@MikeB

Here are the numbers for 2005.

Here are more recent numbers for 2006

and here are the latest.

@wegster

Quote:

Comp-USA

Earlier they offered a great bundle with free games of choice from their website, of course they are now sold out.

@MikeB
Maybe, but now they're ripping off consumers by forced bundles, which was the point in my post you seemed to ignore.

Example: Wal-mart, forced bundle, $1326.00 USD:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5303666

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster
Quote:

Ahh well, no PS3 for me until well after Xmas with that scam going on....

Why dont you just get a 360 and be done with it, we all know you're an MS fanboy

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@Trezzer

Thanks a very useful website.



Less than 24 hours now until the release of the GT HD Concept demo.

Preview video:
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/movie/d485.html

I know the guys reacting to this will probably state it's low detail PS2-like picture the xbox 360 can easily outdo using XNA and just one CPU core , but here are some 1080p screenshots anyway:

http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/gthdc/screen/

Last edited by MikeB on 23-Dec-2006 at 02:39 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 23-Dec-2006 at 02:36 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 23-Dec-2006 at 02:30 AM.

@MikeB

Well, let's see:

The good:

Nice lighting.
Very fluid camera movement.
Good framerate (at least after the framerate conversion in the video).
Nice bystander models.
Nice reflections.
Nice building model and texture
Nice trees.
Nice depth of field effect.
Nice distorted glass defraction effect (look at the headlights).

The bad:

The models aren't anything we haven't seen before.
The road, bridge, barrier and other textures are seriously dull, it looks as if no work has gone into them.
The smoke looks horrendous.
No road decals? Looks like it in the video.
The physics look very simple, note the car jump and landing in the first video.
There is no point in having the crowd move if its animation looks 1998.

It's GT in HD with some advanced effects, nothing more. It doesn't seem to use the PS3 hardware all that much at all.

Last edited by AMiGR on 23-Dec-2006 at 02:46 AM.

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@AMiGR

It isn't Gran Turismo 5 which will take a lot more work, it's just a demonstration of what can be done already. The final product will be better.

But do you think we will see better on the XBox 360? And do you think 1080p games may not be a bad idea afterall, if the hardware is powerful enough?

http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/binary/images/475/p12a.jpg

@MikeB

Quote:

But do you think we will see better on the XBox 360?

Than this demo? Absolutely. Which console will produce the best graphics in the end will only be seen when both consoles are at their peak and only from developers that do exclusives. 2-3 years from now.

Quote:

And do you think 1080p games may not be a bad idea afterall, if the hardware is powerful enough?

I never said that they are not a good idea, what I was and am saying is that I believe that we can see 720p games that will look better than any 1080p game, because the developers will be able to use the resources of the hardware to do more instead of rendering more pixels. For example, a developer could develop an incredible looking lighting system that is so demanding from the hardware that the GPU wouldn't be able to handle it at 1080p but only at 720p. Two options are available in that case. Either you reduce the quality of that effect or you only run it at 720p.
However, such limits will only *really* be reached when the consoles reach their prime, until them I am fairly certain that we will see many "we've reached the limits" statements, only because the developers didn't know how to properly use the system.

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@MikeB

I very much doubt developers will use 1080p because the PS3 has much less video ram bandwidth than the 360.

The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.

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@DaveyD

I think breaking away from PC ideologies and thinking is needed to better understand the PS3 and adopt more an Amiga way of thinking. The PS3's RSX can display Blu-ray discs at 1080p, and it will be able to swallow about anything the Cell processor chewed fot it.

Hhmm interesting:

"Japan has received 390,000 PS3 units.
The Americas have received 620,000 PS3 units.
Which would put PS3 at 1.01 million units worldwide."

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2006/12/22/1-million-ps3-units-shipped-worldwide.htm

If these new Japanese figures are correct, the Sony production machine is running at full steam and is picking up pace.

Funny:

Toshiba: We'll Beat Sony To The Living Room With Cell

"When asked recently if Toshiba would have Cell-based consumer products to market first, Toshiba digital media CEO, Yoshihide Fujii, responded with an emphatic "yes," apparently forgetting the fact that Sony has been shipping just such a product for about a month now. "

HD-DVD is Toshiba's little baby going up against the rest of the DVD-forum founders, but they worked together with IBM and Sony to develop the Cell chip's "enormous power, flexibility and potential."

I am looking forward to future Cell based products by Toshiba, Sony and others.

@MikeB

Quote:

If these new Japanese figures are correct, the Sony production machine is running at full steam and is picking up pace.

Yes. If they have 1 million in retail right now that's a solid number indeed.
One can't help but think what an impact it could have had, had they done a traditional launch on one territory, put put a solid number of machines (like this) and have them sell out. It would have been better press. Even just getting 600k of them out in one country at launch day would have been solid.

@Trezzer

Quote:

One can't help but think what an impact it could have had, had they done a traditional launch on one territory, put put a solid number of machines (like this) and have them sell out.

From a games console launch point of view I entirely agree with you, Japan probably would have consumed these units in a very short time-span.

But I think there are some other considerations to take into account, more important to the long term future than just good press and game console sales, else I don't think they wouldn't be airlifting units as quickly as possible to the US and instead sell the whole stock in Asia.

Blu-ray is important to the PS3's future as well as other parts of Sony, such as their HD TV devision. I think they want to settle the Blu-ray vs HD-DVD war as soon as possible, this would also benefit customers now and in the long run. Having more than 600,000 Blu-ray players on the US market and nearly 400,000 players on the Japanese market already completely overshadows the global market penetration of Toshiba's HD-DVD.

I think we also have to take into account the smaller players who benefit from an early US release. YDL development is now happening at a much faster pace and some launch titles, while just quick multi-platform ports (Such as NBA, Hockey, Anerican Football) are geared towards the US market and these companies want their titles to make it for christmas.

@MikeB

Quote:

From a games console launch point of view I entirely agree with you, Japan probably would have consumed these units in a very short time-span.

I'm sure either one of the territories would.

Quote:

But I think there are some other considerations to take into account, more important to the long term future than just good press and game console sales, else I don't think they wouldn't be airlifting units as quickly as possible to the US and instead sell the whole stock in Asia.

I'm sure you're hitting the nail right on the head when you bring Bluray into it. It seems like a knee jerk reaction. If they had brought out PS3 any later the battle between Bluray and HD-DVD would be over before it even started - I also doubt consumers would have waited another 6-12 months.

Quote:

Having more than 600,000 Blu-ray players on the US market and nearly 400,000 players on the Japanese market already completely overshadows the global market penetration of Toshiba's HD-DVD.

The raw numbers alone don't mean much for a multi-purpose machine, though. We can assume that all installed owners of HD-DVD players got them specifically to view movies. We can not assume the same about owners of Bluray machines (namely PS3).

Quote:

YDL development is now happening at a much faster pace and some launch titles, while just quick multi-platform ports (Such as NBA, Hockey, Anerican Football) are geared towards the US market and these companies want their titles to make it for christmas.

It hurts the big developers in other ways - as you can see by the number of PS3 exclusives that have come to 360 too.

@MikeB

Okay, I just bought an Xbox 360 and 6 games. I also bought the 1 year Xbox live subscription card. However, I did not get the 1600 points card. Am I missing anything by not getting said card? Do I get a get a certain number of points free when I activate the subscription to live?

_________________
I'm not against Amiga, I'm for Amiga
I'm an unAmiga basher

@PCKiller

If you didn't get two different codes I suspect it's somehow tied in to the code for your Live subscription.

@MikeB

Just to put it in perspective:
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/12/21/ps3_supply_improving/

@DaveyD

Quote:

I very much doubt developers will use 1080p because the PS3 has much less video ram bandwidth than the 360. The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

At max the 360 has 5x the videobandwidth of the PS3. There are other factors to consider. The 360 OS is smaller so it has more available RAM. To get to 1/2 of the PS3's memory the video chips would have to go through the CPU. The design of the 360 memory makes it easier for the developrs to get to the power. The graphic processors are very comparable on a theoretical performance level. However, the RAM factors means the 360 will actually be able to run the GPU at a higher level of utilization, run closer to the top performance more often. Considering the variety of factors it appears the 360 is actually better positioned for 1080p then the PS3.


@MikeB
Quote:

The PS3's RSX can display Blu-ray discs at 1080p, and it will be able to swallow about anything the Cell processor chewed fot it.

The type of things to play Blu-Ray at 1080p vs play a 60fps highly detailed game at 1080p are loosely related. Yes the PS3 can play Blu-Ray at 1080p and this will impact gaming by developers including more FMV in a game. Meh. If I play a game I want to game not watch a movie.

As for the Cell it is a powerful chip but 1/3 of the 360's GPU in relation to amount of general purpose processing power. That's 70-80% of the processing needed for most games.

Quote:

Blu-ray is important to the PS3's future as well as other parts of Sony, such as their HD TV devision.

You're right the PS3 is the trojan horse to get Blu-Ray into the home , Sony $ form factor. Sony will warm over it's movies and put them on Blu-Ray, Sony$ movies. Sony argues 1080p is the only way, Sony $ TV. Sony DRM w/ ATRAC, Sony $ music. -- Have you understood yet why people see Sony as attempting to corner the home marketplace? Why criticisms of Microsoft apply to Sony in a slightly different fashion? Sony has bet the PS3 will succeed at promoting every division of their company for them.

Quote:

Having more than 600,000 Blu-ray players on the US market and nearly 400,000 players on the Japanese market already completely overshadows the global market penetration of Toshiba's HD-DVD

The HD-DVD players are to play movies. It's an easy sell that those are all on HDTV sets and people will want the format. PS3s are obviously not all on HDTVs, what % are and what % of that actually care to buy Blu-Ray movies? One factor to watch is how Blu-Ray movie sales do. Do they increase and do they outpace HD-DVD?


@PCKiller
Quote:

I did not get the 1600 points card. Am I missing anything by not getting said card? Do I get a get a certain number of points free when I activate the subscription to live?

The points allow you to buy content online. There are game additions, skins for the GUI, arcade games, music, TV, and music. Are you missing out on anything? Well, it just depends if those items are important to you. Games + Xbox Live you purchased will allow you to play any game against online players so if that's the vast majority of your use I'd say you're not missing much. However, those options are nice and it's a good option to have a bit of points sitting there if you do decide you want to buy something.

A nice free christmas present for PS3 fans. The 1080p Gran Turismo HD Concept is available, the better cars like driving a Ferrari have to be earned:

One user impression, the game includes online ranking.

"the graphics are omgwtf, but here's my favorite feature: you can set your preferred resolution independent of what you've set in the dashboard. so i can pick 1080i in the dash and have gt render at 720p. hallelujah. put this in every game, pls.

also looks like you can download replays from the top five players on the leaderboard. "

Picture Sony store:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/gbovo/PICT0001-2.jpg

Options screen:
http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1001411di8.jpg

Some low quality in game video, first person perspective:
http://www.playsyde.com/news_3909_fr.html

Good quality video, showing both 1st and 3rd person perspective:
http://momupload.com/files/7225/gthd1.avi.html

In game 3rd person perspective:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_3MKBJ-uGam0/RY1M2_v-d3I/AAAAAAAAACM/nY3tN5r0i3A/s1600-h/DSC03832bbbbbb.JPG

Last edited by MikeB on 23-Dec-2006 at 05:28 PM.