@BrianK

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Is this an early attempt at Sony canibalizing the Blu-Ray market for itself?

I guess this is a strange accusation, as Java has been part of the BR standard since 2005: Wiki. I'd say because the first players probably have a BR logo on it, you should be allowed to return it to the shop.

I guess the average shop won't give in so easily, but that's another story.

@jiyong

Quote:

Quote: Is this an early attempt at Sony canibalizing the Blu-Ray market for itself? Java has been part of the BR standard since 2005

Thanks for the information. I had asked the question because I didn't know if the standard was changing mid-stream or there was something else going on. It appears that the first Blu-Ray players didn't adhere fully to the standard. The next question is why were they allowed to be shipped if they didn't fully meet the standard? It appears they could be upgraded but it seems more frequenly us consumers are performing Beta testing for companies.

Sony responds to Microsoft's attack:

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A top Sony representative offers GamePro an in-depth rebuttal of recent comments from Xbox exec Peter Moore. At the 2007 Consumer Electronics Show, senior Xbox executives Peter Moore and Chris Satchelle slammed Sony's PlayStation 3 online efforts, calling the new network service a "disaster" and implying the company lacks the talent or "DNA" to launch a successful online service. But today, SCEA's senior director of corporate communications, Dave Karraker, fired back at Moore's comments. "I would argue that consumers worldwide, to the tune of over 200 million PlayStations, PS2s, PSPs and PS3s, have decided whether or not Sony has the DNA to deliver hardware, software and services to suit this industry," Karraker told GamePro. "I think if you look at Gran Turismo HD alone," Karraker contines, "it points to the potential of the PlayStation Network and the kind of ground breaking content we plan to offer. Karakker also clarifies Sony's stance on "shipped" numbers versus "sold" numbers. "To Sony, shipped has always meant 'sold and shipped to retailers,'" Karakker notes. "Microsoft views 'sold' as what has been sold to retailers but could be sitting on pallets in warehouses or stacked on store shelves. 'Sold' to Sony has always meant what the consumer has actually purchased." "I think many people have incorrectly viewed our competitor's 'sold' figure to believe it was actually sold to consumers, which it was not," Karakker concludes.

At least this does clarify the shipped vs sold issues regarding bloated XBox 360 figures. Popcorn anyone?

@Trezzer

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...and hilarity ensues. Sony THOUGHT they won an award for the sixaxxis but they didn't.

"Prior to today's official correction, Next-Gen contacted SCEA PR boss Dave Karraker asking about preliminary reports regarding the confusion. "I accepted the award myself and all they said was that the award was for 'technological innovation for device controller' ... but looking back, they never really did say for which one," a perplexed Karraker wrote in an e-mail.

Strangely enough, NATAS itself approved Sony's original announcement before it was released, according to Karraker. The original announcement refers to "Sixaxis" five times including in the title, which reads, "Sony Computer Entertainment America Wins Emmy Award for PLAYSTATION 3 SIXAXIS Wireless Controller."

Sony received the honor on January 8, along with Nintendo, which won in the same category for the D-Pad."

More Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD

Blu-Ray is gaining support amongst HD-DVD enthusiasts due to CES announcements and the PS3

"When Universale (the only exclusive HD-DVD studio) made Zero announcements of coming titles it shocked a lot of HD fans. Here's what some had to say.

"Wow... completely shocked here. I'm sitting here looking at the announced lists for the first 3 months of the year. I want brokeback and the mummy returns and the departed. On the other side, there's 14 titles I'd get. I think I'm just buying Universal only for my A2 at this point and going Blu-ray for everything else. My PS3 will be opened on April 24... by B-day."
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"For the first time since I bought my HD-A1 and added over 100 HD DVD discs to my collection, I am going to have to consider curtailing the purchase of any additional titles. I will probably cancel my Amazon pre-orders as well. I have been a huge supporter of the format by purchasing equipment and software with zeal. But Universal's lack of enthusiasm dare I say it... has me turning Blu. I was anticipating some huge announcements but we didn't even get a hint of what is to come.

I think the earlier HD DVD announcements were stellar. I predicted the terrific hardware news but I was also depending on Universal to pull out all the stops to help boost HD DVD beyond the first quarter. If this is some sort of strategy, it seems pretty damn foolish to me. I am wondering if they are actually re-considering exclusive support. Regardless of the new Toshiba announcements, losing Universal's exclusive support would certainly deliver a death blow and even I would consider having to make an incredibly painful decision."
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"Wow, makes me feel glad I went with HD-DVD before Blu. I was already planning on going neutral and getting a PS3 by the spring, and still loving my HD-DVD, but with this kind of "support", I'm half thinking it may not be a bad idea to sell my HD-A1 to help pay for it."
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"exclusivity is a prime factor here. Universal is the only major studio that was backing hd dvd. quite a few bd exclusive movies are being announced. not so for hd dvd. i'm gettin a ps3. not because i want to, but because i have to if i ever want to see these movies in hi def."
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"As supporter of both, I have to say that I am dissapointed. Come on, this is CES, where all companies get everyone pumped up about what is to come. Even if Universal plans on releasing 300 titles in the following year, its still a disappointment considering this is CES. I know people will come in here to defend HD-DVD, but face it, today is a gloomy day for HD-DVD no matter how many things you pull out your ass to defend it. I hope they keep releasing universal titles because I want them, but I have a PS3 and I must say that Blu-Ray will definitely be getting most of my money this year. Also I was looking at universals library. And they don't have a "Ton" of hits left in the catalogue, though they do have a decent amount that I will hold on to my A2."

Regarding PS3s taking up shelf space in North America:

9th of January

"Vice-chairman for GameStop, Daniel A. DeMatteo, spoke last Thursday and indicated that for the first time last week there were PS3s available at hundreds of their 3,700 store outlets."

Though this is excellent news, IMO I would be more happy if 3,700 out of 3,700 of their stores would soon have PS3s available. IMO there is nothing wrong with regard to local availability, actually I consider this to be a positive situation. No need to buy from scalpers anymore!

@MikeB

Quote:

Xbox executives Peter Moore and Chris Satchelle slammed Sony's PlayStation 3 online efforts, calling the new network service a "disaster" and implying the company lacks the talent or "DNA" to launch a successful online service.

Didn't Sony release EverQuest? This would be enough to show Moore as wrong. If it weren't for the poor online games that came later such as Star Wars Galaxies. Comparing PS3 online w/ 360 Live services. The Live service wins hands down. Also, Microsoft has profits nearly exceeding Sony's revenue each year. If they see this as an area of pressure on their product it's not like they couldn't severly discount or eliminate the price all together. Sony's online PS2 presence was sad. PS3 is slighly better and has a lot of catching up to do with Live. The PS3 online feels hacked together rather then the smooth well thought out product Live is.

Quote:

When Universale (the only exclusive HD-DVD studio) made Zero announcements of coming titles it shocked a lot of HD fans.

Many HD-DVD titles have already been announced it may be even more a waste to announce them again. Though this is a bit telling that HD-DVD count looks to be overshadowed by Blu-Ray this year. 2007 will be interesting to see if Sony's Blu-Ray Trojan did it's job. Of course Sony is yet to approve p0rn which is currently about 50% of all DVD titles and HD-DVD is making a p0rn play in Japan.

Quote:

IMO there is nothing wrong with regard to local availability, actually I consider this to be a positive situation. No need to buy from scalpers anymore!

Whether it's a problem or not remains to be seen. We know that both Wii and 360 were in demand and could hardly be found on any shelf once they reached the 1.5M level. IF Sony makes the 6M sold by March it'll be interesting to see. We know the PS2 in later years can do that sort of volume. But, if a machine that's 4x more expensive do it, that'll truly be impressive.

Motorstorm 30fps and only 720p.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/10/motorstorm-720p-30fps-read-not-true-hd/

@MikeB

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"I think if you look at Gran Turismo HD alone," Karraker contines, "it points to the potential of the PlayStation Network and the kind of ground breaking content we plan to offer.

It's sort of sad that he really doesn't get it. He's thinking payment models etc. and that's not what the criticism was about at all.

Quote:

To Sony, shipped has always meant 'sold and shipped to retailers

Oh that's interesting news. If it's true then the numbers are at least more similar. On the other hand this comes from a Sony employee so I'll just wait a bit till someone clears it up

@MikeB

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Sony received the honor on January 8, along with Nintendo, which won in the same category for the D-Pad."

This year Microsoft won for DirectX and last year they won for Xbox Live btw.

@MikeB

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No need to buy from scalpers anymore!

There hasn't been for some time. If you read the thread there was at least one offer to point out brand new machines on shelves a little while ago.

@BrianK

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Didn't Sony release EverQuest? This would be enough to show Moore as wrong.

They did. That was an online game and not a dedicated online service, though. The good thing about Live isn't that it provides online multiplayer - it's that it's pervasive in every aspect of the console. The same functionality and features in every single game as a *minimum*.

I know it was extremely popular for a while (if nothing like World of Warcraft) and I even tried it out myself. It was a frustrating experience for me, and pretty much everything I read on forums was people who were frustrated with it.

On the other hand it must have had something good in there to retain as many subscribers as it did.

As for HD-DVD vs BluRay. Well, I'm glad I haven't had to pay for either one

@Lou

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Motorstorm 30fps and only 720p.

Crappy PR team. Maybe they should hire some quality foreigner execs to crack some whips in the USA.

I was shocked Motorstorm would all of the sudden have become 1080p using the same game engine, but these kind of blunders are more shocking. The award thingy also shows some incompetence, either by Sony USA, or if Sony is to be believed by NATAS.

Last edited by MikeB on 11-Jan-2007 at 02:20 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

It's sort of sad that he really doesn't get it. He's thinking payment models etc. and that's not what the criticism was about at all.

I am not sure if he meant that. And I don't know, why MS always drags there XBox Live service into PS3 online offer. Don't they have anything else to worry about ? If Live is so good, why always use this as ammunition against Sony? MS should be confident, that they can't be reached. Basta.

Grand Tourism HD was always a testbed for Sony's micro transaction system. Buy a game but upgrade over time. In that case, buy new cars. How this turns out eventually remains to be seen (e.g. if you buy a striped down version but need to buy components to make it fully usable (==bad) or if you get a full game but buy extensions (==better)).

Also, nobody seems to complain, that PS3 demo download seems to be a huge success and MS copies that. Again, fundamentally different then what XBox offers(ed) (but _after_ PS3 demos were available, all of a sudden you can download 360 demos now).

Currently, the demos don't look to bad and are cheap (usually below $10 or free). That's cheaper then renting Block Buster if you want to get a taste of a game but are not sure if you gonna buy it or not (and you can keep it, especially because the cost 60 bucks).

I don't say Sony doesn't copy, but it is strange that Sony gets a bashing thru out the press for what ever they do, while the same people remain silent when MS does the same (at least here in the US).

I for myself have my personal problems with people using offensive attacks as a marketing strategy. But that seems to be alright and accepted in the society now a days (and justified with "its just business").

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@MikeB

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Crappy PR team. Maybe they should hire some quality foreigner execs to crack some whips in the USA.

Well, that keynote speech from Sony was simply crap. They have to put a kid up there who really knows what he's talking about. Not some insecure looking management type of guy who was so artificial you could join him reading his script.

I think there is a fundamental difference with Sony and the other vendors. It seems to me, that all the others know their products, while Sony just hires "professionals" without any background in the product cycle (if they have, it doesn't really look like they do). These guys have to be exited and should show some commitment to the product. That guy simply didn't.

Looks like pretty micro managed to me (which is most probably true).

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@Trezzer

Quote:

That was an online game and not a dedicated online service, though. The good thing about Live isn't that it provides online multiplayer - it's that it's pervasive in every aspect of the console. The same functionality and features in every single game as a *minimum*.

I agree and that was part of my statement. Sony 'should' have talent for online gaming and conceivably an online service. However, not only have they failed in execution of online, compared to Live, but their later releases of games show that the online gameplay quality from them is lacking. Again, Sony's service looks like a hack not a well thought out plan. Doesn't mean it couldn't be fixed but it's definitely not going to be fixed in the short term and in the meantime the PS3 users will have to live through the growing pains of the service, and lack thereof.

@Jorge

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but _after_ PS3 demos were available, all of a sudden you can download 360 demos now

That's not entirely true. When the360 console was released demos of Live Arcade games were available to download. Geometry Wars is one good example where a demo was available from day one and fully a year before the PS3 release.

@BrianK

It is new for release titles and the scope of the download. (AFAIK Live Arcades are brushed up "retro" games ?)

Last edited by Jorge on 11-Jan-2007 at 02:47 PM.

_________________
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µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Jorge

Quote:

It is new for release titles and the scope of the download. (AFAIK Live Arcades are brushed up "retro" games ?)

Most live arcade games are brushed up retro but there are few new ones such as Roboblitz.

Here's a quick list of some Demos for full games that were out prior to the Nov ship date of the PS3.
Prey had a demo out before the game which came out in July.
Aug - Just Cause, Madden NFL07, Far Cry, Test Drive Unlimited
Sept - Vision Camera, NHL 07, NBA 2K7
Oct - Need for Speed Carbon., Splinter Cell Double Agent multiplayer, FIFA 07, Tiger Woods 07, Tony Hawk Project 8

@Trezzer

Quote:

Trezzer wrote: @MikeB Quote: Sony received the honor on January 8, along with Nintendo, which won in the same category for the D-Pad." This year Microsoft won for DirectX and last year they won for Xbox Live btw.

And Chico got to No.1. What is your point?

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