@takemehomegrandma

Why should Hyperion seek help from someone who wants port OS4 on Efika without Hyperion's permission?

I wish that OS4 was for Efika, Pegasos etc. But I simply think that the Genesi's acting doesn't lead to that goal.

@saimo

While I agree with some of your post I am not sure of this:
"Leo ignored that in the original post and in the translation it is stated clearly that who helped with the port is the Frieden brothers themselves, who, according to their own words, are the owners of ExecSG;"

While "according to their own words" they own ExecSG, what is the opinion of AInc? Shouldn't they wait until a ruling is made or a license granted? Why take the word of the Freidens (no offence intended to their veracity) over that of AInc. There is an ongoing suit as to who owns what and how much. It is similar to the BB case. Now we have seen that ruling by the judge, until a judge rules in the new case between Hyperion and AInc the question is open.

@stew

Quote:

While I agree with some of your post I am not sure of this: "Leo ignored that in the original post and in the translation it is stated clearly that who helped with the port is the Frieden brothers themselves, who, according to their own words, are the owners of ExecSG;" While "according to their own words" they own ExecSG, what is the opinion of AInc? Shouldn't they wait until a ruling is made or a license granted? Why take the word of the Freidens (no offence intended to their veracity) over that of AInc. There is an ongoing suit as to who owns what and how much. It is similar to the BB case. Now we have seen that ruling by the judge, until a judge rules in the new case between Hyperion and AInc the question is open.

As I've said other times, I'm not going to do guesswork around the AInc-Hyperion relationship because what exactly is / has been going on between them is unknown.
Anyway, I mentioned the words of the Frieden brothers to briefly hint at the fact that most likely they have any right to do an evaluation port. Even if we don't want to believe that ExecSG is actually the brothers' property, still there is a huge difference between a port done by them and another AOS4 developer (Andrea Vallinotto, AKA AV or NTN), to a board made by a company, in part owned by another AOS4 developer (Massimiliano Tretene AKA m3x), which is also in contact with AInc precisely as regards licensing issues, and a port done by a third party (Genesi), whose status of relationships with AInc is definitely different from ACube's, without access to the sources.

saimo

P.S. written in a hurry, I hope it's readable.

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@stew

Amiga OS has always contained licensed parts, ARexx probably being the most obvious. I don't see a problem why AOS4 contains other licensed parts. For some reason some people think that Genesi will get rights to whatever that is included on the AOS4 CD.

The Friedens have always said that ExecSG is owned by them and licensed by Hyperion for inclusion in AOS4. No judge can ever change that fact.

rgds,
Stefan

ps. This is perfect! Hyperion have all of a sudden solved the problem with ARexx. They included it on the CD and now all of a sudden Amiga Inc. will get the rights for it and Hyperion will take the blame :)

@Hans

It looks like symptoms of Chronic & Acute Amiga Agony Syndrome (CAAAS) have begun to manifest themselves in this thread too. Where are those announcements? We are in desperate need of a cure.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@saimo

Quote:

saimo wrote: @stew As I've said other times, I'm not going to do guesswork around the AInc-Hyperion relationship because what exactly is / has been going on between them is unknown. Anyway, I mentioned the words of the Frieden brothers to briefly hint at the fact that most likely they have any right to do an evaluation port. Even if we don't want to believe that ExecSG is actually the brothers' property, still there is a huge difference between a port done by them and another AOS4 developer (Andrea Vallinotto, AKA AV or NTN), to a board made by a company, in part owned by another AOS4 developer (Massimiliano Tretene AKA m3x), which is also in contact with AInc precisely as regards licensing issues, and a port done by a third party (Genesi), whose status of relationships with AInc is definitely different from ACube's, without access to the sources. saimo P.S. written in a hurry, I hope it's readable.

I did not want to imply that the suit between Ainc and Hyperion is the same as the one that occured Genesi and AInc. There is a dispute between the two (Hyperion and AInc) that can not be denied. None can deny that there is a dispute between all parties involved over who owns what and how much. If AInc gave permission for the evaluation port I would like to see someone who knows post that. We have seen the posts from Hyperion and AInc showing totally different views on ownership. Shouldn't the details be worked out before one party does whatever they believe entitled to?



While BB was judged to not be entitled to OS4 there has been no ruling as far as we know in the new case. While we may be cheering for ACube and like the Friedens, shouldn't they wait for a ruling? We are critical of BB for just doing without legality, let us be fair. If AInc did not give sources what is our opinion? If they did give out the sources I think someone in authority should say so and clear up the whole matter. If the sources are belonging to the Friedens (not just opinion of the Friedens), I think a ruling (such as you often cite in the Genesi case) should be cited removing all doubts.

@Yabba

Quote:

Yabba wrote: @stew Amiga OS has always contained licensed parts, ARexx probably being the most obvious. I don't see a problem why AOS4 contains other licensed parts. For some reason some people think that Genesi will get rights to whatever that is included on the AOS4 CD. The Friedens have always said that ExecSG is owned by them and licensed by Hyperion for inclusion in AOS4. No judge can ever change that fact. rgds, Stefan ps. This is perfect! Hyperion have all of a sudden solved the problem with ARexx. They included it on the CD and now all of a sudden Amiga Inc. will get the rights for it and Hyperion will take the blame :)

I don't know why anyone thinks Genesi would have rights to whatever is included on the cd. I can see how AInc could think they do. If the contract between AInc and Hyperion says so and the contract between the developers and Hyperion says differently there is a big problem. I don't know what went on between all the parties and even the parties involved don't know what went on in negotiations they were not involved with. A quick legal ruling sure would help things out.

If ARexx was not licensed by Hyperion that id dispicable. No contract can be enforced that transfers stolen goods.

@stew

Quote:

If ARexx was not licensed by Hyperion that id dispicable. No contract can be enforced that transfers stolen goods.

The problem with ARexx iirc, that Amiga Inc doesn't have the proper rights to sub license it and there was no way to get a proper license somehow. So they gave permission to Hyperion anyway.

rgds,
Stefan

@takemehomegrandma
Quote:

...if they can't come to terms with Hyperion, they will have to do it themselves.

I have no idea how they plan to port components without having access to the sources, but you seem to think that there are magic solutions for this.

Quote:

The contract grants them the rights to do this,

The contract gives them right for force Amiga Inc to do the port. It doesn't give them access to the sources.
Quote:

Thousands or tens of thousands of euros to 30+ developers and to Hyperion is *not* realistic for an Amiga product that could possibly hope to sell a few hundred units

Where in the world are you getting this number from? You have had a thread closed, warned for starting a new thread and still you don't listen to what people tell you? What will it take to make you understand why you cannot come up with fairy tales. And then continue to tell them when the people you make up the tales about tell you that they are wrong? Accept that and stop spreading your FUD!

Quote:

and at best be part of sharing the income from OS sales

At best??? Are you crazy? If someone decides to make money out of my work, then they better pay the license fees. Everything else would be illegal.

@Hans

> It looks like symptoms of Chronic & Acute Amiga Agony Syndrome (CAAAS) have
> begun to manifest themselves in this thread too. Where are those
> announcements? We are in desperate need of a cure.

O.K. - here are some announcements, although I cannot tell you a release date:

* A new update of the basic Cygnix package is nearly finished: Shows also the picture viewer gqview. Should be available in some days.

* Work in progress: - Gimp 2.2.13 (plugins not working yet):

- AbiWord (printing not working yet):

Hope this helps

CygnusEd

_________________
X-5000 PPC 5020/2 GHZ, Fractal Define XL R2-Tower, OS 4.1 final update 2, 4 GB, Radeon HD 7770, ESI Juli@ XTe
SAM 460ex/1,15 GHZ, OS 4.1 final, 2 GB, Radeon HD 6450
Amiga 4000D/040 25 Mhz, OS 3.9 BB2, 272 MB, X-Surf, 250 MB ZIP

@CygnusEd

Quote:

CygnusEd wrote: Hope this helps CygnusEd

I hope so too.
Nice to kno that Cygnix is progressing.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@CygnusEd

Gimp & Abiword with or without the X11 layer?

_________________
Avatar babe - Monica Bellucci.

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

Yes you made it up, since they have never said they would use "illegal hacks" in order to bring OS4 to the Efika.

BBRV has said they have taken the legal position that they have a license for OS4 despite a judge ruling that they dont. Since a court of law has ruled this way then a port of OS4 to Efika would be illegal. BBRV can do 2 things to make this legal, first is to obtain a license, the secobd is to appeal to a higher court and try to get the previous ruling overturned.

Last edited by Jeffshepherd on 28-Jan-2007 at 09:25 PM.

@Thread,

Ok, this thread is going the same way as the Step by step and Bringing up OS4 Hardware thread. Those were locked for a reason so I would like to see the "discussion" that went on in that thread left out of here.

Thanks.

Last edited by Seer on 28-Jan-2007 at 09:39 PM.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@CygnusEd


Make new thread, please This exciting info is hard to find here.

- Gimp 2.2.13, AbiWord

...and some screenshots?

_________________
Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM R9250 128MB SB Live!

@stew

Quote:

I did not want to imply that the suit between Ainc and Hyperion is the same as the one that occured Genesi and AInc.

Neither did I. The difference I underlined was about the porting of AOS4, a totally different matter.

Quote:

There is a dispute between the two (Hyperion and AInc) that can not be denied. None can deny that there is a dispute between all parties involved over who owns what and how much.

I'll repeat it one last time: nobody knows what exactly is / has been going on between AInc and Hyperion. For all we know, the dispute could have already be settled by now. For all we know, the "dispute" must not be / have been a lawsuit (which you give for granted above).

Quote:

If AInc gave permission for the evaluation port I would like to see someone who knows post that. We have seen the posts from Hyperion and AInc showing totally different views on ownership. Shouldn't the details be worked out before one party does whatever they believe entitled to?

What do you expect me to answer? Since the details are unknown, how can we decide whether the port was fully legal or not? Why do we *always* have to judge without having a clue about what *actually* goes on? I told you: I'm not adding my voice to the choir. Until now I only said that to me it looks likely that the ExecSG port was legal and that the case is certainly much different from the alleged AOS4 port to Pegasos done by Genesi (I have of course explained why, so please refer to my previous posts in this thread). I can't go beyond that. I can't assure it was legal. I can't assure it was illegal.

Quote:

While BB was judged to not be entitled to OS4 there has been no ruling as far as we know in the new case.

What new case? The home-made port to Pegasos? You said it yourself: "BB was judged to not be entitled to OS4", no further ruling is necessary. Anyway, I've expressed my thoughts about this thing in the others threads (where I was asking about what's legal, what's authorized, and so on) and I've nothing more to say beyond that. Moreover, Seer asked to stop, so I'll stop it here.

Quote:

While we may be cheering for ACube and like the Friedens, shouldn't they wait for a ruling? We are critical of BB for just doing without legality, let us be fair. If AInc did not give sources what is our opinion? If they did give out the sources I think someone in authority should say so and clear up the whole matter. If the sources are belonging to the Friedens (not just opinion of the Friedens), I think a ruling (such as you often cite in the Genesi case) should be cited removing all doubts.

You ask for a ruling when you don't even know what really happens/happened between AInc and Hyperion. Wait and see.
You know what BBRV position is, but you don't know Hyperion's and AInc's, so don't treat them in the same way. Wait and see. And don't listen to anything takemehomegrandma says unless it backs up his claims with solid *facts*

saimo

Last edited by saimo on 28-Jan-2007 at 10:38 PM.

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@CygnusEd

Quote:

Hope this helps

Sure it does! Great job!

saimo

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@saimo

Post 116 is off topic. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough but it doesn't belong in this thread.

Any more posts about the licence/port discussion wil be moderated.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@Seer

Quote:

Post 116 is off topic. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough but it doesn't belong in this thread. Any more posts about the licence/port discussion wil be moderated.

I'm very sorry. My intention was precisely to put an end to speculation of that kind. My apologies.

saimo

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@saimo

Quote:

I'll repeat it one last time: nobody knows what exactly is / has been going on between AInc and Hyperion.

Not even AInc and Hyperion

I guess we have a big problem then



Sorry, I couldn't resist

(English is a difficult language, and we all make such slips now and then )

Last edited by tomazkid on 28-Jan-2007 at 10:41 PM.

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!