OS), those "10%" would be closer to 0.01% for them.

AmigaOS is the loser today, not hardware vendors. And that's not the fault of independent hardware vendors who obviously act in their own interests, and will always do so. They're businesses (hopefully), not charities for a vanishing number of people who hold delusions about "new Amigas".

Quote:

That is a joke, and Amiga cannot survive.

Amiga probably need a revenue stream to survive. AmigaOS sales could generate a revenue stream, for both AInc and Hyperion. Now they've made it nearly impossible to sell AmigaOS at all.

If you're talking about Amiga-the-computer, that died in 1994. That's why we're (supposed to be) getting AmigaOS4, which is meant to run on 3rd party hardware since there are no more Amigas.

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Oh, bother.

@tomazkid

Quote:

tomazkid wrote: Ok, it's 02:00 CET, time to lock up.

låsa upp = unlock
lock up = låsa

Di därna jivvla utlänningarna med sitt ologiska låtsasspråk! :)

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Oh, bother.

PICTURES!

@Seehund

Quote:

låsa upp = unlock lock up = låsa

Hehe, alldeles rätt påpekat

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@ironfist

Just needs a cool looking casing and add AOS4 sauce then "it's done."

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- Ronald

All beer tastes bad.

ronaldst:
Hehe!

Yeah, the EFIKA is so cool I can barely wait for it. I'm relly looking
forward playing with it. :P

@ironfist

Why are they only sold in batches of ten? Surely they're not that unreliable you need to have 9 spares handy!

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@ironfist

Quote:

PICTURES!

Its a hoax. Just admit it.

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...wait... what?

@ironfist

Quote:

ironfist wrote: PICTURES!

Sweet. Efika looks really neat. I just hope that they finally send a prototype to the MorphOS-Team. If MOS doesn't run on Efika, I would have much less interest in it.

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This signature is in the middle of a much needed facelift!

@polka.

Quote:

polka. wrote: @ironfist Quote: ironfist wrote: PICTURES! Sweet. Efika looks really neat. I just hope that they finally send a prototype to the MorphOS-Team. If MOS doesn't run on Efika, I would have much less interest in it.

If not then we even have one last hope with AROS

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No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

Quote:

If not then we even have one last hope with AROS

It's not that I see Efika as the "last chance" for Morphos. there already _is_ hardware that you can buy and that runs MOS. Doesn't look too doomy to me.

Last edited by polka. on 15-Sep-2006 at 08:39 PM.

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@Seehund

I think you don´t even believe yourself, but you try to convince yourself and all your blue partners that you can live without Amiga and it is not your reference and holy grail. But in the deepest part of your mind, your heart and your soul, YOU KNOW YOU CAN´T.

The same goes for BBRV: They came because of Amiga, they tried to own Amiga, they tried to buy, collaborate, sue, threaten.. whatever! because they deserve, love, feel, breath and live for Amiga.

And the same goes for that "bastard" machines created by all that community: They know for totally sure that they will not BOOST sales until they run OS4 and be (at least kind of) an official Amiga product. But they would certainly sell a lot more if one day they could achieve that, cause the Amiga community would buy them in huge amounts (I am speaking about probably +10.000 units). And more important: Have a lot more developers creating programs and applications to make their machines become something interesting to buy.

I think this isn´t happening before because Eyetech and Amiga hate BBRV with all their soul (and they have their reasons, so I kind of support them).

But I hope sooner than later they find a solution that surely make all of them loose a bit, but for win a lot.

Edit: wrong typing and expressions. Sorry

Last edited by vision on 15-Sep-2006 at 10:10 PM.
Last edited by vision on 15-Sep-2006 at 10:07 PM.
Last edited by vision on 15-Sep-2006 at 10:05 PM.

@vision

Quote:

I think you don´t even believe yourself, but you try to convince yourself and all your blue partners that you can live without Amiga and it is not reference and holy grail.

Who knows, maybe even Hyperion are doing that at the current point: Debating if they can find a way (most likely through lawyers) to go _without_ Amiga Inc.

Tomorrow, we could hear that Troika might "try" without a license. If that works out and if Amiga Inc. can't do anything about it, this opens the door for many other possibilities, including Genesi hardware or 3rd party hardware based on the Open Pegasos.

Quote:

I think this isn´t happening before because the Friedens and Amiga hate BBRV with all their soul, and they have their reasons, so I kind of support them.

I don't think the Friedens "hate" bbrv. You might be talking about Hyperion. The Friedens are only doing their job as programmers and they surely hope that OS4 would run on as many PPC-platforms as possible. Hyperion on the other hand might be a bit cautious when dealing with bbrv, that's possible. But is this situation any different from their current relationship with Amiga Inc.? Is the latter relationship any better, after what we heard in the interview?
I think they would do anything to get their OS sold and to regain at least a part of their investments.

Last edited by polka. on 15-Sep-2006 at 09:17 PM.

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@vision
Quote:

They know for totally sure that they will not BOOST sales until they cannot run OS4

Double negatives are tricky ;)

@vision

Quote:

The same goes for BBRV: They came because of Amiga

They came because of "community", because of potential and "fanaticaly" active userbase, which can try to show that it's alive, for potential sales and to show their partners at power.org that it is worthwhile to invest into power(pc) desktop (and similar) machines/chips. They are fighting for their own and PPC survival. Freescale has given up, IBM will soon give up too (they'll concentrate on their own markets). Genesi has put massive "power" to influence fixing bugs in MPC5200B that no one cares about in embeded market. BBRV for years told that rising tide will lift all boats, but OS4 community doesn't care and doesn't participate in Power future because of some stupid "Genesi is evil" and power.org is irrelevant plot.

Hell, this might be your own chance to get some long term things out of power.org members. But OS4 is doomed more and more, after looking at B.Mc (Donnald) answers[quote]