@brotheris

Get a clue, the OS4 community are not the ones stopping OS4 running on Genesi hardware.

@CodeSmith

Quote:

@brotheris Get a clue, the OS4 community are not the ones stopping OS4 running on Genesi hardware.

No but...
Quote:

OS4 community doesn't care and doesn't participate in Power future because of some stupid "Genesi is evil" and power.org is irrelevant plot

still holds...

Last edited by pixie on 15-Sep-2006 at 10:36 PM.

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@CodeSmith

No one outside this "community" cares about who is at which side. Powers that Power chips just need a market. Do you think current Amiga market is of value to them ? If not, then how is the future ? This beating around the bush that lasts for years doesn't help. Maybe BBRV doesn't need to try in this side because this side is irrlevant ?

[edit] yeah, my english still sucks

Last edited by brotheris on 15-Sep-2006 at 10:41 PM.

@brotheris

Here's what I was replying to:

Quote:

but OS4 community doesn't care and doesn't participate in Power future because of some stupid "Genesi is evil" and power.org is irrelevant plot.

Do you seriously think that if OS4 ran on generic PPC hardware anyone here (expect for the obvious trolls) would stay away from it because of Genesi being "evil"? This whole mess is the fault of a very small group of individuals, kindly don't paint the entire OS4 community with the same brush. Besides, why do you care? according to you, there's too few of us OS4 users to make a difference either way.

vision:
"They know for totally sure that they will not BOOST sales until
they run OS4 and be (at least kind of) an official Amiga product."

Very interesting statement considering they sell 40-50 complete
ODW's per week. For a small company, selling an obscure plat-
form as the ODW, I really think those numbers are great. Re-
member that the ODW is a few years old..

The last weeks they have sold ODW's to IBM, Sun, Microsoft and
a whole bunch of universities and schools. It's a solid and complete
development platform. The EFIKA will be used in the same way for
embedded development and production.

I'm pretty sure it will sell like hot cakes once it's ready and selling
in single quantities.

@ironfist

Quote:

I'm pretty sure it will sell like hot cakes once it's ready and selling

Not to me or anyone I know. We would rather have the pancakes.

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@ironfist

Why do you think that?

I'd rather use my PC if Efika was the only board available for OS4. As would many MorphOS
users aswell if Efika was the only board for it.
IMHO Efika is not worth the trouble for desktop. Very nice board indeed for embedded use
though.

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Samwel:
Where did I say it was for desktop?

Embedded, embedded, embedded..

@ironfist

All you blue users keep telling us Efika is the best thing since A500.. I simply say I don't
think so. I'm not interested.
What use would a desktop user have with a embedded (really slow) board?

But as I said before.. For embedded use it's a great board.

Why do you promote Efika on AW if not for desktop usage? We are probably 99.9% desktop
users here..

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Samwel:
"What use would a desktop user have with a embedded (really slow) board?"

What use will you all have with the PowerVixxen? Will you use your
A1200's for embedded development?

It has the same CPU but is even slower since it uses the slow A1200
expansion port, unless you run it stand-alone.

As you can see the EFIKA is a perfect fit for a low-end OS such as
AmigaOS 4.0 or MorphOS. Neither of them demands anything from
the hardware. There's not much overhead anywhere which of course
will change when the OS'es get more features.

In their current states they will run just fine on the 400 MHz MPC5200.

@ironfist

I agree. OS4 would run great on the EFIKA.

I would imagine that the developments with the Amiga Inc. q & a make this possibilty far more remote.

I think the EFIKA would do well if it ran Linux, MOS and AROS. I would definitely be interested in the AROS one!

@Samwel

Quote:

What use would a desktop user have with a embedded (really slow) board?

The same use like my Classic currently has, or that I would make out of an AmigaOne or Pegasos (if I just had one): A nice, little, obscure, geeky toy that is fun to use.

Agreed, it's a bit slower than an AmigaOne or a Pegasos 2, but still, it's a hell of a lot faster than my BPPC. Come on, the apps that you will use on an Efika, an AmigaOne or a Pegasos 2 won't be _that_ different! Yes, maybe you can render faster, or watch the occasional DVD on the latter two, but that's it basically.

It's not performance that currently limits the usage you can make out of the system, it's rather a lack of proffesional software. So, looking forward to have at least a CSS-capable browser running on MOS soon!

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@polka.

And the slowest possible "desktop" board will get us all those professional softwares?

This was the same on classics back in the early 90's. Most people bought A500/A600/1200.
Most people didn't even upgrade the CPU. Those that did mostly went for 030.
Because of that the professional software market never evolved. Every piece of software
could still run on the slowest possible Amiga. Thus not pressing the features to become
more advanced. I see the problem happening again. We have boards that are 4-5 times
slower than a PC, why go back to 8-10 times slower?

Again this can't all be because the price? I mean Efika isn't really cheap is it?
299$ for its relative perfomance. Where are all the pro x86 people now that ALWAYS
complained about A1's speed?

Again I stress the point that it's a GREAT board for embedded use. For which the board
often has a single task to do and where its relatively slow CPU performance will suffice.

I think ACK is making PowerVixxen with that CPU because most classic user wouldn't
have payed for a more expensive card. Simple as that. One other thing is that there's
no better PowerPC SoC at this time.

You always hear that there's no point in getting better hardware because nothing will
use it anyway. So if nobody gets better hardware then no more advanced software will
be made. See the circle?

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@vision

Quote:

I think you don´t even believe yourself, but you try to convince yourself and all your blue partners that you can live without Amiga and it is not your reference and holy grail. But in the deepest part of your mind, your heart and your soul, YOU KNOW YOU CAN´T.

Maybe the most annoying feature in the Amiga community is that they think they are center of the universe.

Quote:

But they would certainly sell a lot more if one day they could achieve that, cause the Amiga community would buy them in huge amounts (I am speaking about probably +10.000 units).

There are only 2000-3000 Amiga users left who do not own an A1 or Peg. Many of those are not interested in neo Amiga and many of those have Amithlon or WinUAE. TroikaNG, Samantha or Peg/OS4 would/will sell only about max 100-200 units/year. You can compute how many boards each reseller must sell to get 200/y target.

To produce 10000+ units they probably dont have capital.

Quote:

Have a lot more developers creating programs and applications to make their machines become something interesting to buy.

There isnt such developer resource available. Only existing software and their developer, like AmigaAMP developer perhaps. Potential developers coming outside of this community dont know how to code for Amiga.

Quote:

I think this isn´t happening before because Eyetech and Amiga hate BBRV with all their soul (and they have their reasons, so I kind of support them).

Yep, Eyetech selling mA1 without AmigaOne license was big mistake and we know what happened to Eyetech

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

Quote:

Seehund wrote: @Atheist Quote: Atheist wrote: No matter how you look at it, bb's trying to get AOS4.0 to sell his product (a motherboard) with no obligations whatsoever on his part TO AOS4.0. Whether it lives or dies, he couldn't give a rats ass. Hardware does not need AOS4 to sell. Hardware vendors do not give a rat's ass about AOS4. Hardware vendors have no obligations to AOS4, and have no rational business reason to take any such obligations upon them. AOS4 is dependent on hardware and hardware vendors. Hardware and hardware vendors are not dependent on AOS4. The compulsory hardware licensing scheme is constructed from a weird alternate view on reality, where things are the opposite of what I just described. That is why AOS4 is dead, dead, dead, unless the scheme is canned.

To: the genius that is "Seehund",
Quote:

ironfist wrote: from post #425 Very interesting statement considering they sell 40-50 complete ODW's per week. For a small company, selling an obscure plat- form as the ODW, I really think those numbers are great. Re- member that the ODW is a few years old..

Let's see, the bigger amount is 50, * 52 weeks == 2600

Now, if Hyperion Entertainment HAD ported AOS4.0 to peg2, how many copies of AOS4.0 would have been in users hands?
50, * 52 weeks == BIG FAT zero!
Equating to BIG FAT zero $!

Boy, that would make for happy programmers. NOT!

Go to university and sign up for business classes, and come back in 3 or 4 years after you've learned something about something.

Amiga Inc. and Hyperion Entertainment ARE NOT in a position to MAKE HW for Amigans, therfore, their desire is to get a deal where a one-to-one ratio for AOS4.x is the norm.

Anything less than that is suicide, and I agree with that stance.... And $4.50 from a Sony PS3 install, on all sold gamesystems, would be bogus too. A FULL OS for $4.50? Outrageous, considering the truely utter crap microsoft has sold to countless billions, calling itself fraudulently an "OS". (It doesn't work as advertised, it doesn't work at all.)

If it's NOT sold one-to-one NOBODY is going to look it up later, as a "possible add-on". Only people "in the know" will and that's NOT good enough.

Heck, I said I'd pirate it, if it's done that way.

Why? Well, "look at that guy over there".

Quote:

Quote: If AOS4.0 is not coupled with his MB, if sales of AOS are 10% of his MB output, he don't care. Of course not. He's a hardware vendor. Let's use your numbers: He has no reason to go after 10% when he can go after the other 90% (or 100%, if the licensing scheme was canned). No vendor that matters wants to pay money and take on extra obligations for "10%" AmigaOS customers. If PPC weren't already dead on the desktop and Apple still developed new PPC Macs (the frigging obvious option for any PPC desktop OS), those "10%" would be closer to 0.01% for them.

And, you keep asking why bbrv has no license????

HE DOESN'T WANT A LICENSE.

He just wants it to WORK ON PEGS!

Let Hyperion worry about making a buck or two, and being there tomorrow, or should I say even, till this evening???

Quote:

AmigaOS is the loser today, not hardware vendors.

So why are you, bbrv and the other trollers over here crying about what WE are doing, and concerned about?

If our boat is going to sink, leave us be, at least.

Quote:

And that's not the fault of independent hardware vendors who obviously act in their own interests, and will always do so. They're businesses (hopefully), not charities for a vanishing number of people who hold delusions about "new Amigas".

Well, Hyperion Entertainment, or rather, Amiga Inc. isn't interested in dealing with them then.

Quote:

Quote: That is a joke, and Amiga cannot survive. Amiga probably need a revenue stream to survive. AmigaOS sales could generate a revenue stream,

Yup, of a big fat $0. (See above.)

Quote:

for both AInc and Hyperion. Now they've made it nearly impossible to sell AmigaOS at all. If you're talking about Amiga-the-computer, that died in 1994. That's why we're (supposed to be) getting AmigaOS4, which is meant to run on 3rd party hardware since there are no more Amigas.

You've told me your thoughts 1,000 times, and I've told you the same answer back every time, so, how many more times are you going to say what you have to say again???

Quote:

itix wrote: @vision Quote: I think you don´t even believe yourself, but you try to convince yourself and all your blue partners that you can live without Amiga and it is not your reference and holy grail. But in the deepest part of your mind, your heart and your soul, YOU KNOW YOU CAN´T. Maybe the most annoying feature in the Amiga community is that they think they are center of the universe.

Hi itix,

If it were'nt, I'd just use winxp and shut up about it.

I WOULD say macOSx, but there are a bazillion more games for windross.
Quote:

Quote: But they would certainly sell a lot more if one day they could achieve that, cause the Amiga community would buy them in huge amounts (I am speaking about probably +10.000 units). There are only 2000-3000 Amiga users left who do not own an A1 or Peg. Many of those are not interested in neo Amiga and many of those have Amithlon or WinUAE. TroikaNG, Samantha or Peg/OS4 would/will sell only about max 100-200 units/year. You can compute how many boards each reseller must sell to get 200/y target. To produce 10000+ units they probably dont have capital.

I have to agree with the +10,000 number.

What? They could never sell 10,000+ because they don't have enough cash? You mean they can't sell 600 to 1,200, buy more supplies, sell 600 to 1,200 more and so on, until they reach 10,000+??? That's strange.

@Atheist

Quote:

You mean they can't sell 600 to 1,200, buy more supplies, sell 600 to 1,200 more and so on, until they reach 10,000+??? That's strange.

Selling 600 boards takes an eternity. Amiga resellers cant suck so many boards in one go.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

itix:
Correct, that's why GGS-Data and probably the rest
only buy 5-10 boards each time.. Way too much
capital to tie up in buying a hundred.

@Atheist

Quote:

What? They could never sell 10,000+ because they don't have enough cash? You mean they can't sell 600 to 1,200, buy more supplies, sell 600 to 1,200 more and so on, until they reach 10,000+??? That's strange.

The question is not even if they could _sell_ them, but merely if the can _build_ them and _develop_ them. This is the point when the majority of capital is usually spend.
Funding and lack of investors is a serious issue in a rather unprofitable niche market such as this. The only way that I see to make some profits, sell a reasonable amount of units and attract some -serious- investors is to not only target the Amiga market, thus (hello Atheist!) no having a fixed 1:1 ratio.
But keep on dreaming about IBuM buying Amiga Inc., Hyperion and Troika for 100 Billion Dollars and pushing the Amiga platform so that Windross is dead by 2010.

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@Atheist

Quote:

(...) Anything less than that is suicide, and I agree with that stance.... And $4.50 from a Sony PS3 install, on all sold gamesystems, would be bogus too. A FULL OS for $4.50? Outrageous, considering the truely utter crap microsoft has sold to countless billions, calling itself fraudulently an "OS". (It doesn't work as advertised, it doesn't work at all.) (...)

Repeating the same crap over and over again doesn't make it to smell better nor make you seem to be more inteligent...

Last edited by pixie on 18-Sep-2006 at 11:13 AM.

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