@MikeB

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I view the PC and XBox 360 as two different platorm, so I won't combine the XBox and PC market as being one, they are competing with eachother.

Exactly. They're two different markets like I said

@MikeB

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They sold 70,000 copies of Blue Dragon in the first week. Also interesting to note that 27,000 of those were bundled with new XBox 360s for $256!

80348 actually. Oddly enough placing it way above Zelda: TP.

Last edited by Trezzer on 14-Dec-2006 at 10:55 PM.

@Trezzer

If they are two completely different markets they wouldn't compete at all. With the PS3 having good keyboard and mouse support, the console potentially penetrates a market segment traditionally owned by the PC and to a much smaller extend the Mac, and in a distant past, of course by the Amiga and Atari ST.

The PS3 is the first console I consider a potential challenge for this market segment.

@MikeB

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If they are two completely different markets they wouldn't compete at all. With the PS3 having good keyboard and mouse support, the console potentially penetrates a market segment traditionally owned by the PC and to a much smaller extend the Mac, and in a distant past, of course by the Amiga and Atari ST.

IMO I think the PS3 does more harm to the Mac and other Linux options then the Vista computers. If you want a Unix home machine you could have a MacMini or for about the same amount of money a PS3 w/ Linux. The PS3 comes with better video, Blur-Ray, and many more games then the Mac. Also, it seems the PS3 may be headed a direction to compete with the upcoming Mac iTV. Could Apple be harmed by not having a gaming console? Possibly. It'll be interesting to see play out over the next couple of years.

@MikeB

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With the PS3 having good keyboard and mouse support, the console potentially penetrates a market segment ....

Don't forget that games need to support it directly.

The 360 has USB ports and you can hook up any old USB keyboard to it and use it out of the box. I'm sure a mouse driver would be no problem. But just like on PS3 it's unlikely that many if any games will ever support it simply because unless controls are *very* fine-tuned it wouldn't work with joypads vs mouse on the same platform. It would simply not be fair to whichever one happens to have the most advantageous configuration.

I know of one company working on this for a game that's going to have online multiplayer between 360s and PCs. They're fairly happy with it so far, but let's wait and see what the average player says when it comes out. It will be interesting.

@Trezzer

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I know of one company working on this for a game that's going to have online multiplayer between 360s and PCs. They're fairly happy with it so far, but let's wait and see what the average player says when it comes out. It will be interesting.

Besides the Marvel Super Heroes MMORP?

@BrianK

The Mac games market is already minuscule, I don't think the PS3 will make much of a difference in this regard. People generally don't buy Macs because of the games, however quite a few people did buy PCs because of the games (or internet usage, another interesting PS3 feature). Whole groups of people bought new or upgraded PCs just to play games like Doom, Quake and Half-life in their full glory.

@BrianK

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If you want a Unix home machine you could have a MacMini or for about the same amount of money a PS3 w/ Linux.

A Mac Mini indeed costs almost as much, but on the other hand you get a mature OS with usability in focus.

PS3 isn't the only machine that can have Bluray incorporated though. Remember Apple are usually one of the first companies on the block to support new media and they're (sadly) on Bluray's side.

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Could Apple be harmed by not having a gaming console?

... or would it directly harm them because profit margins are slim?

I'm thinking they'd rather edge themselves into the living room through iPods and their online store. So far it seems to be working quite well and the combination of the iTV/Macs/360s is a fair bit more flexible than having just a PS3. Yeah, it's more expensive, but people won't be using a PS3 as their only computer any time soon. Linux just isn't mature as a desktop OS - even if zealots will try to tell you otherwise. For servers : fine. For some regular desktop usage: fine too. But these days computers are just as much about creativity... making music, videos etc. and there's just nothing on Linux that handles this well enough. With the usual speed of OSS development I'm guessing we'll start to see some almost-theres in 3-4 years.

Feel free to agree, but there's also the minor thing that Sony has a problem which Apple doesn't: Mindshare is very much against them these days compared to Apple. The "halo effect" (shouldn't that really be exclusive to Xbox? ) has proven effective and Apple has positive buzz while Sony generally manages to get a negative image.

@BrianK

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Besides the Marvel Super Heroes MMORP?

Ah, so that has it too. That's interesting. Is it action-based?

@Trezzer

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Quote: Besides the Marvel Super Heroes MMORP? Ah, so that has it too. That's interesting. Is it action-based?

It was announced Cryptic Studioes, the company that makes City of Heroes, signed with Microsoft and Marvel to do their MMOG and it'd be accessible on Live via PC and 360.

From an interview shortly after the announcement:
We're announcing today a fantastic partnership with Cryptic Studios and Marvel to create the Marvel MMO. It will be on Xbox 360 and on Windows and will feature cross-platform seamless simultaneous play, which we believe is unprecedented...
What I can talk about is the fact that we have access to the entire Marvel universe. So from 1940 on, the characters, the storylines, the places, the people--it's all at our disposal, and believe me we're going to mine it for all it's worth. ...
PC version will be VISTA only...

Now they haven't announced a date... (likely 1H 2008). Vista only seems like it might be a problem but considering this game is likely 1.5 years away then a Vista only target isn't that unrealistic. (Well unless of course Vista gets no uptake, which is unlikely)

Related to this was Sony had announced a DC online game for PC and 'next gen consoles'. Typically this sort of announcement is one console version and one PC version. It'll be interesting to see if Sony is ambitous enough to add PCs to the PS3 online gaming offering.

@Trezzer

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A Mac Mini indeed costs almost as much, but on the other hand you get a mature OS with usability in focus.

Apple's online store has the cheapest MacMini at $600 so prices are comparable. The mature OS and mature applications are indeed the draw. For Linux to take off on the PS3 I think they're going to need an application bundle of some sort and go for a consistent interface.

Apple has said Blu-Ray but I believe they are on both boards. Rumors are they're going stealth with a dual HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player .

Apple may well edge into the living room. The 360 is iPod compatible, Microsoft understood this. Will Sony wise up? Atrac again Sony ugh! And yes it seemed Apple dropped their rainbow and now everyone loves them. Plus the 360 matches the white Mac products... hmm....

@BrianK

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Apple's online store has the cheapest MacMini at $600 so prices are comparable.

Yeah. Around here it's about $100 cheaper than what PS3 is expected to cost.

I got to thinking though... considering the benchmarks that have appeared so far (approximately 1.5 GHz G5 performance and all-round you'd be better off with a 1 GHz x86 running Linux) the core duo at 1.66 GHz seems like a much sweeter deal for regular computational tasks for now. The biggest drawback is less graphics power, but hey, that's what consoles are for

@Trezzer

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PS3 isn't the only machine that can have Bluray incorporated though. Remember Apple are usually one of the first companies on the block to support new media and they're (sadly) on Bluray's side.

Sadly in what way? BluRay is a much better product for computers than HD-DVD.
For movies you'll have to factor in alot more stuff, so in that market BluRay isn't such a sure thing. But I guess we all want one HD-movie product rather than multiple solutions and all the problems that gives?
Just look at the DVD-Audio vs. SACD, they both killed off each other in the battle for NG audio format. Sony and Philips just can't accept defeat and continue to release products that doesn't support DVD-Audio even though it's the defacto standard.
I have even seen technical research that says SACD is a worse format, in many ways. But it has stuck somewhat in the states because it was first..

Yes, the price is higher for BluRay today but I'll bet you that will not be the case in 1-2 years from now. Don't you think?
I'll even bet that a BluRay burner won't cost you more than double what you pay for a DVD burner today in 2 years time, and that's cheap. DVD burners are almost given away these days. (I'm talking computer equipment now, not stand alone)

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@Samwel

It's true that Bluray offers more storage, but it's at an expense of more expensive production facilities and thus so far higher prices.

When prices come down eventually I suppose it'll be nice for data storage, but for now I'm mostly on the side of HD-DVD because it seems DRM will be slightly less restrictive. If HD-DVD fails Bluray will most likely take over completely - if there is anything to take over in the home theatre (considering downloads and so on).

Oh, and the name is just plain better too. I mean.. HD-DVD says it all. Bluray... people can't even spell it right.

Last edited by Trezzer on 15-Dec-2006 at 02:16 AM.

@Trezzer

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Don't forget that games need to support it directly.

I don't think that would be much of a problem, just like many PC games can be played with a gamepad as well. Also if some game doesn't include such support by default it could be added later through a game patch.

If you look at the 10 best sold PC games, these games were all best controlled with a mouse and keyboard. Of the alltime 10 best sold games 6 Sony Playstation (2) games are on the list, which can be played on the PS3 as well. IMO the PS3 potentially combines the best of both worlds.

Last edited by MikeB on 15-Dec-2006 at 02:07 PM.

@Trezzer

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Virtua Fighter is "only" the best fighting game in the world. Hands down. That's both from a gameplay perspective and a martial arts afficionado perspective. VF4 Evolution is still *the* fighting game.

I have only played the older versions at the arcades, I can't remember which ones exactly.

I intend to download the 1080P PS3 version of Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection from the PS3 online store. (Screenshots)

I am not yet sure to get Soul Calibur IV, Virtual Fighter 5 or Tekken 6 for the PS3, I will wait for the reviews to decide. How does Virtual Fighter games distinguish themselves in comparison?

@MikeB

Tekken 5 : DR is a solid Tekken game. It's certainly the best game the franchise has seen in years. At the end of the day it's still just Tekken though. You know what you get - every time. For better or for worse.

Soul Calibur is generally a well-balanced series with both beauty and depth. Usually the second game in the series (Soul Calibur) is considered the best when it comes to hitting the perfect balance though.

Virtua Fighter was always the more serious of the fighters - even with the colourful characters. Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution is considered the ultimate fighting game (at least in 3D) by most fans of the genre. The reason is the faithful implementations of the various martial arts, the well-balanced characters and the general level of realism. It also has a high level of fluidity which you'll especially notice with the monk character. He literally flows from one stance to the next. All characters are gorgeously animated, though, and even then it's still an all-round beautiful game - especially for a PS2 title.

Even though it's spent some years in disgrace from the market, it's worth mentioning that the later Mortal Kombat games should not be underestimated. Especially MK: Deception struck a fine balance between the insane MK universe and deep gameplay with various fighting stances for each character that each had advantages over other stances, so you had to switch style on the go to keep the upper hand. While I'm on the subject MK: Shaolin Monks was a very nice mixture of old-fashioned beat 'em up mixed with platforming elements.

Last edited by Trezzer on 15-Dec-2006 at 02:53 PM.

@Trezzer

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Soul Calibur is generally a well-balanced series with both beauty and depth. Usually the second game in the series (Soul Calibur) is considered the best when it comes to hitting the perfect balance though.

Sorry I for one prefer Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast to Soul Calibur II on either the PS2 or Xbox. Haven't tried the Nintendo version of SCII. SCII is good but IMO not as enjoyable as the original. .

@BrianK

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Sorry I for one prefer Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast to Soul Calibur II on either the PS2 or Xbox. Haven't tried the Nintendo version of SCII. SCII is good but IMO not as enjoyable as the original. .

Soul Calibur *is* the second game in the series

@Trezzer

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Gears of War

'Gears of War' has now already sold more than 2 Million copies worldwide, already making it the best selling XBox 360 game to date! I expect more sales for Halo 3 though, IMO too bad they are now part of Microsoft. Bungie Studios once was the most promising MacOS games developing company which offered strong support for the open source / Linux community...