@MikeB

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PS3 screenshots (I know the URL suggests otherwise):

Burnout 5 is coming out for both 360 and PS3. When these pictures were released it was not mentioned which platform they were for.

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I expect the European launch to come hand-in-hand with some very positive PS3 reviews, unlike we have seen from most US media.

Yeah, they'd have to work hard to make as lacklustre a launch in Europe
As for very positive: That will depend on the quality of the games and how they run obviously.

I was surprised that Motorstorm hasn't scored better than it has so far. I was guessing it would be 90+ on gamerankings, but so far it's at a respectable but not amazing 84%.

@Trezzer

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I don't see Nintendo's classic games on Xbox Live Arcade. That's a real blow to consumer choice.

No, it's not this could ruin a company like Nintendo which invested alot in 3rd parties like Rare to become a success. Without a healthy Nintendo or the Sony Playstation the games market would be much less interesting. The games industry would go the same way as operating systems, monopolitic companies inhibiting innovative progress of the market as a whole.

IMO competition is good, but to buy off management/owners (which is understandable from a personal point of view) often is not. Many Bungie developers were keen on developing for the Playstation, Macintosh, Linux next to Windows.

Would I like Opera to be bought by Microsoft? Hell not. It's a relatively small company, but I prefer using their browser instead of Internet Explorer any day. Would I like Apple to be bought by Microsoft. Nope. Would I like Nintendo to be bought by Microsoft? Nope.

Last edited by MikeB on 05-Jan-2007 at 01:07 PM.

@Trezzer

The early Japanese version of Motorstorm totally lacks multiplay unlike the finished version. It's based on an early version of the game, just like the demo currently available.

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I don't see Nintendo's classic games on Xbox Live Arcade.

I would point out that some of us consider the only classic Nintendo game to be "Donkey Kong", and I would just say that Microsoft in it's defense does have all the famous games from Namco, Williams, Midway, and Atari up there on XLA (XBOX LIVE ARCADE). I grew up not with a nintendo 8-bit system, like most gen-X'ers but with my first home game system being the venerable Atari 2600.. So for me it's like revisiting the games that I played as a kid.

Right now that includes: Pac Man, Defender, Robotron, DigDug, Galaga, Frogger, and many others... All the old favorites I played at home and at the arcade on my old Atari console.

I think not having Nintendo things up there is not such a LOSS after all.. I think Microsoft was smart to go with an "American" original like Atari.. I can still play these things for hours and not get tired. It also brings me back to the brand associations of my youth..

@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: @Lou Nintendo had a 49% minority stake in the company, they sold this after the Stamper brothers sold their 51% interest in Rare to Microsoft.

And your point is what? Does that even make sense? It all happened at once after discussions. It's not like MS and Nintendo ever owned Rare at the same time. The studio was sold to MS all at once. Guess who got the better end of that deal?

Nintendo left control to the Stamper Bros. and suprised - they had lost touch with their roots and felt their employees should work ungodly hours like they did when they were young. It sounds like the EA Wives lawsuit only employees just left and prospered elsewhere. Nintendo didn't have to sell their share to MS. Nintendo saw no value in Rare's future. Golden Eye on the Virtual Console be damned but the Virtual Console wasn't in the cards back then.

Nintendo bought controlling interest in Retro and whipped them into shape. I posted a link to the article about a year ago either here or on Amiga.org where Shiggy came in and cleaned house. Metroid Prime is a gem. Perfect Dark Zero is a lump of coal...as is Kameo. Silicon Knights was a "second party" developer but philosophies didn't mix and ties were broken, they were good while they lasted but I find them over-rated in alot of ways.

N-Space (makers of Geist) and Retro are American developers who will make 1st party FPS games for Nintendo. Retro has some Quake developers and Amiga developers. N-Space, don't know too much about their past but I own Geist and it is/was a great game. A sequel on the Wii will be interesting to say the least. I don't like mindless FPS games. Geist and Metroid Prime (1 & 2) are far from mindless.

Nintendo has made statements about buying studios. They were very straight forward in saying they look for talented people. You can buy a studio with a good past but that doesn't mean is employs talented people today. Nintendo retains people.

Last edited by Lou on 05-Jan-2007 at 01:33 PM.

@Lou

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and your point is what?

There's a major difference in having a majority stake in a company or a minority one. I just pointed this out, it wasn't Nintendo which sold the company like you stated. They sold their remaining stake after Microsoft owned a majority of the company already.

I think Microsoft hasn't reached its target figure of 10 million XBox 360 sales for 2006 worldwide. Outside North America, it seems only in the UK (about 740k this year) the console is doing really well. Total sales are estimated to be even below 9 million (Not according to NextGen Wars website though, they even list the PS3 as being sold less than 900k in total, which is extremely doubtful considering countless other data to the contrary, also their Nintendo Wii figures seem to be way on the low end).

PS2 sales are estimated to be far above 10 million for 2006 alone.

Last edited by MikeB on 05-Jan-2007 at 03:03 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 05-Jan-2007 at 03:00 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 05-Jan-2007 at 02:59 PM.

@jiyong

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Perhaps this is for watching movies, but is this also true for gaming? ... when I play games on my PS2 I am at something like 3 feet, same TV.

You're talking console gaming not PC gaming. Your average console gamer is going to use the same seating they use to watch movies. This is even more likely now as we've gone to cordless controllers. They enable one to sit where they're most comfortable.

Don't forget there's other 'issues' when you move from 10' to 3'. One is the screen the other is the audio. One should be positioning speakers for the optimum sound from the most used seating place. This means your sound converges on that 10' seat you're using to watch movies. Unless you move your speakers to converge the sound at 3' you're going to introduce delays and other issues. Those guys sniping you from behind saying Boom.. That 1/2 second delay might be just enough that they kill you.

@MikeB
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Outside North America, it seems only in the UK (about 740k this year) the console is doing really well

From launch until Dec of 06 there is estimated to be 1M+ Xbox360s sold in the UK. Also, the Xbox after 2 months in the UK had a price drop. Microsoft has shown, so far, that the 360 at a higher price can sell twice as much as the Xbox in the same period. Yes not PS2 levels but yes you are right a significant market gain.

@MikeB

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No, it's not this could ruin a company like Nintendo which invested alot in 3rd parties like Rare to become a success.

If you don't see the irony in this yourself, I'm not really sure what to do to make it obvious how completely silly the entire argument you're making is. So basically it's ok to have exclusives but only if you're not Microsoft. If it's Microsoft that has exclusives it's limiting consumer choice if it's Sony or Nintendo it's not limiting consumer choice. Right.

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Without a healthy Nintendo or the Sony Playstation the games market would be much less interesting.

Competition is good.

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Would I like Opera to be bought by Microsoft? Hell not. It's a relatively small company, but I prefer using their browser instead of Internet Explorer any day. Would I like Apple to be bought by Microsoft. Nope. Would I like Nintendo to be bought by Microsoft? Nope.

Would you like Rare to be bought by Sony? Would you like some rootkit with your DRM, sir?

@DonnieA2

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I would point out that some of us consider the only classic Nintendo game to be "Donkey Kong"

I think you meant "one of us"

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I think not having Nintendo things up there is not such a LOSS after all.. I think Microsoft was smart to go with an "American" original like Atari.. I can still play these things for hours and not get tired. It also brings me back to the brand associations of my youth..

I was being heavily sarcastic, because Mike only complains when it's everyone else but Microsoft who has something that's only on their console. If it's exclusively on Xbox it's limiting consumer choice. If it's only on Nintendo or Sony it's good because they... I have no idea. It's nonsense.

Last edited by Trezzer on 05-Jan-2007 at 03:58 PM.

@BrianK

The data originates from Charttrack. Also around 800k Sony PSPs should have been sold in the UK for 2006, the Nintendo DS probably tops a million units it had very strong christmas sales.

@MikeB

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The data originates from Charttrack.

There was no question on the data. I agreed with your conclusion. I added to your data as Charttrack had 2006 data there's another ~200K sold at the end of 2005. Making the period close to a million 360s and twice the sales of the Xbox in the same period of time.

@Trezzer

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If you don't see the irony in this yourself, I'm not really sure what to do to make it obvious how completely silly the entire argument you're making is. So basically it's ok to have exclusives but only if you're not Microsoft. If it's Microsoft that has exclusives it's limiting consumer choice if it's Sony or Nintendo it's not limiting consumer choice. Right.

Sure they can. But I don't like it when viable Bungie & Rare projects get cancelled or classics aren't being made available when they don't need to do any additional development. Here the consumer hurts, be it people who prefer a Nintendo Wii, GameCube or people preferring OSes like Linux or MacOS. I do know how the commercial market works though, but that doesn't mean I have to like everything commercial companies or governments decide to do.

Microsoft has enough money to attact their own talent, I see no need for them to degrade other options in the process. I prefer competitive market approaches, instead of the Borg approach.

I think Rare will turn out to be a good purchase. I personally don't think the sum Microsoft paid is that important with the cash at their disposal.

Rare are a very British company with strong Japanese influences, so they bring something a little different. Even a not-quite-classic which takes a different slant on things is reasonably valuable.

And perhaps Viva Pinata is the first game for some time that hasn't been disrupted or distracted from in any way. Star Fox Adventures and Grabbed By The Ghoulies (which I don't really know much about) are either side of the take-over.

Kameo was originally designed for GameCube, moved to XBox and finally to 360. I assume it was the same for PDZ (which I really like). It's a pretty difficult birth for a game. If they're just focused on the games, I'm sure we'll see good things.

Chris

@MikeB

Concerning RARE the cash paid, IMO, doesn't seem to have been worth it. Many developers left on the inital transfer. The main brothers left recently. It seemed to be a company in trouble, as a general observation. What value Microsoft can add is their ability to bring in a management team that will scale projects to more realistic goals allowing a better probability the games will be profitable. Narrowing of focus often makes something better then trying to be a be all for every computer system out there. Cross platform titles sometimes hurt the overall game as they are often designed for the lowest common denominator. VIVA PINATA is a good game and I think if we continue to see games like this from them that the people who are there have a good future in building videogames.

@MikeB

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But I don't like it when viable Bungie & Rare projects get cancelled or classics aren't being made available when they don't need to do any additional development.

It's not so odd that Microsoft might want to give XBLA users some Rare goodness instead of Wii-users. At the moment I'd be unhappy if it were on Wii but not on XBLA. It works both ways.

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Microsoft has enough money to attact their own talent, I see no need for them to degrade other options in the process.

They're just doing the same as Sony has been doing for years. They have to. I'm sure they'd rather have third parties just throw games in their direction, but sometimes you need that little extra something (like Halo for instance), and for Halo to get to where it is today, it had to be the perfect match. And it was.

Had Halo been Mac-exclusive you might have moaned that it was limiting consumer choice that you had to get a Mac to play it... or that you couldn't play it on your PS2. Or... or...

I can understand your worries from the classical Microsoft perspective since as a company they have been known to just assimilate. It hasn't been all bad though. Just look at the titles that have come out from MIcrosoft Game Studios on Windows. I couldn't play those on my Amiga or my Mac. I'm not complaining about limiting consumer choice though, because if I really wanted to play them I could. If you really want Perfect Dark and Conker's Bad Fur Day you can get them. I have Conker myself and I even have the choice between playing it on N64 and Xbox.

Last edited by Trezzer on 05-Jan-2007 at 04:52 PM.

@BrianK

I think Rare overstretched themselves. Took on too much at a time instead of focusing on one or two games at a time. Hopefully that ends now.

@MikeB

It's always a shame, no matter who buys who. Thankfully, you do see wisened old developers selling their business to EA or whoever and leaving to set up an independent house.

Because of where I'm from, I worry about the British perspective as American corporates gobble up our studios. We've got a proud history of making games but with no Sony or Microsoft in the whole of Europe, that legacy is being undermined.

Retrospectively Japanese 8-bit games are deemed more important than our big games, because they've gone on to become popular franchises for these giant software publishers. They give people the idea that an early title was ground-breaking and genre-defining, but it's a distortion of what was really happening at the time.

Chris

@clebin

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Because of where I'm from, I worry about the British perspective as American corporates gobble up our studios. We've got a proud history of making games but with no Sony or Microsoft in the whole of Europe, that legacy is being undermined.

While a lot of the old studios are gone we still have game studios in Europe - developing for both Sony and Microsoft platforms.