@MikeB

Quote:

However the seeking cover and shooting mechanism works well, if not a bit slow at times compared to what I am used to do in a FPS.

You know perhaps this is some of your issue with the game. It's not a First Person Shooter. It's a Third Person Shooter, TPS or 3PS. TPS are nice as you're more aware of the environment around you then the FPS genre allows. Camera angles have historically been a big issue for 3PS. This is one of the things GoW gets over greatly. While most anything can use a bit of tweaking the camera issue for GoW isn't noticeable or detracting as other games in the 3PS genre can be. Resident Evil comes to mind as does Buffy -- both decent 3PS but sometimes the camera seems to be pointing in the most useless direction.

So perhaps part of the problem is you're defining GoW in the wrong genre.

@Trezzer

"Crytek, the dev team behind the high-def super-realistic drool-worthy graphics PC shooter Crysis, said in August that next-gen consoles Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 didn't have what it takes to handle those high def super-realistic drool-worthy graphics. Now, they say there's absolutely no problem porting Crysis to the consoles.

Crytek lead artist Michael Khaimzon says, "I don’t think there would be any problem to convert anything we work on to the next-gen consoles if we decided to." Except that so far, they haven't decided yet."

Maybe someone showed them the games they are working on. I think without any doubt that a game like Crysis can be done on the PS3 and probably improved on, but the game engine needs to be built up from scratch to make good use of the PS3's hardware strenghts and weaknesses.

@ clebin

Heh, Ape Escape was my favourite PSX game.

@ BrianK

Certainly it has something to do with the games I experienced in the past. We base opinions on past experiences. GoW seems a tad slow (aiming and moving around) compared to the more impressive FPS since Quake, driving in the light cannon tank doesn't feel impressive at all especially compared to driving in a fast paced Half-Life 2 buggy.

I think the XBox 360 may have technical difficulties for implementing such faster controls, if not optional speed settings would be nice.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Dec-2006 at 09:45 PM.

@MikeB

They've changed that statement again.

The problem with Crysis is, that it uses vast, expansive environments that neither console have enough memory to handle.

They also said that they would rather build a game from the ground up for the consoles so that does fit what's state above. I wish I could remember where I read/heard the interview but it escapes me right now. It was so new that Gears of War was out already at least.

I'd find it amusing how it's always just "PS3" that could have games ported and improved upon and has vast unexploited potential. You're not one-sided at all, Mike

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Dec-2006 at 09:43 PM.

@Trezzer

I think Halo 3 will show exactly what the XBox 360 is capable of and it will probably be very impressive. But yes, I think next christmas the PS3 will show some muscle which cannot be reproduced on the XBox 360 without reasonable doubts.

I never said I am unbiased, but I don't think my bias is unfounded.

@MikeB

Honestly I don't think Halo 3 looks like the most impressive game on its way to 360. After seeing some fairly recent in-game footage I think games like Alan Wake and Mass Effect will be much more impressive - and perhaps impossible to pull off on PS3. At least with the same visual fidelity.

@MikeB

Quote:

Heh, Ape Escape was my favourite PSX game.

You simply will not have this discussion on anyone else's terms, will you?

In that post alone, you started off with a quote "I don’t think there would be any problem to convert anything we work on to the next-gen consoles if we decided to", chose to ignore the plural "consoles", and started talking about how it would look on PS3.

You acknowledged my post without addressing any of the criticisms. The racing genre is a big market and a racing fan with a reasonable sized budget, is a real customer. Sony are in danger of making a huge mistake in that market. That doesn't fit your template for this thread.

Finally, you make the extraordinary claim that the 360 is not powerful enough for responsive controls. I've never read such FUD, and this AmigaWorld.

@Trezzer

Quote:

and perhaps impossible to pull off on PS3. At least with the same visual fidelity.

What, the Atari ST more powerful than the Amiga? [/sarcasm]

@MikeB

Quote:

I think Halo 3 will show exactly what the XBox 360 is capable of and it will probably be very impressive. But yes, I think next christmas the PS3 will show some muscle which cannot be reproduced on the XBox 360 without reasonable doubts. I never said I am unbiased, but I don't think my bias is unfounded.

I think your bias neglects the difficulty in programming 8 processors as one would have to do to make full use of the Cell (1 core and 7SPEs), for one thing.

Halo3 is unlikely to be the most impressive game. It'll be nice but they'll not likely need all the power available on the console to pull it off. PS3 will have some better games next Christmas w/ better graphics but again so will the 360.

Did you see the downtick in PS3s? Seemed bundled consoles are not as popular as what they once were and sellers who do bundles are finding their pick up rate to be seriously dropping. PS3 prices on Ebay have dropped to PS3 list. That is bad for sellers if you pay list and sell list you lose money to Ebay & paypal The 360 pricing didn't really drop until spring timeframe. --- Again I think the PS3 will eventually outsell the 360 but it isn't going to be the run away hit the PS2 was.

@clebin

Quote:

chose to ignore the plural "consoles", and started talking about how it would look on PS3

I just shared my thoughts on the PS3. Sure I think the XBox 360 can be pushed further, but I have no idea how far. People have done some impressive previously unthinkable things even with the c64. Epic claimed they pushed the XBox 360 to its limits I think the console can be pushed further, on the other hand EA claims even Resistance anf their own games only uses about 20% of the PS3's potential.

Quote:

You list Gran Turismo as if it's entitled to be better than Forza

No, I think more people are looking foward to Gran Turismo games, I think more people know what Gran Turismo is than people know about what Forza Motorsport actually is. Motorstorm may well become a better overall game than Gran Turismo 5, which seems more focussed on amazing realism rather than just crazy fun, but also here I think more people will know about Gran Turismo. Formula 1 looks impressive as well. New WipeOut being worked on, the racing gerne line-up seems well covered for the future.

Quote:

Finally, you make the extraordinary claim that the 360 is not powerful enough for responsive controls

Not a claim, a thought based on Epic's statements.

@BrianK

1 core and 7 SPEs, or 3 cores, looks like we need a paradigm shift anyway.

@MikeB

Quote:

I just shared my thoughts on the PS3. Sure I think the XBox 360 can be pushed further, but I have no idea how far. People have done some impressive previously unthinkable things even with the c64. Epic claimed they pushed the XBox 360 to its limits I think the console can be pushed further, on the other hand EA claims even Resistance anf their own games only uses about 20% of the PS3's potential.

You tend to forget that the PS3 and XBox360 hardware is quite comparable. The Xenon CPU is a 3-core processor, with each core handling 2 hardware threads and having 2 VMX-128 (Altivec with 128 128bit registers etc.) units. It also has special cache modes allowing it Moreover, the XBox 360 has a DirectX 10 level GPU. I do not know where you got the idea that the PS3 is oh-so-powerful while the XBox360 is not, both of them are incredibly powerful consoles, neither of them is the best hardware human eye has ever experienced and both of them have some of the same problems when it comes to game code (bad performance on branch intensive code, etc). They are quite comparable, with the Xenon CPU being a bit more conservative.

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@jiyong

Quote:

1 core and 7 SPEs, or 3 cores, looks like we need a paradigm shift anyway.

6 SPEs for game code, 1 is reserved for system stuff.

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@BrianK

Quote:

Did you see the downtick in PS3s? Seemed bundled consoles are not as popular as what they once were and sellers who do bundles are finding their pick up rate to be seriously dropping. PS3 prices on Ebay have dropped to PS3 list. That is bad for sellers if you pay list and sell list you lose money to Ebay & paypal

That's either a sign that demand is tailing off or supply is increasing to meet demand. It looks like the latter though as I've read numerous reports that restocks in the US are suddenly jumping in numbers.
Sony said they'd solved their production problems a while back, it looks like they're finally starting to appear in volume. As for demand, even the higher restocks are selling out in hours....

Quote:

The 360 pricing didn't really drop until spring timeframe.

They had production problems as well, duff RAM chips in their case.

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Whyzzat?

@MikeB

Quote:

People have done some impressive previously unthinkable things even with the c64.

Since I know how you interpreted the Sony+bricks quote I must assume you're likening the 360 to a C64 now? Oh well, at least the 360 will have kick-arse sound then.

Quote:

Not a claim, a thought based on Epic's statements.

Let's see what Epic have to say about the matter:

Planet Gears of War: In terms of pure hardware horsepower, how much of the 360’s power does Gears use? Are we seeing the limits of what the console’s capable of?

Cliff: The games that leverage the most of any console are always later in the cycle of the system’s life. This is the first Xbox 360 game that Epic Games has shipped. I somehow suspect that future Epic and Unreal Engine titles will be even more beautiful and compelling on the platform.

Mark: I think we pushed the 360 as hard as we knew how to push it during the development of Gears but, even as principle tech development on Gears finished this fall, we’ve already identified areas of improvement and further optimization we can make on Xbox360 so, as Cliff points out, we’ll get better and better throughout the entire generation. We’ve now got the same kind of learning/development curve going on with UT on PlayStation3 as well.

Quote:

No, I think more people are looking foward to Gran Turismo games, I think more people know what Gran Turismo is than people know about what Forza Motorsport actually is.

That's the way it goes with franchises. Some keep growing, others go Sonic. Considering how the Gran Turismo franchise has evolved over the years it's a Sonic for me personally. I loved the first games in the series while the later ones seemed inferior to racers on other platforms.

A glimpse of visual quality to come?


Eternal Sonata 1
Eternal Sonata 2
Eternal Sonata 3

This Japanese RPG will hit USA in 2007 - originally Trusty Bell: Chopin's Dream.
It's from some of the people behind the highly acclaimed Baten Kaitos for GameCube. It looks like they've outdone themselves this time.

@MikeB

Quote:

Epic claimed they pushed the XBox 360 to its limits I think the console can be pushed further,

No Epic claimed they pushed the 360 as hard as they knew how to. They admitted that the Unreal engine will likely be improved on the 360 as will their coding skills to make better use of the console in the future. So, yes the console can be pushed further.
As for the slowness -- The gameplay is a consistent speed it appears to be game design moreso then an overloaded console.

Company provided best 'theortical' performance doesn't always translate to the actual real world use. The PS2 is theoretically twice the gigaflops as the original Xbox. In actuality there were few cases where this was of any noticeable impact. A decent read --
http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?cpage=1


@jiyong
You're right there are 3 cores w/ 2 threads per core on the 360. But remember the 360 is out a year longer allowing developers to learn what they need to do. The 360 hardware is easier to program for to get to the CPU power. By reports the 360 is easiers for developers to actualize the potential of the console due to the high quality tools. Both consoles are in-order execution and highly parallelized a new paradigm is emerging.

@Amigr
Quote:

6 SPEs for game code, 1 is reserved for system stuff.

1 for the system OS, 5+1 for game code, that other 1 out of the 6 must be open to be taken from the software for additional processing by the OS on as add needed basis. So the developer can only really count on 5 SPEs w/ optional use of a 6th.

Last edited by BrianK on 21-Dec-2006 at 05:17 AM.

@BrianK

Gosh someone went ahead and did it and mentioned directX 10.. You can't really speak to what that is about and what it means to games and the OS unless you totally understand the changes..

This article generally gives you the low down. I really recommend the read if you are interested..

DirectX10 Technical Overview

DirectX is Dead! All hail WGF (WIndows Graphics Foundation)

@Trezzer

Gears of War QA manager Preston Thorne told Siliconera at Hollywood launch party: "We pushed the 360 to the limits".

So I was right to take that statement with a grain of salt. I haven't read the post-launch interview you are talking about.

@ topic

WII win

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Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.

@jkirk

Congrats.

@ Trezzer

Virtual fighter 5 in action: (Full quality video is 1.5 GB, ouch..)

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/8074#

@ All

Another interesting read (yes people are still waiting in line if they are made aware of PS3 availability), by far more informative than anything you would read in Time Magazine...

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=launch&message.id=58248#M58248

An informative video from this user:
http://media.putfile.com/PS3-Quick-Overview

Watch it and I think most will not agree with Time Magazine's "perspectives".

IMO Resistance is also a better game than Gears overall (I stick to my opinions no matter how many rewards Gears receives ), you actually have freedom to move around, driving fast vehicles around is great just like in Half-Life 2, a much more involving story line, small details like when you hit windows only parts fall off or holes are very realistic, a much bigger game, 40 user online multiplayer, etc.

Last edited by MikeB on 21-Dec-2006 at 01:28 PM.