@AMiGR

Quote:

Remember that the original PS3 design was to have the Cell handle everything, but it turned out that it could not handle the GPU work and hence the GPU was added.

I think you misinterpreted a publlic demonstration or statement. The PS3 isn't the only device which is going to use a cell processor.

Quote:

However, if they do manage to pull it off, it will have some interesting possibilities

Very cool related early demo (having yourself try out different hairstyles and clothes on the fly):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdY52AOTO0&mode=related&search=

A PS3 game using the new Eye Toy, other than the card game I linked to in my second post within this thread. This one also includes voice recognition!

Eyedentify:
http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1676
http://ps3.ign.com/objects/748/748484.html

@MikeB

EyeToy works well in some ways, but isn't optimal for others. In reality you'd either need several cameras (to capture anything that's not visible from your front) or some additional gizmo - perhaps something simple like putting something around your arms/feet could work in combination with something like the Wii sensor bar. The camera alone will be limiting though. Just think of something as simple as baseball. The EyeToy may capture the forwards motion, but how would it translate you holding the bat behind yourself?

What's good about the EyeToy is that it opens up for other new types of games or interaction - think Electroplankton for video. Totemball for Xbox 360 offers an interesting way of controlling a game - flawed as it may be. Seeing who you're playing UNO with face to face is pretty neat too.

As for alternative methods for input... I'm not sure there's currently anything out there that would work as well as the Wii - and even that isn't overwhelmingly good (it's good, but I'm not blown away). You have to strike the balance between something that's easy to pick up and play and something allowing for precision. Who would want to put on a mo-cap costume every time you play a console? Would you have several cams set up to capture your movements? And is that even practical considering that sometimes you just want to kick back and play in a relaxed manner (as is possible on the Wii).

I'm guessing Nintendo thought long and hard about this. I wish they'd come to the conclusion that rechargable controllers with no wires at all would be the best, but on the other hand I can see how that would confuse users in some situations. *shrug*.

It's a tough balance. As well as Sony did with EyeToy I'm not sure they can out-nintendo Nintendo this time around.

@AMiGR

Quote:

Because I seriously doubt that the Cell is better than the GPU for Pixel Shader work.

It won't do as well as a GPU by any means but it does a lot better than people thought it would. There's a real time raytracing demo which uses the SPEs as pixel shaders. It's 1024 * 768 at 15FPS which is pretty impressive for raytracing.

Quote:

Remember that the original PS3 design was to have the Cell handle everything, but it turned out that it could not handle the GPU work and hence the GPU was added. (I need to find a quote for that).

I don't think there ever was an "original design" just a set of different proposals. This happened with Cell, there were different ideas put in by Sony, Toshiba and IBM, the end result contains bits of each.

Even on the patent there is a possible version of Cell with a built in GPU so if there was ever an idea of not using a GPU at all it didn't stay for very long. I think there was a plan for Sony Toshiba to design their own GPU at one stage but that was dropped in favour of Nvidia.

_________________
Whyzzat?

@MikeB

People appear to be swapping their PS3s for Wiis.
http://gigagamez.com/2006/12/22/ps3s-being-traded-for-wiis/

@BrianK

IMO not too strange for some people only wanting to make a profit. Trading two Nintendo Wiis or one Nintendo Wii + cash may be attractive to such people, as PS3s are now being produced in volume and Nintendo Wiis are often more scarcely available than PS3s, something I did not expect to happen as the Nintendo Wii is much easier to produce, but in Nintendo's defence they are selling globally.

I don't like this kind of behaviour, nor the breaking of PS3 units by some XBox 360 fans for propaganda purposes. It's just the reality of the world we live in even regarding entertainment or hobby products. Sometimes this all seems even more childish than the AmigaOS4 vs MorphOS/AROS/whatever wars, maybe that should give us some comfort, the insanity we have within the community is also reflected in other parts of society. Luckily not everywhere as much though, I see more extremism happen with regard to these entertainment devices in the US than in Japan, or most likely Europe (hopefully).

Anyway this looks quite interesting, the first white PS3 looks better than I thought. I still prefer black to suit the rest of my AV equipment.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260068957059

Last edited by MikeB on 26-Dec-2006 at 07:11 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Trading two Nintendo Wiis or one Nintendo Wii + cash may be attractive to such people, as PS3s are now being produced in volume and Nintendo Wiis are often more scarcely available than PS3s, something I did not expect to happen as the Nintendo Wii is much easier to produce, but in Nintendo's defence they are selling globally

I think the telling is more Wiis on the market then PS3s that the Wii appears to be the more in demand item. The Wii seems to be on track for 6M by March. Some of the swaps are trading even up w/ no cash exchange.

White PS3 is neat for those people that like white. Wii comes in white. The 360 in white wasn't the best choice but I think that color has done little to stop the sales of either console. If someone wants black it's relatively cheap to purchase black side skins and front panel for the 360.

@BrianK

The profit margin on reselling Nintendo Wii's has gone up and the margins on the PS3, due to availability has gone down (still huge profits are being made though). The profit on 2 Wii is now higher than on 1 PS3, it just people doing business.

People are not trading for PS3s for XBox 360s because those are generally sold at a loss.

Last edited by MikeB on 26-Dec-2006 at 07:31 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

nor the breaking of PS3 units by some XBox 360 fans for propaganda purposes.

Why am I not really surprised at hearing this from you?

Smashed 360s
Smashed iPods
Smashed Wiis

But of course it's all propaganda by evil 360 fans! ZOMG!!111

If anything it's anti-consumerist - even if I'm sure some fanboys helped pay for the respective machines. Heck, that's their choice. If they want to make a statement, let them make it. They work hard enough to do it at least.

Quote:

Nintendo Wiis are often more scarcely available than PS3s, something I did not expect to happen as the Nintendo Wii is much easier to produce, but in Nintendo's defence they are selling globally.

That's just because demand is greater for Wiis than for PS3s - they've already sold 2 million and still people can't get enough. I'm expecting demands to skyrocket thanks to ripple effects within the next six months.

@MikeB

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People are not trading for PS3s for XBox 360s because those are generally sold at a loss.

Of course. Once the supply chain is in order there should be no shortage of consoles and thus no demand > availability effect.

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The profit on 2 Wii is now higher than on 1 PS3, it just people doing business

It's people getting 1 Wii for 1 PS3 - and in the cases I read it was to get the machine. They were hoping to make a profit but couldn't.

I hope this will be a lesson for future console launches. If they get their fingers burnt maybe we won't see this idiotic tendency as much in the future.

@Trezzer

Quote:

But of course it's all propaganda by evil 360 fans! ZOMG!!111

Unfortunately I was not talking about 'Smash my blah blah' children....

PS3 vs Chainsaw

"Two Xbox fans by a PS3 playstation 3 on relase date and destroy it with a chainsaw"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5343608704156791739&q=PS3&hl=en

@MikeB

How exactly are the smash my #? children different than the XBox360 ones smashing PS3s?

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@Trezzer

Quote:

It's people getting 1 Wii for 1 PS3 - and in the cases I read it was to get the machine. They were hoping to make a profit but couldn't.

What I read it was mostly people selling their PS3 for a Wii + cash. And when they sell their Wii at eBay they will likely see a higher profit from this at current eBay prices, than just selling the PS3. Successful eBay bids end up higher than retail prices, despite retailers have enough in stock.

Just ended: $755 (Premium, no extras)
http://cgi.ebay.com/PS3-SONY-PLAYSTATION-3-60GB-EXTRAS-FREE-SHIPPING-NEW-US_W0QQitemZ230070501437QQihZ013QQcategoryZ62054QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So Nintendo Wii's are more profitable.

@MikeB

Quote:

So Nintendo Wii's are more profitable.

Indeed. That's what happens with high demand

@AMiGR

They claim to do this as part of social experiments. But they are not scientists, so I doubt this is their true intention, IMO they are just attention seekers.

"Due to success of the SmashMyiPod.com site we decided to take the whole smashing thing a little further, and destroy things right when they come out, in front of 100s of fanboys who would be quite upset to see their beloved game console smashed."

@Trezzer

Yes, that's what I said. The supply of the PS3 is currently better meeting demand than the Nintendo Wii. On both devices you can make a profit, but the profit is higher while selling a Nintendo Wii, they are harder to find at retail.

$455.00 (Just ended)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nintendo-Wii-Game-Console-with-5-Game-Sports-CD_W0QQitemZ160066881408QQihZ006QQcategoryZ62054QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

For comparison XBox 360s are selling below Wii prices at a loss.

$355.00 (Premium, Just ended)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-XBOX-360-Platinum-Console-1095035_W0QQitemZ130061698547QQihZ003QQcategoryZ62054QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Last edited by MikeB on 26-Dec-2006 at 10:50 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

For comparison XBox 360s are selling below Wii prices at a loss.

Naturally. 360s are not hard to find and nor have they been for a long time. Microsoft have a solid production capacity now - it's generally only during launch periods that consoles are hard to come by. Why would anyone pay more than new price on an auction when they could get it from, say, Amazon?

Quote:

The supply of the PS3 is currently better meeting demand than the Nintendo Wii.

Yeah, less machines, less demand - compared to Wii.

@MikeB

Quote:

"Due to success of the SmashMyiPod.com site we decided to take the whole smashing thing a little further, and destroy things right when they come out, in front of 100s of fanboys who would be quite upset to see their beloved game console smashed."

So in other words: everyone is doing it for the same reason. I don't really know which is worse... trying to sell for profit or smashing it up.

@Mike

Could you please fix your URLs so they don't stretch the site layout?

@MikeB

Quote:

The profit margin on reselling Nintendo Wii's has gone up and the margins on the PS3, due to availability has gone down (still huge profits are being made though). The profit on 2 Wii is now higher than on 1 PS3, it just people doing business. People are not trading for PS3s for XBox 360s because those are generally sold at a loss.

So you're claiming the 1 million PS3s are more available then the 2 million Wiis? But, don't see this portaying any possible issue for Sony?

$355 for a used $399 Xbox360 is not a bad deal. They are sold for a bit of a loss off of list price because the consoles have been readily available because Microsoft production has finally made a surplus. With Microcenter selling for $299 and Wal-Mart for $349, both between Thanksgiving and Christmas, it's not a loss compared to the actual prices you could acquire the console for recently.

@BrianK

What I am claiming is that the XBox and Nintendo GameCube are at the end of their lifecycle while the Playstation 2 clearly isn't. This year and in total numbers the PS2 is clearly going to outsell the competition.

People generally prefer to own a PS3 rather than a PS2, but they are currently by far more expensive and harder to find. Most people are perfectly able to wait forl the real blockbuster games to come out, some kinks have been worked out, the price dropped a bit and/or is widely available in their part of the world.

Some people and the press seem to want to pull everything in a light of Doom&Glloom and create "sensational news". For instance tricking people into believing that most people rather own a Nintendo Wii than a Sony Playstation 3. I am sure there would be many people willing to trade their Wii for a PS3, but in general that's not going to happen unless you offer some additional cash.

Kind of funny that game consoles news seems to bring out the inner childs of both newsreporters and their more vivid readers.

Last edited by MikeB on 27-Dec-2006 at 08:43 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 27-Dec-2006 at 08:36 AM.