@takemehomegrandma
Quote:

It is all about people, all about *community*. They are here to *support* the community! It's all about creating momentum for a unique platform. About supporting creativity and developers.

Our community has been through hell and we still believe this kind of stuff. Wow. We are a lot further gone than I ever imagined.

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

@ironfist

Quote:

ironfist wrote: Darrin "I don't want to see people rushing out to buy an Efika only to run Linux for the next 5 years." Hehe! You mean like everyone did with the AmigaONE? :P

Sorry to disappoint you, but no Linux running here, just a sweet install of OS4, running fine and dandy through all the updates without a single issue....EVER!

The efika, nice as it is, just isn't powerful enough to interest me, the other future HW talked about a month or so ago would interest me though.

_________________

@ssolie

Not really. It's all just feel-good marketing BS aimed at selling Efikas.

L8-X:
I'm happy for you then. I suppose you bought your AmigaONE very
late then, or just let it collect dust until AmigaOS 4.0 Pre-release 1
was released..

@bbrv

Quote:

@AmigaHeretic That reminds me of why we usually ignore your posts. We never said that. Post a link here if you can.

I haven't found any claims of ownership, only claims that the contract should grant sublicense to Thendic for AmigaDE which Genesi claimed also covered AmigaOS4. There was a plan outlined to void Amiga Inc's agreement with Hyperion which Genesi would take over and relicense Hyperion to continue work on OS4. While your wording was of the sublicense variety, the tone was that you were going to be in control of things much like the true owner "should be" in control of it, and would have more control than Amiga Inc. did over their own product.

http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/98063.shtml

But apparently the judge in the original lawsuit
disagreed that Amiga OS4 was included as part of the AmigaDE license agreement.

My concern is that if this is successfully implemented to the point of voiding the agreement between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion, that thre will not be any such thing as OS4. In your comment linked to just above you say it will exist. But have you taken into consideration there the fact that Hyperion, under the authority granted to them by the Amiga Inc. agreement, has made numerous agreements with numerous independent developers? If you void the agreement with AI, you also void the authority to make such agreements with those numerous developers, and thus their work is no longer "part of" OS4, because they in effect have no contract for that. What happens to Petunia? What happens to Picasso96? What happens to the kernel? What happens to the Radeon driver? What happens to......? You'll need to renegotiate all of these other agreements to put OS4 back together into what we've seen of it in the prereleases. Hyperion does not own much that stuff themselves, the individual developers do.


I don't think that Amiga is all in the right, as I do remember the DE being originally talked about as having two modes, one hosted by a foreign operating system and the other as a self-suficient environment providing it's own operating system features. That second one never happened. They played games. The
agreement in section 2 clearly indicates DE is licensed for "... as well as other products in Thendic's product line, including future products". Without getting into any debate whether Efika is a "Thendic product", this clearly is not limited to the CashBoy or SmartBoy products of the day.

But none of that nonsense puts Amiga OS4 rights in what the judge
granted to Genesi in that trial. From what I can find in the agreement, section 3.1 "Definitions", there are two terms of interest to your using
Fleecy's email to John Burgess as proof that OS4 is DE and thus should be included in your judgement (but remember that the final ruling denied that particular claim)

Quote:

"Enhancements": shall mean changes or improvements made by Amiga, any of its agents or affiliates, or any other party to the Amiga DE Operating System so as to achieve its integration with any Thendic product (billt's emphasis) "Derivative Work": shall mean with respect to a software program or any related Documentation (as hereinafter defined), any modifications thereof including without limitation all "derivative works" and "compilations," within the meaning of such terms as defined by the US Copyright Act (17 USC p101 et seq.) as amended

The first term could be interpreted to be specifically limited to any modifications directly related to making AmigaDE function on "Thendic products" and nothing else. The second term is much more open. But in what way is Amiga OS4 derived from AmigaDE? Seriously. It's not. The "Tapul email" claims Amiga Inc. owns OS4. We know that a number of features are actually owned by their respective individual developers, not by Amiga Inc. and not by Hyperion. Any false claims in that should not apply to Genesi's case though, that would be a legal matter between KMOS and Tapul. But any lies about OS4 that AI may have told to Tapul don't have much to do with their agreement with Genesi. The Tapul email also claims that AI is interested in licensing OS4 to any hardware, but the actual actions of AI contradict that as well.

I also find it ironic that you once stated:

He twisted his "agreement" into something that was not what it was to become something it should not have been. You are not supposed to do that when you sign an agreement like this.

http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/98376.shtml

As it seems Genesi took a contract granting a license to a product named "Amiga DE" and trying to twist that into also granting the same rights to a different and unrelated product named "Amiga OS4" which is not named, specified, or mantioned in any context. I consider it different and unrelated as I'm not aware of any DE compatibility or support of any kind in the "Amiga OS4" product I've seen and used and developed for. Whatever that email you had from Fleecy that talked about AmigaOS and AmigaDE merging into a single product obviously has never happened. What does the future actually hold for 4.2? I don't know. I'll be very suprised if it includes any AmigaDE support or compatibility of any kind. I really don't see any point in that today.

edit: OS4.2/DE combo email was to John Burgess not to Tapul

Last edited by billt on 12-Dec-2006 at 11:35 PM.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@ironfist

I'm happy your happy.

No I didn't buy it for Linux (although some people might have but I still can't see why that would be soooo laughable?).

It was bought for OS4 and OS4 only. I knew I'd be waiting a little for the first version of os4 to come up but I knew it was coming and bought it to ensure I had the HW and wouldn't miss out like so many have, so in my case it was mission accomplished.

_________________

@ironfist and thread-
Stop the baiting/trolling, or it will be stopped for you.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@bbrv (from post #34) who said Quote:

Well, it can certainly run like this:

An Efika running a VNC client, so that you can remote-control OS X (etc), is hardly the same as the Efika actually running OS X. Hell, many smart phones & PDAs can run VNC clients, but no-one goes claiming that any of them are actually running OS X.

And it certainly don't solve the OS4 hardware problem - you still need some real OS4 hardware on which to run the VNC server.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@takemehomegrandma

Well, you misunderstood me a bit. Of course you can call it 'possibilities'. But in the end only sales are counting. And the more possibilities (read: OSes, options, applications, #?) the more sales. Its simple as that.

A sale is welcome as long as the effort to initiate it is not higher than the benefit gained through that sale. That is business rule #1 (but mind, that you must calculate *many* (complex) things into that gained benefit, not only the short term monetary profit).

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@saimo

Quote:

Amiga Inc. has behave fraudulently. Your behaviour, on the other hand, is so honest and clear. You are here again trying to make the Amiga crowd believe that AOS4 is (part of) AmigaDE: AOS4 (for now) has nothing to do with the AmigaDE. You perfectly know that.

Oh yeah?

Last edited by redrumloa on 13-Dec-2006 at 04:17 AM.

_________________
Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver 2002"
800Mhz, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon 8500
MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

@L8-X

Quote:

L8-X wrote: @ironfist Quote: ironfist wrote: Darrin "I don't want to see people rushing out to buy an Efika only to run Linux for the next 5 years." Hehe! You mean like everyone did with the AmigaONE? :P Sorry to disappoint you, but no Linux running here, just a sweet install of OS4, running fine and dandy through all the updates without a single issue....EVER! The efika, nice as it is, just isn't powerful enough to interest me, the other future HW talked about a month or so ago would interest me though.

I was an original day one AmigaOne-SE preorder holder. I held my pre-order for 18 months while no boards were available and finally gave up. After I gave up OS4 beta was not available to buyers for at least an additional ~2.5years. I'd have to do research to figure out the exact time from the time A1-SE were made for preorder and when OS4 beta was available to board holders, but certainly it must have been at least nearly 4 years.

_________________
Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver 2002"
800Mhz, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon 8500
MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

@redrumloa

The first OS4 prerelease came in June 2004.
The first A1-SE came, I think, in the beginning of 2003 or at the earliest late 2002.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

@Thread

Please keep on topic!

Thank you.

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

@ssolie

Quote:

ssolie wrote: @takemehomegrandma Quote: It is all about people, all about *community*. They are here to *support* the community! It's all about creating momentum for a unique platform. About supporting creativity and developers. Our community has been through hell and we still believe this kind of stuff. Wow. We are a lot further gone than I ever imagined.

The support Genesi is giving to various communities is very real and factual, and not imaginary in any way. All you need to do in order to see this is to open your eyes.

@L8-X

Quote:

The efika, nice as it is, just isn't powerful enough to interest me, the other future HW talked about a month or so ago would interest me though.

IMHO, the strengths of the Amiga is its leanness; that it can run *fine* on Efika-style hardware (or even lower specced HW). IMHO, this is where Amiga can find its future.

@CodeSmith

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote: @ssolie Not really. It's all just feel-good marketing BS aimed at selling Efikas.

Well, here is another one that seems to fully believe that it's all about selling a few hundred motherboards to the Amiga community. Like a few hundred Efika sales would make any kind of difference in their bank account. Like a few hundred sales would be their goal. I'll tell you, if it would have been about selling a few hundred Efikas to developer communities, they wouldn't saturate that "market" (cough cough) by giving a few hundred away *for free*.

@billt

All that is your own interpretations. Many of us are hobby "armchair lawyers" when it comes to analyzing this issue, and many of us seems to have the need to do so. But in the end it doesn't matter what you or me thinks or believes. It doesn't matter what you or me can make out of the court documents and the history behind them.

BBRV seems to be very confident about their case. Maybe they are right, and maybe this could be a way of finally providing hardware (and a future) for OS4. All we can do is wait and see, it doesn't matter how many interpretations of what happened we post here.

@Zylesea

Quote:

Well, you misunderstood me a bit. Of course you can call it 'possibilities'. But in the end only sales are counting.

My guess is that sales in the hundreds are hardly worth counting at all. The "markets" they are targeting now, are developer intense ones. But not to make money from them (rather the opposite). They are *seeding* now, and I think they do this with the hopes of being able to *harvest* something later, but not from some individuals in the Amiga/Linux communities, but from future deals like this.

Quote:

A sale is welcome as long as the effort to initiate it is not higher than the benefit gained through that sale. That is business rule #1 (but mind, that you must calculate *many* (complex) things into that gained benefit, not only the short term monetary profit).

Of course every sale is welcome. It helps covering the costs of bringing the boards out of the door, if for no other reason. Freescale sponsors the developer program that is starting right now. Technically, Genesi sells these boards to Freescale but ships them to the developers. When this fixed number of boards are shipped, they will have to sell them directly to the users/developers. The boards must bear their own cost, but I still doubt they are trying to get rich from individual sales to these kind of communities. That can't possibly be what it's all about.

The Efika is an evaluation motherboard. It can be used for developing lean SW applications, OS's and prototyping hardware devices that can derive from this platform. Maybe some business cases can build on the Efika as it is, maybe some will require a slightly altered motherboard with a different shape and form and different specification. Maybe some would benefit from this or this? In any case, I can only see the Efika as a first step, and scattered individual sales of it to developer communities will of course be welcome (since it will increase the future possibilities) but hardly their goal.

@takemehomegrandma

Kindly explain to me then why you believe that bbrv pokes his head in once every couple of weeks with a status report on OS4 on the Efika. I mean, why bother? it's only a few hundred motherboards, right?

I have a suspicion that bbrv has a definite marketing plan for his boards, which may or may not involve OS4, and you have absolutely no clue what it is. Bbrv has shown himself to be a very good marketer, and he seems interested in this market, while you're just dismissing it out of hand. Excuse me if I have more trust in the guy that has sold several thousand motherboards and complete systems, than on the guy who just shoots his mouth off in fora.

@takemehomegrandma

That support is to be applauded but in no way is it related to AOS4. This whole thread is very sad. Why do we constantly go over the same ground, the HW and systems are different, similar but different and until the commercial parties involved get together and seriously nut out their problems all this discussion means NOTHING and only serves to divide people who would otherwise get on great and have abeer together at a bar.

All nonsense.

ace