@BrianK

Quote:

hey've had 2x longer then the Windows team on the CPU but couldn't manage the project.

Sony had a lot more to do with Cell development than Microsoft did work on the Xenon. The cell is really a multi-purpose chip suitable for far more devices than solely the PS3.

Starting 2001 over 400 engineers have been contineously working on the project. It's a by far more important ongoing project to IBM than the Xenon was for them.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Dec-2006 at 02:27 PM.

@MikeB

Note what Stone said in the other thread about PS2 AAA titles. You just don't make as much money as on a 360 game at the moment - as crazy as it may sound.

Regarding compatibility... *cough*
GBC played GB games
GBA played GBC games
DS plays GBA games


I wonder why they add it if it doesn't mean anything...

In a recent survey on IGN DS owners were asked if they still use the GBA features of their DS, and when I checked a staggering 71% said yes.

I never intended to leave Wii out of the equation, even if it is sort of in its own league. The DS and PS2 have nothing to do with a discussion about next-gen systems though.

And backwards compatibility is certainly nice. I enjoy replaying Xbox games in high-definition with improved anti-aliasing. In some cases it almost feels like brand new games.
To me the online store aspects are more important though; that I can pick and choose between a huge selection of classic games that have been improved for the current generation. Would I have bothered with DOOM if it were just plain old 320*240 DOOM with no online features/achievements? Hardly.

@MikeB

Quote:

Sony had a lot more to do with Cell development than Microsoft did work on the Xenon. The cell is really a multi-purpose chip suitable for far more devices than solely the PS3. Starting 2001 over 400 engineers have been contineously working on the project. It's a by far more important ongoing project to IBM than the Xenon was for them.

And? 5years of work and a rushed delivery? Not good process management techniques. I think a better solution might have come if Sony waited a year did more market analysis, did more refinement, and compiled enough stock to do more proper release for Christmas 07. Unfortunately, due to the shipment of the 360 last year and Wii this year I think if Sony did that they may have severly risked their market position even greater. It looks to me Sony rushed a product to market to preserve market position but trading off smoothness and completeness of the product.

@Trezzer

I agree backwards compatibility is important and I think that's important to PS3 owners as well. But when the PS3 drops in price there will be less reason to buy a PS2, probably we would have seen more sales of the new Gameboy Advance models if there would have been no Nintendo DS.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox/xbox-360-sales-lackluster-xbox-all-but-abandoned-207711.php

"But there is some interesting stuff in here, believe it or not. Wedbush Morgan Securities game industry honcho Michael Pachter says that the 57% drop in Xbox sales (ouch) indicates that "the console has been all but abandoned in favor of the next generation Xbox 360." No real surprise there, as not even Microsoft themselves have any software titles scheduled for the old black box."

Sony Playstations seem to have far longer lifecycles than XBoxes, I think many people will take this into account as well as backwards compatibility. Actually that's what I liked most about the consoles vs PC gaming.

@BrianK

Some positives from an early release standpoint is:

- Blu-ray drive mass production
- Linux community development
- Offering the most technically advanced device within their market segment, any company prefers such a position.

The hardware is ready, the dev kits are ready, the system software still has a few "kinks" to work on. IMO choice is good, people can now already choose between buying a PS3 with PS2 / PS1 backwards compatibility or a XBox 360 for their high definition gaming solution. Don't you agree?

If Sony sells the amount of units near their targets this year, this will likely trigger more 3rd parties to develop for the PS3.

@MikeB

Quote:

Sony Playstations seem to have far longer lifecycles than XBoxes, I think many people will take this into account as well as backwards compatibility. Actually that's what I liked most about the consoles vs PC gaming.

There's a good reason why the Xbox was abandoned. It was too hard to make a profit on due to now owning the design. That's why they put the 360 out as fast as they did and the 360 is likely to last a normal console cycle if not longer. The 360 could have lasted longer, but it certainly did the trick: Microsoft is now positioned with the strongest next-gen console offering on the market today (note that I exclude Wii from NG as Nintendo does themselves). It's better value, has more overall muscle in respect to games, has better software and truly next-gen software features.

Quote:

Offering the most technically advanced device within their market segment, any company prefers such a position.

Except it has not proven itself worthy of that description yet. The 360 so far delivers far more impressive graphics and better performance in games. Keep chanting all you want. You might want to consider changing the slogan next year, though, when the PS3 is most likely still playing catch-up.

Quote:

people can now already choose between buying a PS3 with PS2 / PS1 backwards compatibility or a XBox 360 for their high definition gaming solution. Don't you agree?

Not to mention the Xbox catalog with improved graphics all across the board - and a steady stream of added games to the compatibility list - 30 games were added around a week ago including the awesome Psychonauts, Conker's Bad Fur Day and Shenmue 2.

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Dec-2006 at 03:46 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Dec-2006 at 03:45 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Some positives from an early release standpoint is: - Blu-ray drive mass production - Linux community development - Offering the most technically advanced device within their market segment, any company prefers such a position.

Blu-Ray drive -- Definitely the Trojan Horse entry to the home Sony is attempting for. But, it's not like the market is screaming for either HD format right now. Partly this is due to the majority of homes having SDTV where Blu-Ray is naught important.

Linux -- meh! Those Linux geeks will love it as they do everything with Linux on it. If you want to use the full power of the console you can't. For the price a PC w/ Linux, if you really want Linux, is a better option. 360 has their home XNA solution if you want to make games and use the gaming console.

Technically advanced device -- yeah it may be we'll see if it's potential translates to actuality. The Cell great idea and the SPEs are the power house. Too bad the majority of gaming needs won't be using the SPE as only about 10-20% of a game does. It may change up the gaming world but with Sony's tools the work to get at that power is more akin to a denist pulling a tooth at this point.

There's no doubt Sony will sell lots. I have strong doubts the PS3 will ever match the market penetration of the PS2. At this point economics don't look good for Sony. One of the reasons the Xbox was scrapped was the economics weren't playable to profitability. It seems Sony may have taken that economic step for the PS3. Time will tell. Again, we see Sony shuffling up management, impending and current losses is likely one strong reason. No doubt that Sony has some rough seas happening and coming the PS3 appears to economically hinder Sony for some time to come. Time will tell if large short term losses are made up for in longer term gains.

@Trezzer

Quote:

It's better value, has more overall muscle in respect to games, has better software and truly next-gen software features.

I don't think the XBox 360 holds more value, sure the XBox 360 currently has more games, but the bigges fanchise being Halo. I am not looking forward to sequels to 'Gears of War', I think they just should have add downloadable content to offer more lastability to the title. If a sequal would add more freedom of movement and other characters then maybe I would be interested, but that would effectively make it an entirely new game.

I think fanchises like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Ape Escape, Tekken, Virtual Fighter, Devil May Cry, Resident Evil, Kindom Hearts, etc, etc will be more important for most future NG gamers.

The PS3 offers good value if you look at the future. If you only look at the games currently available then for most people the PS2 holds more value.

@MikeB

Quote:

I don't think the XBox 360 holds more value, sure the XBox 360 currently has more games, but the bigges fanchise being Halo. I am not looking forward to sequels to 'Gears of War', I think they just should have add downloadable content to offer more lastability to the title. If a sequal would add more freedom of movement and other characters then maybe I would be interested, but that would effectively make it an entirely new game.

Halo is the halo game on the Xbox. Just as Mario is Nintendo for example. Gears while you seem to hate it is very well received by the population. Over 2 million were sold so far which makes it one of the quickest if not quickest selling games ever. Downloadable content is coming for the Online play. Epic didn't seem to have any plans for the single player expansion.

As for sequels they should add/change up the game. Making GoW more open but still a TPS would be desireable. Would it be a different game? Slightly yes and hopefully that's a good thing. Are Lemmings and Lemmings 2 a differnt game? Yes in some ways but strongly related. GoW can have improvements, any game can, but I disagree that more freedom would be a different game especially if you look at something like the difference of Halo (FPS) vs Halo Wars (RTS)

@MikeB

While some of those franchises are indeed big - especially Final Fantasy and Gran Turismo - gamers should be starting to notice that Gran Turismo is no longer the holy grail of racers. It has been beat in most respects by specialized games like Project Gotham Racing, Forza Motorsport and Rallisport Challenge (or even Colin McRae).

They're still big names - no doubt about it. But neither Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Virtua Fighter, Resident Evil or Kingdom Hearts are Playstation exclusives. I'm sure it must have been a kick in the groin for Sony to lose Dragon Quest to Nintendo DS.

Quote:

The PS3 offers good value if you look at the future.

The PS4 holds good value if you look at the future. The PS5 holds good value if you look at the future. The Atari Jaguar 2 holds good value if you look at the future. No, nothing is proven. It may hold good value. We'll see eventually.

Quote:

I don't think the XBox 360 holds more value, sure the XBox 360 currently has more games, but the bigges fanchise being Halo.

The question is whether this is really true any more. Remember that Gears of War blasted past the original Halo's performance and actually performed better than Halo 2. Before Gears of War was released Halo 2 was still the most played online Xbox game on 360 and Xbox combined. Now it's been Gears of War ever since it was released world-wide. Epic are already talking about sequels.

There are also other growing franchises on the Xbox side of things. Project Gotham Racing is immensely popular, people are looking forward a lot to both PGR4 and Forza 2. Blue Dragon, Mass Effect, Lost Planet, Alan Wake and Lost Odyssey seem to work wonders. Dead Rising has been surprisingly popular and Viva Piñata looks like it could be a cross-over hit. Games like Assassins Creed will also be coming to 360 and all in all it's pretty much just the few big boys like Gran Turismo, Devil May Cry and Tekken that PS3 has to itself. The 360 and Wii on the other hand have lots of unique and growing IP that won't be on PS3.

There are franchises like FIFA, Pro Evolution Soccer, Banjo-Kazooie, Knights of the Old Republic, Fable, Wolfenstein, Command & Conquer, Dead or Alive, The Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto, Ninja Gaiden, Perfect Dark, Resident Evil, the Tom Clancy series, Tomb Raider, Transformers, Turok and many, many other of the big franchises that people are used to playing. Some of these are exclusive to 360 while others are not. Regardless I'm sure you'll agree that there's a little bit of something for everyone to say the least.

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Dec-2006 at 05:14 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

If you want to look at single unit sales, then there have been winning PS3 bids of over 15,000 USD.

Oh, I completely overlooked this one. The thing about these auctions on ebay is that sometimes sellers will snipe other sellers' auctions to rocket them into territory where others won't follow - then refuse to pay. Then people can buy their system and they laugh all the way to the bank.

In other news:
Interest in PS3 dropping?

@BrianK

Quote:

Gears while you seem to hate it is very well received by the population.

You are mistaken, it's my 3rd favourite for the platform of the games I tried so far, but I don't think the game lives up to the hype. I enjoy much more watching Lara Croft than those grunts. They surely are no James Bond or Indiana Jones types, IMO they lack depth, humanity is depending on them to save the world.. (Boom...). IMO the main characters make the game look a bit like an empthy-headed Testosteroned freakshow.

However the seeking cover and shooting mechanism works well, if not a bit slow at times compared to what I am used to do in a FPS.

@Trezzer

Quote:

No, nothing is proven. It may hold good value. We'll see eventually.

Maybe not apparent to everyone, but there are people who have seen great titles which are still being worked on.

Quote:

retail practice of bundling the console with software, has lead to a glut of stock online, claims tracking firm NotifyWire.

That's normal unbundled PS3 units are now widely available in North America for 500 or 600 dollar. So 12 hours until a 1000 dollar bundled PS3 was sold doesn't sound strange to me at all, at least they even sold the bundle, maybe to someone unaware of the latest shipments.

@MikeB

Quote:

That's normal unbundled PS3 units are now widely available in North America for 500 or 600 dollar. So 12 hours until a 1000 dollar bundled PS3 was sold doesn't sound strange to me at all, at least they even sold the bundle, maybe to someone unaware of the latest shipments.

That wouldn't be so odd, because there haven't been reports of PS3 availability at all.

@Trezzer

People aren't following certain dealer and consumer discussions. All around the US dealers are receiving more units then they had available before. Some estimates are that Sony shipped in one week more units than they had available at launch.

IMO this bodes well for an on shedule European launch.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Dec-2006 at 06:57 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 20-Dec-2006 at 06:55 PM.

This bundle sounds fair though:

"CompUSA offers new PS3 online bundles

CompUSA on Wed. began offering online bundles for Sony Corp.'s Playstation 3 to its customers.

The Playstation 3 Gift Pack bundles allow customers to choose from the 20GB or 60GB PS3 SKU and six items, including peripherals and game titles.

Game titles include Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, Madden NFL 07, Call of Duty 3, and Genji: Days of the Blade. Accessories include the GameLink Component Video and Stereo Audio A/V Kit, Sixaxis Wireless Controller and Logitech Chillstream Controller.

The PS3 is sold out in U.S. stores and a most wanted item for the holidays. The 20GB SKU retails for $499 and the 60GB SKU with extras sells for $599."

http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=3556

@MikeB

Quote:

Maybe not apparent to everyone, but there are people who have seen great titles which are still being worked on.

Please skip the insults.

I'm obviously not saying there won't be great games for it. All I'm saying is that many of the old classic Sony franchises are Sony franchises no more, opening up for greater consumer choice. You can get a Nintendo or Microsoft console and still enjoy most of the games you enjoyed on previous platforms.

@Trezzer

Sorry, but that wasn't intended as an insult. I just wanted to point out that for some people the PS3 hardware capabilities are already proven to a large extend. Of course even newer games won't show the capabilities 100%, but people have seen things way beyond even PC games offer today.

@MikeB

Quote:

Of course even newer games won't show the capabilities 100%, but people have seen things way beyond even PC games offer today.

I doubt anything like Crysis is running on PS3 or 360 today. The development team has stated that they can't see Crysis in its current form running on consoles.

@MikeB

Quote:

I don't think the XBox 360 holds more value, sure the XBox 360 currently has more games, but the bigges fanchise being Halo. I am not looking forward to sequels to 'Gears of War'.... I think fanchises like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Ape Escape, Tekken, Virtual Fighter, Devil May Cry, Resident Evil, Kindom Hearts, etc, etc will be more important for most future NG gamers.

Again, you take your opinion and project it onto 'most future NG gamers'. Is Ape Escape more important than Halo? Isn't it a futile comparison?

You list Gran Turismo as if it's entitled to be better than Forza, and neglect to mention its pricing structure. The beauty of Gran Turismo was its scope, and apart from its variety of cars and tracks, offered little nothing more than Forza 1, and had no online play.

If you have to pay for cars, you turn its one advantage over Forza into a whopping great penalty. The way I see it, the better deal for a racing fan is a 360, Forza 2, Gotham, XBox Live and the wireless racing wheel for less than £500.

EDIT: Of course, we haven't played these two games, but supposition is what's been happening for 18 pages now.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 20-Dec-2006 at 09:29 PM.
Last edited by clebin on 20-Dec-2006 at 09:28 PM.