@Trezzer

Currently 123 Blu-ray movies have been released. For HD-DVD there are currently 116 titles released.

Regarding costs, how much would it be worth to you to have the HD-Drive, external adaptor and transformator built into your XBox 360, become more silent and be modified otherwise to better suit the rest of your video setup?

IMO slot drive, Wi-Fi built-in, Flash card reader, bluetooth, etc is cool. An external XBox Wi-Fi adaptor costs about another $97.99.

Last edited by MikeB on 17-Dec-2006 at 12:05 AM.

@BrianK

Quote:

LotR may be HD-DVD only

Walt Disney/Buena Vista is more important to my family.

@Hammer

Quote:

MGM is part of Sony btw.

No, Sony has a 20% stake in the company, but there are larger shareholders.

@MikeB

Quote:

IMO slot drive

No DVD slot loading! Those darn things always scratch the discs.

@MikeB

Refer to http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4428411.stm
"Sony completes MGM takeover bid "

In http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/09/14/BUGQ08OAVA1.DTL

"A consortium led by the Sony Corp. of America has reached a tentative agreement to buy Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer".

Sony’s bid is supported by equity firms and Sony’s strategic partners. To take over a corporation, there are several ways to raise capital.

Last edited by Hammer on 17-Dec-2006 at 12:38 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Dec-2006 at 12:37 AM.

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@MikeB

Quote:

Currently 123 Blu-ray movies have been released. For HD-DVD there are currently 116 titles released.

Amazon has 163 bluray titles of which it can ship 122 at the moment.
It has 157 HD-DVD titles of which it can ship 133 at the moment.

Quote:

Regarding costs, how much would it be worth to you to have the HD-Drive, external adaptor and transformator built into your XBox 360, become more silent and be modified otherwise to better suit the rest of your video setup?

I happen to prefer external power supplies as they can be replaced easily if they break.
As for more silent - it's very quiet while watching movies so that's not an issue. It would be nice if it were more quiet during games, but I'll manage just fine. I expect I might sell my current unit and buy a new one if more silent versions come out (most likely the case). Yes, I realize this is a hit on the bottom line, but it's just my choice.

Quote:

IMO slot drive, Wi-Fi built-in, Flash card reader, bluetooth, etc is cool. An external XBox Wi-Fi adaptor costs about another $97.99.

I don't particularly want wi-fi for it. Especially since I'm considering the XNA Creator's Club and moving code across is much faster with wired ethernet. Flash card reader? Nothing to use it for really. My Mac has my pictures and my 360 shows them over the network - same goes for movies and music. Bluetooth? I suppose it could be useful for some things. I just can't think of something off the top of my head.

I'll give you that the built-in wifi is a nice bonus for those that want it. But you do see where this is going right? Add wifi and HD-DVD drive and we're approaching the PS3 in price even though the average gamer might not be interested in those items at all. By making it a free choice for the indiviual consumer Microsoft is able to sell the basic game box (and forget the friggin' Core because it's ridiculous ) at a much lower price point - and mind you this is while they're making money off the hardware and Sony is taking a huge hit for each machine sold. They are capable of lowering prices as soon as they estimate it will give them a competitive advantage. Sony probably won't be able to for a while.

Quote:

MikeB wrote: Major Blu-ray backers: Apple, Dell, Hitachi, LG Electronics, Miramax, MGM, Mitsubishi Electric, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony (Electronics / Computer Entertainment / Pictures Entertainment), Sun Microsystems, TDK, Thomson, Twentieth Century Fox and Walt Disney. .

Matshita (aka Panasonic) UJ-210S is just a Sony OEM i.e. refer to the Firmware.

Supporting both formats:

LG Electronics
http://www.cyberlink.com/eng/press_room/view_1104.html
"LG Electronics cooperate on HD DVD Notebooks".

http://www.amazon.com/LG-HD-DVD-Player-LGDVB418/dp/B00079VJOU
"LG HD DVD Player (LGDVB418)".

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=16501
"LG to Join HD DVD Camp ".

Samsung
http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/21/samsungs-hd-dvd-blu-ray-combo-player-just-in-case/
"Samsung's HD DVD / Blu-Ray combo player"

Sanyo.

Thomson/RCA
http://news.com.com/Thomson+to+enter+HD+DVD+market/2100-1041_3-5487246.html

Last edited by Hammer on 17-Dec-2006 at 01:29 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Dec-2006 at 01:10 AM.

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@MikeB

Quote:

Walt Disney/Buena Vista is more important to my family.

Yeah but really which will look better in HD Bambi or LotR?

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @wegster Quote: Amusing how everyone else in the thread agrees that the ease of porting being a non-iussue between 360 and PC is good news for both the 360 and PC platforms, which Sony could/should learn from, except for you. Strange where did I state that? Yes I consider seamless binary compatibility being even better (like OS3=>OS4), but please don't make things up...

Give me a break, Mike. Your continued refusal to acknowledge the convergence of 360 and PC markets, and never ending debate over if that makes it 'exclusive' or not, pretty much sums up as I stated above. Do you REALLY want quotes to the effect of your arguments to that effect? Re-read the thread, then.

And, as usual, you then sidestep into a tangent. Binary compatibility's nice, sure, but being able to develop for 360 and PC simultaneously, effectively nearly or 'for free' beats anything going for PS3 from a standpoint of likelihood of seeing PC ports appear with the PS3 version, or of even getting a PS3 version in some cases.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Trezzer

Blu-ray is more likely to "win" the war, 7 out of 8 biggest studios support Blu-ray of which 5 exclusively. There are already more Blu-ray players out there than HD-DVD players, as games will also come distributed on Blu-ray discs and mass production of Sony's PS3 Blu-ray players, due to mass production costs of producing both players and discs will drop dramatically.

Yesterday we went to the cinema to watch Eragon, it made us want to play Factor 5's Lair.

@MikeB

At this point it could still go either way.

Like someone pointed out: Out of the people who bought PS3, it was probably not most of them who wanted it for movie playback. Amazon sales seems to confirm this with the best-selling HD-DVD title ranked 405 and the best-selling Bluray title ranked 1580. Furthermore there are 5 HD-DVD titles in the top 1000 and 0 Bluray titles. 81 HD-DVD titles in top 10000 and 50 Bluray titles.

Both are performing poorly, but I'd say it doesn't look too well for Bluray if we're assuming there are more Bluray players out there (I don't have total numbers).

As for the Eragon movie... I've mostly just heard that it makes children cry because it's that bad. I had a feeling they wouldn't get away with making something near the quality of the book.

Last edited by Trezzer on 17-Dec-2006 at 11:49 AM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 17-Dec-2006 at 11:48 AM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 17-Dec-2006 at 11:46 AM.

@wegster

Quote:

Give me a break

I will, if you want to combine the PC and XBox 360 market as being one that's fine with me, but pesonally II won't, I hope you can respect that as well.

Quote:

develop for 360 and PC simultaneously, effectively nearly or 'for free'

I don't think all Windows and XBox 360 games developers will flock to use Microsoft's XNA toolset. Still it's a nice additional option, so don't try to bent my words.

@MikeB

Quote:

don't think all Windows and XBox 360 games developers will flock to use Microsoft's XNA toolset. Still it's a nice additional option, so don't try to bent my words.

It doesn't really make much sense to not use them, unless you're doing multiplatform stuff or similar from the get go.

@Trezzer

Quote:

I had a feeling they wouldn't get away with making something near the quality of the book.

We haven't read the book. It's not a Lord of the Ring or Pirates of the Caribbean beater, but we liked the movie and we are looking forward to its sequel.

@Trezzer

Quote:

It doesn't really make much sense to not use them, unless you're doing multiplatform stuff or similar from the get go.

"Is XNA just another hobbyist game programming tool, likes others including AMOS and STOS (for the Amiga and Atari ST), or more recently DarkBASIC? There is a range of opinions here. Peter Molyneux enthused to me about XNA, saying it is “a fast, efficient, better language” than earlier more compromised tools, and “built with ambition in mind,” so that XNA programmers can create the next Populous (the game which made Molyneux his fortune).

On the other hand, Molyneux undermined his evangelism by also stating that C++ remains the language of choice for professional development. If this is the case, then XNA will always be a hobbyist niche, which implies that serious students of game programming should not waste too much time on it.

Not everyone takes this line. The Rare team has spent time with XNA and appears genuinely impressed with its capabilities."

We will see who's right and whos not. Microsoft's acquired games company Rare or the more independent XNA presenter Mr Molyneux of Lionhead. We will have to wait and see if future sequals to Xbox best selling exclusives like Gears of War or Halo will be produced using XNA tools.

Last edited by MikeB on 17-Dec-2006 at 12:39 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Blu-ray is more likely to "win" the war, 7 out of 8 biggest studios support Blu-ray of which 5 exclusively. There are already more Blu-ray players out there than HD-DVD players, as games will also come distributed on Blu-ray discs and mass production of Sony's PS3 Blu-ray players, due to mass production costs of producing both players and discs will drop dramatically.

With the advent of the PS3 yes there is now likely more Blu-Ray players. Though the PS3 is a bit of a detriment to the stand-alone market as there are complaints Sony is consuming all the blue laser diodes so they can't ge their players out of the door. We know Sony driven and essentially shipping 90% of players hasn't worked in the past. There's quite a few PSP games out there but UMD movie sales are all but dead outside of Japan. In the US Target, one of the largest retailers dropped UMD movies.

August, I believe, it was found HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray by about 12:1. It'll be interesting to see what impact the PS3 has this Christmas.

Blu-Ray isn't needed for gaming that's simply bunk. 200+ hours of Oblivion on a DVD is one glaring example of what can be done. Blu-Ray is needed because Japanese games tend to include Full Motion Video. Sorry, but FMV is lame you do nothing, it's not gaming it's watching a movie. FMV is to gaming in the 90s what T-tops were to autos in the 80s.

One of the large negatives of Blu-Ray is the stand-alone players do not play DVDs or CDs. I think it's more important for the consumer to include a method to play those older type of discs.

I think the ball is still up in the air on which format will win 2007 besides the console wars coming to a close this generation may well settle the Blu-Ray HD-DVD conflict but I'd bet on 2008 or 9.

EDIT:
Oh and why could a company just not go smaller? UMD is a nice size how about a HD on UMD w/ a player for the home? Wouldn't it be nice to have your future movies and music fit in your pocket?

Last edited by BrianK on 17-Dec-2006 at 02:33 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Sony is consuming all the blue laser diodes so they can't ge their players out of the door

IMO not a big deal this year, it just creates demand and sparks mass production. I think the real high definition war will begin in 2007 and will continue in 2008.

Quote:

Blu-Ray isn't needed for gaming that's simply bunk. 200+ hours of Oblivion on a DVD is one glaring example of what can be done.

Games are going to get more demanding, 1080P movies and games are going to eat up resources. I don't think you can have too much space, for instance if you want to back up your 200GB harddrive it's nice you can do this using fewer discs. If you create high definition home videos, it will be nice you can store them on less disks and view them on your PS3, etc.

Quote:

One of the large negatives of Blu-Ray is the stand-alone players do not play DVDs or CDs.

Sure they can.

"Blu-ray Disc has the same physical characteristics as DVD and CD, and like its predecessors, it also does not require a cartridge. This makes it possible to create Blu-ray Disc products that are backwards compatible with CD and DVD, allowing for a seamless transition to the new technology."

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-13563/Section-13566/Index.html

Quote:

Oh and why could a company just not go smaller? UMD is a nice size how about a HD on UMD w/ a player for the home?

Smaller discs results in less space using identical technology. Compare this with writing on a large piece of paper versus writing on a small piece of paper. Your writings at identical size allows you to write more on a large piece of paper.

@BrianK

Quote:

UMD

UMD has a nice portable size for the PSP and as the PSP can't display high definition video anyway. The display can only handle a 480×272 pixel resolution. True HD has a 1920×1080 pixel resolution, obviously requiring more data storage.

@MikeB

Blu-Ray on the PS3 appears to not be sparking mass production. The main 2 producers of Blu-Ray diodes is Nichia and Sony. Nichia has been experiencing high error rates and consequently slow and under order number shipments. Sony's eating all of it's and 3rd party for the PS3. Sony hopes to ramp up the PS3 and include Europe. Blu-Ray may ramp up but Sony's demand, 6 million PS3s by March, will likely canibalize the market for the next 6 months or more.

Sorry about the Blu-Ray not playing DVD and CDs early ones did not it appears they have fixed that issues.

As for UMD I get the whole big sheet of paper versus little sheet. The 10 hours of features for a 2 hour movie really doesn't persuade me. I was going to buy the movie anyway but yes it's nice for a few movies. I rarely watch that extra stuff.

I want a smaller media. UMD sized would be nice for portibility and storage. It holds 1.8GB vs the DVD 9.8GB. If made w/ a blue laser and better encryption HD and/or more content shouldn't be an issue for a 2 hour movie. Wouldn't it be nice to have a format that fit in your pocket, you could use in a portable player, or car, or home? You got to that point a bit between moving content between your computer and the PS3. But let's add in your hand held player and car system. I'd be happy w/ a 2 hour HD movie on a UMD sized format.

For home systems it is nice to get 50GB of content on 1 disc. Of course currently 2 dual home burnering media is hard to find. It's more expensive to burn Blu-Ray single layer then DVD currently. Hopefully in the next year that cost will go down.
Blu-Ray Sony 5x burner: $680
Blu-Ray media: $20 / 25 GB = 80 cents per GB
DVD Sony 16x burner: $45
DVD media: $1.60 / 8.5GB = 19 cents per GB
**OUCH!
Sorry but DVD will have a good life until we see those costs dropping significantly.

@BrianK

Quote:

The main 2 producers of Blu-Ray diodes is Nichia and Sony.

Sharp enters blue laser mass production

"Sharp has a start-up capacity of 150,000 units a month and is ready to expand the capacity depending on the volume of orders, according to the spokesman.."

http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=194500029

TDK Prepares for Mass Production of Blu-ray Discs

http://www.tdk.co.jp/teaah01/aah17200.htm