@jtsiren

Quote:

Just stumbled upon this concerning Oblivion on PS3:

It's incorrect FUD already addressed by Bethesda. Simply a good example of very bad reporting based on rumours spread by XBox 360 fans.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/762/762882p1.html

"Rumors were rampant about the reasons behind the lack of downloadable content. Other websites have reported that the justification behind the missing missions and features was due to technical limitations of the console. According to Hines, nothing could be farther from the truth. There were two specific reasons behind why items like the Orrery and Mehrunes's Razor will not be included within the PS3 version of the game. First of all, there was a concern about the balancing of the game and initially giving players access to a thieves den or a wizard's tower immediately at the start of the game. "There was no good way to incorporate these features into the game as soon as it started because it didn't make sense," Hines said. While he didn't rule out the possibility of some of these side quests or features making it into the game, it wouldn't necessarily be as soon as the game hit store shelves.
"

@jtsiren

Quote:

why are we discussing Australia?

Becasue, this was a big surprise even IGN reports on the story:

http://gear.ign.com/articles/764/764946p1.html

You are free to flame IGN all you want, but it's relevant to the gaming and HD format industry.

@MikeB

It was a good example of selective web quoting in general, just like Trezzer's numbers. You can paint almost any story by quoting somebody, somewhere. As for the reasons behind the Oblivion story, those are discussed behind that link too in the comments (and the story was amended due to that).

Last edited by jtsiren on 15-Feb-2007 at 08:58 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Becasue, this was a big surprise even IGN reports on the story: http://gear.ign.com/articles/764/764946p1.html You are free to flame IGN all you want, but it's relevant to the gaming and HD format industry.

Where have I flamed IGN? Clearly Blu-ray has been launched in Australia earlier and with more force than HD-DVD. It is likely to remain that way, if I'd have to make a bet. OTOH, like the other store chain I linked to, points out, HD-DVD's seem to be relatively easy to obtain in Australia so I just wanted to discuss that.

@jtsiren

You questioned me for bringing up Australia, for instance we know the Bodies here at AmigaWorld are from Australia, Australians are people too. They are a factor in this Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD war as well, but it's just one example in a long list of data which suggests Blu-Ray will dominate over HD-DVD in the future.

I thought you might as well want to criticize IGN for bringing up Australia...

@jtsiren

Quote:

It was a good example of selective web quoting in general, just like Trezzer's numbers. You can paint almost any story by quoting somebody, somewhere. As for the reasons behind the Oblivion story, those are discussed behind that link too in the comments (and the story was amended due to that).

If you know the correct story why not paint the full pictures. With regard to my XBox 360 vs PS3 figures, my stance is clear from post *one*:

MikeB wrote in post number uno:
Quote:

The Nintendo Wii is doing amazingly well all around the globe

Quote:

there seems to be much more overlap between the XBox 360 and PS3, mostly with regard to gameplay, some services and high definition graphics

Quote:

The XBox 360 isn't really doing so well in Europe and Australia neither, except for the UK, so will the PS3 perform any better? What do you think?

@MikeB

Quote:

You questioned me for bringing up Australia, for instance we know the Bodies here at AmigaWorld are from Australia, Australians are people too. They are a factor in this Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD war as well, but it's just one example in a long list of data which suggests Blu-Ray will dominate over HD-DVD in the future.

Well, yes, I guess I questioned us both discussing Australia, but it was with a smiley... it just seemed a bit absurd considering neither of us, or the people active in this part of the thread, are from Australia (nor, I believe - do correct me if I'm wrong, experts/experienced in Australia in this regard) and Australia is not a major market like the U.S. that would really affect us. It is not even like Japan.

It was just the realization mid sentence (I did put it in parenthesis middle of writing my post) that it seemed like we were both discussing insignificant details to get more debate effect out of them than they really, based on the facts on the ground, probably deserved.

There are many things we could quote and dig up to support either Blu-ray or HD-DVD and, I guess, that has happened in this thread on both sides. I just found it to be silly, and me doing the same thing, in this case. That's all.

@MikeB

Quote:

If you know the correct story why not paint the full pictures. With regard to my XBox 360 vs PS3 figures, my stance is clear from post *one*:

I think that is part of the problem. You have a stance that seems unshakeable and covered in marketdroid speech. Maybe that is not what you are, but that is what it seems like. The discussion would be more fruitful if there was more room for the parties to come to undestandings and perhaps sway each-other's opinion to different directions.

You may think (or you may not, I don't know) that I'm somehow opposed to PS3 or an Xbox 360 fanboy, but I assure you that is not the case. There certainly has been information in this thread that has changed my opinion on the PS3 for the better (I also posted some myself like on the news that someone had tried force-feedback with GT HD succesfully), just like there has been information that has changed my opinion for the worse. I get carried away with the debate at times like everyone, but mostly I'm looking for information and altering my opinion as I learn more.

You seem to have made up your mind as to what you like and what you support, and gather information and points to back that stance up no matter what. That is how I see it.

As for Xbox 360 as a DVD player, it probably is quite bad. I don't think upscaled to 1080p via VGA it is terrible, but certainly not competetive in pricing if bought just as a DVD player. Microsoft would do well to improve the DVD player software a lot.

P.S. On the Oblivion story, I don't think the reasons why some features are missing on the PS3 version on launch is not definitely answered by the marketing, but yes, I probably could have quoted better.

Last edited by jtsiren on 15-Feb-2007 at 09:27 AM.

@jtsiren

Quote:

but mostly I'm looking for information and altering my opinion as I learn more.

I also want to learn and I think its excellent to receive counter argumentation, it makes me dig more and more, this also allows me to get a clearer picture of what common misconceptions and reservations there are amongst people.

Of course due to behind the scenes info, I have already made up my mind that the Playstation 3 is an amazing platform (like at the time of being an Atari ST&c64 owner myself, when the Amiga first appeared and the Atari ST had a better software library and was outselling the Amiga initially), the XBox 360 despite being a good gaming platform IMO will not really match up for the long run (like Atari ST vs Amiga).

Recent Phil Harrison interview (IMO here he does a good job and like me he thinks its great the Nintendo Wii is doing so well)
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=17027&type=wmv&pl=game

Funny most popular video at Gamertrailers at the moment (mature content, Sony not being too prude):
http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2567

Last edited by MikeB on 15-Feb-2007 at 10:46 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 15-Feb-2007 at 10:33 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Of course due to behind the scenes info, I have already made up my mind that the Playstation 3 is an amazing platform (like at the time of being an Atari ST&c64 when the Amiga first appeared and the Atari ST had a better software library and was outselling the Amiga initially), the XBox 360 despite being a good gaming platform IMO will not really match up for the long run (like Atari ST vs Amiga).

Do you really feel you have enough unbiased, inside information from both sides to form such a conclusive opinion? I fear that making up one's mind so early may also lead, when debating, to an unobjective effort to find counter-arguments and information that dismisses (or plays down) even valid concerns.

I look at this purely from a gamers point of view: Where are the technically most advanced games? Where are the best games (certainly not the same as most technically advanced)? Either reason could push me into buying a PS3 when some fun games emerge, but I don't think it will be the technology at the moment.

The consoles are battling it neck to neck tech-wise and the Xbox 360 has a great lead in content. Microsoft, compared to PS3, really has surprised many people on how mature and technically competetive machine they were able to bring out a full year before Sony. As you may remember, I was expecting the Xbox 360 to get a beating.

I don't know how anyone could make a definite conclusion yet as to which one will be the better gaming platform in, say, two-three years time.

@jtsiren

Quote:

dismisses (or plays down) even valid concerns

IMO I am not being dimissive of people's concerns. I have tried to address these concerns in my postings, for instance:

Concerns
1) PS2 backwards compatibility - When the pixel flipping issue was brought up, I addressed this by pointing out what the problem really contained and that this would be fixed through a firmware update in January. This turned out to be correct.

2) Blu-Ray disc speed concerns, I pointed out that a dual layer DVD is actually being read slower on the XBox 360 and that the harddrive (and Cell processor) as a default in the PS3 allows for a lot of headroom for improving loading speed. Trezzer asked me what I thought of the rumours that Oblivion would load slower, I responded with => if so I think the game isn't optimised for the PS3 and believed they will find a way to match the speed on the XBox 360. But now it turns out the game actually loads much faster. Games like UT3 and VF5 have been revealed to make use the PS3's harddrive and with regrad to UT3 for the XBox 360 buying a harddrive will become important, potentially dissapointing XBox 360 core buyers which now will have to settle with the same price of the premium version but without the extras, etc.

3) Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD concern - Like the other concerns, other people brought up this concern with claims HD-DVD will crush Blu-Ray. I pointed out that despite HD-DVDs headstart Blu-Ray disc is here to stay for the long run. Now it turns out Blu-Ray is doing very well.

4) There were rumours there would be no 'Other OS' support, with regard to this rumour I simply disagreed pointing out to evidence. Yellow Dog Linux now already runs very well on the PS3 and people are already digging into learning the Cell processor.

The list goes on and on, be it 1080p support, be it XBox 360 vs PS3 sales figures, the Cell's capabilities and overlap with the RSX, background downloading, etc, etc.

Last edited by MikeB on 15-Feb-2007 at 12:40 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 15-Feb-2007 at 11:08 AM.

@MikeB

Just one question:

Does PS3 Yellow Dog Linux support USB Printers at the moment?

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@MikeB

The concerns you listed and later events are mostly correct, Cell is an interesting piece of technology too.

Although I don't think your points about the Xbox 360 hard-disk are necessarily valid since developers have said they use the Xbox 360 HD too, if its there. IMHO you make too much out of the Core issue, HD is used a lot by Xbox 360 games if its there (but not required). This is not like the PS2 HD that was only used by a few games.

The loading speeds on some games have been reported poor on the PS3 (compared to Xbox 360), so those are just real observations and disappointments, even if new games do improve. I think it is understandable people have been underwhelmed by PS3, it clearly wasn't quite ready for prime-time last year. Now it is improving. I've always said it will.

But you also state that you feel PS3 will be the superior gaming platform and I don't understand how you can be so sure. Tech-wise games are neck and neck, older Xbox 360 being superior in many instances too. The specs have been discussed by many and it is not in any way a clear-cut case IMHO. PS3 wins on Blu-ray capacity for sure, but performance is a mixed bag.

What I think it mostly comes down to is this, quoting myself:

Quote:

Do you really feel you have enough unbiased, inside information from both sides to form such a conclusive opinion? ... I don't know how anyone could make a definite conclusion yet as to which one will be the better gaming platform in, say, two-three years time.

I for one can't say either way without resorting to wishful thinking.

P.S. I think your comments on why you participate in this thread are illustrative of the problem I feel your communications have. You say you are hear to learn basically about what people dislike about the PS3 and find ways to counter those worries. This in itself is a very biased and weird way to approach a discussion. I can only conclude you have some kind of a marketing or other agenda behind it all, or that you are simply approaching it from a all-out-fandom point of view. Otherwise it just doesn't make any sort of sense to me.

Last edited by jtsiren on 15-Feb-2007 at 11:23 AM.

@BigD

YDL 5.0 comes with a printer system, if your printer is supported or not would depend on driver availability, you can attach any USB or network printer that has a CUPS driver:

Common UNIX Printing System

@MikeB

I find it amusing how you aggressively attack when I use your usual methods. It seems you do get it even if you don't want to. You should keep it in mind.

@jtsiren

Quote:

But you also state that you feel PS3 will be the superior gaming platform and I don't understand how you can be so sure.

I won't comment much on this now, probably I will around christmas, but this has mostly to do with the Cell processor (of course Blu-Ray, HDMI, a few other features and upgrades being important as well). For the short run I will let Motorstorm and Lair speak for themselves, around christmas I think things will become a lot clearer though.

Quote:

P.S. I think your comments on why you participate in this thread are illustrative of the problem I feel your communications have. You say you are hear to learn basically about what people dislike about the PS3 and find ways to counter those worries. This in itself is a very biased and weird way to approach a discussion. I can only conclude you have some kind of a marketing or other agenda behind it all, or that you are simply approaching it from a all-out-fandom point of view. Otherwise it just doesn't make any sort of sense to me.

I only counter things I consider to be misinformation. There may also be details I've missed or misunderstood, so I am open to any additional information anyone can provide. I would even be very thankful.

@MikeB

About Oblivion loading faster - well, it's also on the disc several times because the drive isn't fast enough. That this helps overall to improve load times is great, but it's two steps forward and one step back.

And now you're spreading misinformation: It will not be mandatory to buy a drive to play UT3. It's recommended - I'm thinking they aren't particularly hinting at performance but rather the mod community. In other words: You can run the full game just fine without a harddrive. I guess the new 512MB memory cards can even hold some of the mods.

@MikeB

Quote:

YDL 5.0 comes with a printer system, if your printer is supported or not would depend on driver availability, you can attach any USB or network printer that has a CUPS driver:

They seem to all be HP Inkjets/Laserjets/DesignJets! Is this the only type/make of printer that would work i.e. an Epson inkjet?

Last edited by BigD on 15-Feb-2007 at 12:21 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 15-Feb-2007 at 12:20 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Trezzer

Quote:

I find it amusing how you aggressively attack when I use your usual methods. It seems you do get it even if you don't want to. You should keep it in mind.

What methods? I have no problem with you selectively picking out sales data even if incorrect, especially if they are so easily debunked. It's crystal clear the PS3 outperforms the XBox 360 in Japan hands down. Today there will be NPD figures available (hopefully for North America as a whole) and I will compare them to the XBox 360's figures of last year. You are free to involve the Nintendo WIi, PS2, Nintendo DS, PC games, cellphone games, etc.

The only thing I don't like is you getting upset, this happens especially when data or information does not suit your personal believes. I am not an aggressive person.

@MikeB

Second part of CNET's fight between PS3 and Xbox 360 is up.
Part two

Final score:
Xbox 360 : 23
PlayStation 3: 20

Last edited by Trezzer on 15-Feb-2007 at 12:37 PM.