@falemagn

Quote:

I couldn't live without MP and VM

I couldn´t live without responsiveness, MP and VM are only buzzwords.
Windows has memory protection and in fact crash more often than my miggy.At the end what is important is that a system be stable and less important is what makes the system stable.
Virtual memory? i prefer virtual memory on demand, if a app need more memory i prefer a requester than says not enough memory and decide if is worth enable virtual memory as using HD as memory slowdown the system.

Is scary that the marketing machinery has made their job very well, and has made people believe in the GHZ, buzzwords and in the "big is better".Even has convinced a few Amigans that knew that not all is MHZ.Sirs this is the Amiga, you don´t need 3 GHZ only to be able to open a window

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No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@yak

Quote:

And the "cheap" is very important now

Cheap often it is interpreted like low quality, so be careful cheap hardware is a weapon of double edge

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@hatschi

Quote:

Because a G5 would most possibly run much hotter than a Core 2 Duo?

I was referring to the fact that the new Intel-based MacBooks get much hotter than the older PPC-based ones. G5 is not designed as a mobile processor, although there are low-power G5 chips as well (21W peak @ 1.6GHz) they won't compete with the Core/Core2 CPUs for power consumption. The intel core chips are impressive, although the MPC8641D will be hard to beat with 15-25W typical for CPU+DDR2+PCIE controller together at 2GHz.

Last edited by COBRA on 27-Oct-2006 at 10:44 AM.

@Benji

Quote:

Benji wrote: @Carl-S Here is the strange thing - ask someone if they would spend $50 on OS4 for x86 or $500 on a complete PPC board in a case with OS4...

Why couldn't you have a $500 complete x86 motherboard in a case with OS4?

No x86 please, just not that. Its not Amiga and it wont do any good now.



Regards,
Michal, editor of Amitopia, www.amitopia.net & www.radionitro.net

_________________
Regards,
Michal, Amiga user since 1988
amitopia@gmail.com

@COBRA


How quickly people forget...

I went from 12" PowerBook to MacBook and the outside of the machine is much, much cooler. Of course this also has to do with the case not being aluminium, but the cpu's regular use temperature was about the same.

Right now my cpu is 43c - a couple of degrees lower than the PowerBook would have been with the same amount of stuff going on.

@Fransexy

Quote:

I couldn´t live without responsiveness, MP and VM are only buzzwords.

It's funny how in certain places reality can be seen upside down, isn't it? In my book, the buzzword there is "responsiveness", certainly not Memory Protection and Virtual Memory. MP and VM have well precise definitions and meaning, so much that they are, and have been for the past 30 years, subject of study in any course of computer science. Responsiveness, on the other hand, is a fuzzy unit of measure, everyone could give it a subjective meaning and its scale isn't standardized by any means. Not that I have anything against fuzzy logic, but it just doesn't apply that well in certain contextes, this being one of them.

Quote:

Windows has memory protection and in fact crash more often than my miggy.At the end what is important is that a system be stable and less important is what makes the system stable.

Haven't had one single crash of windows since the days of Windows 98 (and even then, they were mostly due to faulty drivers). On the other hand, I only need to run a web browser or two to get AmigaOS down on its knees.

For a developer, VM and MP are a must, it's unthinkable for me to go back to the days in which I coded for AmigaOS, where any mistakes I did in my program would transform itself into an instant reboot or render the whole system unstable. For an user, MP and VM mean that the system is never going to be brought down by malicious or faulty applications (leaving out issues with the MP and VM systems themselves, of course) and that the letter I'm writing in the word processor isn't going to be overwritten by the music player that has gone nuts.

I'd say these are pretty basic requirements that any users of any other semi-modern OS out there takes for granted. AmigaOS4 will never make a dent out of its current minuscule market if it doesn't gain full memory protection and full support for virtual memory. Not on the desktop anyway. And this is not just my opinion, it's also the opinion of the people who are coding AmigaOS4, who have to say on the matter that they cannot find "few good reasons why a MacOS or Windows user should use AmigaOS, regardless of the hardware platform".

Of course, any other means to achieve the same results that MP and VM give is ok with me, but that usually means limiting the OS to execute only programs written in some sort of "safe" language.

Quote:

Virtual memory? i prefer virtual memory on demand, if a app need more memory i prefer a requester than says not enough memory and decide if is worth enable virtual memory as using HD as memory slowdown the system.

Virtual memory doen't mean swappable memory, those concepts are not even interdependent, they're rather orthogonal to each other: you can have either of them without having by force the other one.

Quote:

Is scary that the marketing machinery has made their job very well, and has made people believe in the GHZ, buzzwords and in the "big is better".Even has convinced a few Amigans that knew that not all is MHZ.Sirs this is the Amiga, you don´t need 3 GHZ only to be able to open a window.

Sir, you can't talk like that to me, I'm probably the last man on earth who's going to buy any buzzwords. I simply happen to know my way around computing, and know what I'm talking about, for reasons that I don't feel compelled to enumerate here.

Last edited by falemagn on 27-Oct-2006 at 11:12 AM.
Last edited by falemagn on 27-Oct-2006 at 11:10 AM.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@Trezzer

Maybe you had this?

The reviews I read about the MacBook Pro's stated that it's considerably hotter than the PowerBooks, but their performance was considerably better too.

@AmiDelf2

I am afully sorry, but an AmigaOne isn't an Amiga either, so why bother whether it is X86 or PPC.

The only difference is, hardware is much cheaper ;) Still u can put that in a custom case an stamp Amiga on it if you want to.

(By the way, "real" Amiga has custom chips and lovely names for them )

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@Hannibal_Smith

Quote:

Hannibal_Smith wrote: @evilrich I agree with you at the notion that GHz and GHz of raw power is not needed. However x86 is much more than how much raw computational power would be available or even how much bang per buck you can get. It’s about actual cost, availability and future security. * No more needing to source exotic and expensive memory modules. * No more relying on tin-pot companies operating out of a shed somewhere. * No more ‘we need x orders to get the price down’ * Tried and tested technology. * Real choice. We’ve been down this PPC road for 5 years now, and there seems to be no progress and no light at the end of the tunnel. Had IBM got motherboard manufacturers to make PPC varieties like they were trying to a couple of years back, then things might be different. As it stands though, I can’t see AmigaOS even making even minor progress in the future.

Indeed - the argument against x86 is imho irrational, and illogical.

For those who say it needs to be PPC for the embedded markets - Why cant OS 4 run on X86 as well as the embedded markets (ported to xscale, ppc and so on) with the x86 systems being used to develop apps for the ppc systems?

@falemagn

Quote:

As it is now, AOS4 doesn't give me anything that I couldn't get from other operating systems. Rather, it gives me way less than the other systems. I couldn't live without MP and VM

Since this makes it look like AOS4 has neither, I'd just like to point out that:
- the publically available beta already has partial MP (and it is likely that it has been improved in the many months that followed since the release and the work that has been done on the memory system);
- the latest internal betas have been reported to have VM working (I can't tell any details as I'm not a betatester).

Quote:

I couldn't live without MP and VM, for instance, and neither could the majority of users of other operating systems out there.

I think that many of the users out there would enjoy a lot the Amiga feeling, so they cannot be ruled out as potential customers.

Quote:

I'd buy it just to try it out if it costed less than, say, 50 EUR, though. So "no, never" isn't an accurate answer to the poll.

"Maybe eventually" would have been accurate, and would have made your post look much less provocative.

saimo

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RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@Carl-S

Quote:

Carl-S wrote: Sometimes a specific test case provides better insight than an abstract definition. So, here is a test question. What if: 1. Amiga OS 4 ran on a modern PC box/laptop, and 2. Classic Amiga apps and games emulated "perfectly" on that same box. How would you feel about that? How many people here would use it immediately? How many of us would be building new applications, new games, porting over good software, selling PC/OS4 packages, integrating new hardware, putting OS4 into schools, and ... you get the idea... How many would still wait for PPC hardware? So, that's the razor. You decide.

Dear Carl, I already did all the above statements. I got a Pegasos with MorphOS.

I am just waiting for AmigaOS to run on my machine.

So if your questions are about to port it even on Pegasos hardware, then fell free to do and release it dam*d quick soon.

Or perhaps are you talking of the "MYTHICAL" italian "Project Moana"?

(Which seems, from rumors, it should perform at the Speed of Light, invincible, untouchable, unbreakable, unstoppable?)

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

AmigaOS on X86

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retired

@Raffaele

>Or perhaps are you talking of the "MYTHICAL" italian "Project Moana"?

(Which seems, from rumors, it should perform at the Speed of Light, invincible, untouchable, unbreakable, unstoppable?)

What the hell are you talking about?

More info...please

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@TheDaddy

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retired

@Fransexy

Quote:

Windows has memory protection and in fact crash more often than my miggy

Userland application's crash shouldn't take out the OS.

Quote:

Is scary that the marketing machinery has made their job very well, and has made people believe in the GHZ, buzzwords and in the "big is better"

Actually, "thin-n-light" is better i.e. laptops. Haven't you been keeping with laptop unit sales growth vs desktop unit sales growth thrends?

Pure Ghz marketing is obsolete in Intel’s Core 2 era i.e. Ghz and IPC.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

Quote:

COBRA wrote: @hatschi Quote: Because a G5 would most possibly run much hotter than a Core 2 Duo? I was referring to the fact that the new Intel-based MacBooks get much hotter than the older PPC-based ones. G5 is not designed as a mobile processor, although there are low-power G5 chips as well (21W peak @ 1.6GHz) they won't compete with the Core/Core2 CPUs for power consumption.

Factor in power curve vs clockspeed.

IBM's 945 (northbridge)'s TDP wattage is not compititive enough against ATI's RD580 TDP wattage.

Against Intel, both IBM and Freescale are not just competing with just CPU i.e. Intel’s GMA X3000 IGP (roughly on par with AMD’s old Radeon X300 Linux OpenGL).

Quote:

The intel core chips are impressive, although the MPC8641D will be hard to beat with 15-25W typical for CPU+DDR2+PCIE controller together at 2GHz.

Is MPC8641D available for sale?

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@AmigaBlitter

Are you joking or just cheeky

And what's that screenshot?

Edit: Just seen the wincustomize thing.....for a moment I thought....ARGH!

Last edited by TheDaddy on 27-Oct-2006 at 11:51 AM.

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@AmigaBlitter

Looks similar to my WinUAE/AmiKit (customized)/AmigaOS 3.9 68K desktop.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@COBRA

No, I didn't have that problem.

Also note I said MacBook versus PowerBook. Not MacBook Pro. :)
Same processor though.