@Lou

Quote:

@ all still in denial about PS3 availability: NPD numbers don't lie. Just because you may live in a low population area where your area will not get that many units allocated to (or historically doesn't warrant the allocation) it doesn't mean that you are representative of the entire North America. My advice if you want one so bad, take a train to Massachusetts (or to a major metro area) and buy one. If you can't afford a PS3, well, you are then another statistic in the "why do PS3's sit on the shelves" tabulation.

Huh?
Charlotte is the 20th largest city in the US and the "Metrolina" area is over 2.1 million in population. But, I guess we are just barely surviving down here in the dumb old South. After all, we're all just a bunch of back woods hicks who couldn't count to 10 without using all our fingers and toes and uncle Cletus' tooth.

@Lou

Quote:

I believe Europe has 1/2 the gamer base of North America. If 700k PS3's were sold in 6 weeks, in Europe 350k PS3's will be sold in 6 weeks and probably less since the holiday season is GONE. I don't care that John Q. Public from Smalltown, USA (I'm generalizing here) can't find one at the nearest Walmart 50 miles from the farm, the numbers don't lie.

Dude, you need to get out of your cage and learn a little bit more about the South. Your prejudiced views don't do you justice.

15 of the 20 Charlotte area Walmart's are SuperCenters and have a large supply of everything (except PS3's and Wii's).

@Lou

Here in Europe defective PS2s are usually repaired. I owned a Sony TV which had a problem after a few years beyond warranty, Sony repaired the TV for free.

Quote:

don't you think that ANY title released on the PS2 would dwarf the best-selling release on the other systems of that generation?

Software totals sold till end of 2006 (More than 100 Million PS2 vs 24 million XBoxs):

North America (best large XBox market):
PS2 36,437,400 for 2006 (238,311,900 total)
XBox 7,098,500 for 2006 (70,089,500 total)

Japan (worst large XBox market)
PS2 19,598,000 for 2006 (115,311,750 total)
XB too insignificant to count for 2006 (1,260,250 total).

Europe I guess is somewhere in between these two markets with regard to the XBox and about equivalent to North America with regard to the PS2.

So yes, the Sony PS2 dwarfed the original Microsoft XBox in terms of total software sales.

Last edited by MikeB on 26-Jan-2007 at 07:12 PM.

@herewegoagain

I guess when I said:
Quote:

(I'm generalizing here)

It meant nothing to you and you took it personally then?

As I said, allocations also take into account historical sales data. Maybe you live in an area that favored the Xbox. I don't care, I know my area and the NPD numbers back it up as well as lots of blogger accounts.

@Lou

That's fine for your area, but please quit making it sound like that anyone who says they have not been available in their area is lying or somehow too stupid to find one.

@MikeB

Edit to finally realize what numbers you are posting (with no source).

You are quite selective with your numbers. You pick a full year of the 360 being available hence the Xbox's worst selling from a software point of view.

So you succeeded in re-iterating my point, while losing credibility. How much does Sony pay you again?

Now, looking at the system reliability issue, Gamecube is rock solid, Xbox ok and PS2 has proven hit and miss. In reality, I would say there were more active Gamecube users worldwide than Xbox users even before the 360 launch. The 1M+ sellers list proves this as well. The problem is 3rd parties. They can't sell games on the GC, because they bring over ported crap. Hence, the GC was looked at as a 1st party-only system, though Capcom and Sega never complained.

Last edited by Lou on 26-Jan-2007 at 07:58 PM.

@herewegoagain

Like I and others have said for the past 3 messages:

What part of the NPD numbers do you not believe?

That's fine for your area that the PS3 is sold out.
Please don't call me a liar for showing you actual proof that the PS3 is fairly available.
It is in mine and many others...and clearly is WIDELY available in Japan.

Oh let me re-iterate that the PS3 launched in Japan about 3 weeks before the Wii. Only 2 days (Nov 17-PS3 vs. Nov 19-Wii) in N.A.

Last edited by Lou on 26-Jan-2007 at 07:48 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

What part of the NPD numbers do you not believe?

The NPD hasn't released numbers for January, I think with the numbers for January the sales will well top the 1 million shipped in 2006.

Quote:

It is in mine and many others...and clearly is WIDELY available in Japan.

Not everywhere. BTW the 1 million shipped in Asia includes Taiwan and Hong Kong as well. A much smaller market than Japan, but still if found this interesting:

From a survey amongst Taiwanese internet surfers (December 28-30, 2006): 34.9% said they own a PS2, 3.6% own a PS3 and 2.5% own a Nintendo Wii. (Source: InsightXplorer)

@MikeB

Quote:

From a survey amongst Taiwanese internet surfers (December 28-30, 2006): 34.9% said they own a PS2, 3.6% own a PS3 and 2.5% own a Nintendo Wii. (Source: InsightXplorer)

What does this mean mr. Sony Press Box?

@Lou

IMO you are a perfect example of someone running out of arguments thus resorting to flamebait. I already stated that I think Japanese sales will start to take off when the new Final Fantasy games get released.

Current arguments to wait range from "there are no games I want" to "video stores don't rent Blu-ray movies." IMO a perfectly sane reason for many Japanese to wait. The Japanese don't really like FPSs or US sports games, but interestingly as of the 21st of January 104,000 Japanese bought Resistance for the PS3 and 34,000 Gears of War for the XBox 360...

The Taiwan survey just shows that there are PS3s in Taiwan.

Last edited by MikeB on 26-Jan-2007 at 08:42 PM.

@Lou

Where have I called you a liar? LOL. And why are you and others so determined to bash Sony? Just because Mike is overly enthusiastic about it's potential? That's hardly a reason for you all to get so upset over it. Maybe a little upset that you've got stuck with PS3's that you don't want and can no longer gouge people for money?

BTW, I'm not in Japan, now am I?

@herewegoagain

Quote:

Mike is overly enthusiastic about it's potential?

Well I was "overly optimistic" about the PS2 (not enough to own one myself though), Nintendo DS Lite and Nintendo Wii as well.

IMO my reasons to be optismic with regard to the PS3 I have justified well enough. Now only time can prove me right or wrong. With regard to AmigaOS4 I have always tried to be realistic, calling it a very nice OS for hobby use, stating it won't take over the world and such, still lacking in important areas, etc.

PS3 + AmigaOS4.x = For me a dream come true. Adding greater potential to AmigaOS4 rather than vice versa.

@MikeB

Yeah, I hear you. I didn't buy into any of the last round of consoles. I originally wanted the PS2 but initial supply problems and people price gouging and only selling them as $800 bundles made me decide to just sit it out. I'm a bit more optimistic this time around. I will be looking at the PS3 for a purchase, and possibly a Wii too since the cost is so low on the later.

I did buy a Nintendo DS (original not lite) last year, and I really like it.

@MikeB

Gears of War is not an FPS hence it may outsell Resistance.
The reasons for not buying in Japan are echoed in the US.

@Herewegoagain,
I don't consider him overly enthusiastic. No, it's in your face shameless propaganda about the PS3. That's what I despise. He's started more than one thread on the topic.

Since I am called flaimbait, I will leave the thread and let the whopping 4 people that own or plan to own a PS3 bathe in the rosi-colored light and absorb the mis-information in peace.

By the way, Nintendo by itself, sold more Gamecube software than the Xbox did as a platform in all territories, http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7427

Last edited by Lou on 26-Jan-2007 at 10:12 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 26-Jan-2007 at 10:06 PM.

MikeB wrote:

Quote:

PS3 + AmigaOS4.x = For me a dream come true. Adding greater potential to AmigaOS4 rather than vice versa.

BTW, this isn't something recent. For instance a quote from me in the middle of 2005 here at AmigaWorld regarding the PS3:

MikeB quote from July 2005:

Quote:

I understand that games developers may not be too fond of the idea of having to learn new ways to write their software. But according to the article at least they do seem to believe that multithreaded software is the way forward. Multithreading should not be confused with multitasking. Multithreading is the ability of an operating system to execute different parts of a program, called threads, simultaneously. The programmer must carefully design the program in such a way that all the threads can run at the same time without interfering with each other. Multithreading is mainly useful in a multi-CPU environment. One OS which has been designed with multithreading in mind is BeOS. The initial BeBox prototypes had two AT&T Hobbit processors and three DSP's, later version came with two PowerPC 603 processors running clocked at 66MHz or 133Mhz. Today single CPU solutions are dominant, thus multithreading isn't really that much of a benefit. Software developers who mainly write for single processor solutions don't like doing extra (time=money) work to get the most out of multithreading for other platforms. Games consoles usually only run one software title at a time, however a multi-media operating system generally executes many different programs which may all have various different tasks at a time. AmigaOS4.1 should introduce multi-threading.

If only I had more influence on the Amiga legacy, AmigaOS4 would be running on the PS3 today...

But I have been mostly enthusiastic about the Cell's potential:

MikeB quote from July 2005:

Quote:

The article mainly talks about Xbox 360 (the Cell should outperform the Xenon significantly). One PS3 Cell unit will include the PPE (PPC) clocked at 3.2 GHz and in addition includes 7 active SPEs also clocked at 3.2 GHz. When available the Cell will be the result of over 2000 manyears of engineering. IMO doing this much R&D is fully justified, as Sony already sold over 190 million legacy PSX/PS2 units and Cells will be used for lots of other uses as well, such as HDTV and mainframe computers. Note that Cell development will not stop with the PS3, 5.2 GHz versions have already been successfully tested in lab conditions. Ohter devices may come with more than just one Cell unit.

Yet IMO realistic with regard to initial games:

MikeB quote from July 2005:

Quote:

It will probably take some time before developers manage to get the most out of this platform, as has for example also been the case with the classic Amiga chipsets. The early Amiga games don't compare well to the complex graphics used by for instance game like Elfmania or Lion Heart.

Just to show I have been thinking about the PS3, Cell and AmigaOS4 for quite a while.

I have only ever started 3 PS3/Cell related threads here at AmigaWorld. This one and another big one recently and in 2004 one asking "AmigaOS4 for the Playstation 3, anyone?" pointing to some Cell articles. My first ever PS3 mention was from May 2003: " a majority of people would likely and unsurprisingly vote for "yes", when asked if they would like to see x86 PCs, Macs, GameCubes, PS3 or PDAs be supported by AmigaOS4."

So Lou I don't understand why you are so upset, I hardly ever started threads of my own here at AmigaWorld in all the years of posting....

Quote:

If only I had more influence on the Amiga legacy, AmigaOS4 would be running on the PS3 today...

I tried to warm up Ben Hermans in my conversations with him on porting AmigaOS4 to the PS3, also pointing out the advantages offered by hosting under the supervisor OS, way before founding Fun Computing myself!

http://amigaworld.net/images/amigbg2004/day2/40.htm

My heart really lies with AmigaOS, that's why I did not hesitate to demo AmigaOS4 for the ZDF/3Sat TV crew when asked by Ben Hermans:

http://nbache.dk/AmiGBG2004/Pic30.html

I have also been a vivid poster at BeNews during its heydays, that's how I got into contact with BeNews editor Eugenia and eventually ended up writing articles and moderations over at OSNews. Multi-threading is something AmigaOS4 should learn from BeOS, an OS which borrowed many good ideas from AmigaOS itself.

@Lou

I don't know if you are going to read this, but I'll post anyway.

The thing I countered was your claim that the PS3 was sitting on shelves in the NTSC territory. Do note, I never said it was sold out in the entire NTSC region, but I wanted to put your claim into perspective.

Also note that I never countered your claim that you could walk to your nearest Wal-Mart and buy a PS3.

You didn't want to listen to my arguments and even continued your misinformation that I could ask any American on this forum to buy me a PS3. That claim was debunked by two people. You could argue if this is representative for the whole US, but it really doesn't do any good to your claim.

I gave you a link to an article stating that 58% of retailers had PS3 in stock. You mangled that by stating that 58% had plenty in stock. Now who is giving misinformation here?

You still didn't want to give in and continued with claims we might be in low population areas or areas that don't warrant allocation. Hmmm, perhaps you need to rediscover your own country, because I told you I am living on Manhattan. And when Sony organised a big PS3 launch party on Manhattan, I really doubt the allocation issue.

I really don't mind that you continue posting in this thread, but please absorb the information we put into our postings (like the fact I live on Manhattan, f.i.) and don't put words into our mouths that we never said (who called you a liar?).

Again, I'm not forcing you to say that the PS3 is sold out, only that you should be more careful with the claim the PS3 is only sitting on shelves. If we are allowed to believe the figures of VGCharts (link provided by Vision, who is calling the PS3 a flop), Sony has sold almost one million units in the US alone. So close to one million have left the shelves in the US and are no longer sitting on the shelf.

@MikeB

Quote:

I tried to warm up Ben Hermans in my conversations with him on porting AmigaOS4 to the PS3, also pointing out the advantages offered by hosting under the supervisor OS, way before founding Fun Computing myself!

In retrospective, maybe you should have better talked to Amiga Inc. instead.
Btw, what does "porting AmigaOS4 to the PS3" have to do with the founding of "Fun Computing"?

@hatschi

Quote:

In retrospective, maybe you should have better talked to Amiga Inc. instead.

I have, and you may know managers of both companies made positive statements with regard to the PS3. If Amiga Inc and Hyperion would've been one, I think things wiould have been moving straight foward. IMO the PS3 makes much sense for OS4.

@Lou

Quote:

If Konami's Pro Evolition (Football) Soccer launched with the PS3 then I'll give you another 100k in sales AT BEST. 1,000,000 units on launch iday s going to ruin Sony's shareholder's day.

I doubt it, the PS3 is currently making a loss per unit so slow sales at the moment are not that much of a disadvantage.

Quote:

NPD numbers don't lie.

Nope, but they also don't tell the whole truth (and don't pretend to - e.g. they don't track Walmart). NPD do not track all sales so typically miss 20% of sales.

Quote:

Please don't call me a liar for showing you actual proof that the PS3 is fairly available.

Why do you think the PS3 being "available" is proof of it not selling?
I've seen heaps of 360s in different shops for over a year and it didn't suddenly stop selling.

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