@Trezzer

You're frustrated? I just ran out of time on my Crackdown attempt after getting, precisely, 99 orbs.

If that's not conclusive proof that PS3 is an omnipotent machine-god that's going to cure cancer and rescue kittens, I don't know what is (or selectively speaking, "conclusive proof that PS3 is...cancer and....kittens...know")

Chris

@Jorge

Quote:

Well, you can tag enemies and shoot around corners with the Bullseye...

I'll ask him to clarify - but he was describing it as buggy behaviour - that is as glitches. Not as something weapons should allow.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Component: 1080i, 720p, 480p

But that should just work fine even with BluRay. Is it a TFT ? I'd guess so. Actually I don't see much of a difference on 1080p or i (but then, my monitor is a physical 720 monitor which can 1080i/p signals). Like I said. I haven't tried HDMI set to 1080p without a HDCP monitor (simply because I don't have one). But it is my understanding, that the HDCP limitation is only in regard to BluRay content played at full 1080p, not for games as such. Well, sure BluRay in 1080p/HDMI is crisp sharp, while 1080i on component is not, but it is certainly better then say DVD.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@clebin

Oh. I see it now. I bow before your conclusive evidence.

Nice job on Crackdown. Gonna have to see if I can top it. 8)

@Jorge

Actually the component in is of much lower quality than the VGA / DVI connectors on this particular monitor. So much lower that it would be pointless to use it for high definition video. In fact it doesn't even convert it properly to progressive for some reason. And yes, it's TFT.

Quote:

But it is my understanding, that the HDCP limitation is only in regard to BluRay content played at full 1080p, not for games as such

I thought so too, but that is not the case. HDCP is enabled on PS3 in 1080p over HDMI regardless of the material.

Quote:

Well, sure BluRay in 1080p/HDMI is crisp sharp, while 1080i on component is not, but it is certainly better then say DVD.

Looks like I'll be sticking to HDCP-free HD-DVD or just DVD (combined with downloads from the movie store).

Last edited by Trezzer on 19-Feb-2007 at 11:19 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

I thought so too, but that is not the case. HDCP is enabled on PS3 in 1080p over HDMI regardless of the material.

Ah, yes I just read you linked article. I gotta try that out some how. I just don't have another monitor which could handle DVI without HDCP or such. Maybe in the company somewhere...

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@AMiGR

Quote:

It will not be faster than custom GFX hardware on *gfx* operations, although the *combination* might work nicely. The SPEs are vector units, they are not "so radically different from ordinary fully dedicated graphic chips" because they handle graphics operations differently, they are "so radically different from ordinary fully dedicated graphic chips" because they are NOT graphics chips, they are multi purpose programmable vector units.

Yes but you're talking about Linux here, what exactly are you going to use the GPU for?

The Cell is quite capable of doing graphics, see IBM's TRE or julia demos. It may not be up to the standard of the RSX but unless you're playing a game that's not much of a problem.
3D desktops in linux aren't exactly cutting edge 3D, it's moving a few textures around - not exactly stressful.

A driver may yet appear (they've been hinting at something) but in the mean time I don't see it as a significant problem.

_________________
Whyzzat?

@Jorge

Quote:

Jorge wrote: @BrianK Quote: Yeah but why use a PS3 for Linux? Why not ? I pretty much love my linux on the PS3. It gives me all I want. .. From a coder POV its just a cute nice platform to tinker with. It gives one the opportunity to play with a CELL, ... Don't know what I could use it for which I couldn't do with the PS3 ? (But then, I am not an artist who needs Photoshop and such).

All good reasons but not in line with the rest of the question you cut out. The question was for gaming developers yeah you can use Linux but if you want to write games for the PS3 you don't want to tell people install Linux then run my game. You want the game to run directly. See XNA on the 360 for a kit that in home coders can use to write their own system friendly game, no 3rd party OS necessary.

@Jorge

Quote:

@Trezzer Quote: From what he said it was a regular weapon and it only shot through joints - i.e. corners and the like. Well, you can tag enemies and shoot around corners with the Bullseye...

And winner of my worst gaming weapon idea of 2006! Egads it was nice when I dumped that stupid gun.

@Trezzer

I seriously advise you to read the entire thread at that site about HDCP on the PS3.

You really disappointed me here.

So far I would say most of your postings were accurate and you really supported your views with additional external information. But it seems that now you have given in to things like bold text, you started to slip on other things too.

And just another indication you could have suspected the person that started the thread was wrong. A lot of HDTV panels that have a HDMI connector nowadays have no HDCP. There were no reports that people with "old" 1080p panels without HDCP couldn't get the PS3 signal.

Furthermore it has been on lots and lots of different websites that HDCP isn't going to be implemented on media (BR, HD-DVD, games) for a couple of years (perhaps never?) because there are too many panels out there that don't support HDCP.

You call yourself a slayer of myths?

@AMiGR

Quote:

They do not let anything run on the Playstation 3 directly, they allow OSes to run on the Sony Hypervisor

Have you even used Yellow Dog Linux on the PS3 to have an informed opinion? Like MorphOS were the Amiga-like environment runs hosted, OSes running hosted on the PS3 appear to be running native-like from an enduser perspective, you can already use large apps like OpenOffice.org or Firefox without problems.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Feb-2007 at 09:16 AM.

@jiyong

I did read it. There are several other reports like it on the net.

And I personally know one person who had to get a new TV because his monitor didn't support HDCP on the DVI plug. If you use component there's no problem for games (and 1080i will be fine for some in the case of BluRay).

Maybe you should read it again. No-one in the thread ever states that PS3 does not use HDCP on HDMI. They merely go on to discuss grabbing in general.

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Feb-2007 at 10:49 AM.

Here's a nice video for youse all.

It's from an MIT course on parallel programming, they use the PS3 / Cell to work on.
That's *real time* ray tracing.

_________________
Whyzzat?

@MikeB

Quote:

Now I haven't made huge clains with regard to 'Resistance: Fall Of Man' for example other than IMO this is the first game to show off the cell and overall I think it's a great game, ceratainly better for me than Gears. Maybe if you play the game till the end and did a bit of online gaming you may actually agree considering you haven't played the game.

While I have not played RFoM to the end I have played it for ~1.5-2 hours. What I found is little gameplay any more complex then Call of Duty 3. If one has played CoD3 and enjoyed it perhaps they'll like a game that's about 92%+ similar but against aliens instead of germans.

@minator

Quote:

minator wrote: Here's a nice video for youse all. It's from an MIT course on parallel programming, they use the PS3 / Cell to work on. That's *real time* ray tracing.

Cool it appears they resurrected the bouncing balls circa Amiga 1989. Everything old is new again.

@Trezzer

HDCP over HDMI. While the system doesn't use it today it could in the future. A few say it's not ever going to come but there is no guarantees. Studioes want to protect their movies. We've already seen in the USA attempts to kill DVRs and DVD-Recorders from them because they hated the VHS system. When Blu-Ray or HD-DVD wins the war what encouragement would studioes have to not start using HDCP so they can better protect their consumables? I'd think little to none. They've done all this work over the last 5 years ensuring everything is in place to protect themselves then they're going to simply walk away? Somehow I have my doubts.

@BrianK

Quote:

Cool it appears they resurrected the bouncing balls circa Amiga 1989. Everything old is new again.

Actually the YABASIC you could get for PS2 also had a vector boing ball - wrong colours though

@MikeB

Quote:

Have you even used Yellow Dog Linux on the PS3 to have an informed opinion? Like MorphOS were the Amiga-like environment runs hosted, OSes running hosted on the PS3 appear to be running native-like from an enduser perspective, you can already use large apps like OpenOffice.org or Firefox without problems.

I have read the kernel notes and probably understood a lot more out of them than you will. And... MorphOS? What the...? Could you please stop talking about things you know nothing about? In MorphOS, the AmigaOS environment holds most drivers and has full hardware access, it is not restricted in any way. From the end-user's perspective, the PS3 Linux has no 3D and 2D acceleration and fully software sound. I dunno whether you have but I **have** used Linux under these circumstances and it is not something I would like to repeat.

Last edited by AMiGR on 20-Feb-2007 at 02:32 PM.

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@BrianK

Quote:

HDCP over HDMI. While the system doesn't use it today it could in the future.

No. It's using it *now*. That's the problem. And it's even doing it on games which is entirely unnecessary obviously.

What you're thinking of is the flag on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD which is not set. But a player can still require HDCP to display content via HDMI and that is what PS3 does. I don't know how normal it is on other players, but I know my mother's LG player will only upscale to 1080i via HDMI with HDCP - if you output via component you get 480p.

In other words:

PS3 for games (depends on game resolution support - 720p can't be upscaled to 1080p):
Component: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p (assuming the tv input supports it)
HDMI without HDCP: None
HDMI with HDCP: 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
SCART: 480i
S-Video: 480i
Composite: 480i

PS3 for movies (Blu-Ray):
Component: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (assuming the tv input supports it)
HDMI without HDCP: None.
HDMI with HDCP: 480p, 720p (not sure about this one?), 1080i, 1080p
SCART: 480i
S-Video: 480i
Composite: 480i

PS3 for movies (dvd):
Component: 480i, 480p
HDMI without HDCP: None.
HDMI with HDCP: 480i, 480p
SCART: 480i
S-Video: 480i
Composite: 480i

For the case of general enlightenment here are the same for Xbox 360:

Xbox 360 for games (all):
Component: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p (assuming the tv input supports it)
VGA: 480p, 720p, 1080p (as well as various VGA resolutions)
SCART: 480i
S-Video: 480i
Composite: 480i

Xbox 360 for movies (WMV and HD-DVD):
Component: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p (assuming the tv input supports it)
VGA: 480p, 720p, 1080p, 848x480, 1024x768, 1280x768, 1280x1024, 1360x768
SCART: 480i
S-Video: 480i
Composite: 480i

Xbox 360 for movies (DVD):
Component: 480i, 480p
VGA: 480p, 720p, 1080p, 848x480, 1024x768, 1280x768, 1280x1024, 1360x768
SCART: 480i
S-Video: 480i
Composite: 480i

That may be useful to some if they plan on getting a new display for either machine. There are plenty of traps to look out for - not least what the TV inputs support.

If anyone has corrections feel free to post them - this was done by a bit of research and a few questions asked.

@Trezzer

You should have picked one of the other threads. This particular thread was started by someone with too much money and too little brains. It turned out the grabber he bought didn't support the PS3 signal. And as I scanned through the thread, it seemed he could have read this from the specs.

Just show me the other threads.

I do remember an article where it said you had to be careful with the early 1080p TV's, as some (the article mentioned Sony and Philips) might only support 1080p 24fps.

Next time, please link to a source that actually supports your claim.
Sloppy from your side, I would say.