Amiga is the Morgan of the car world?

I mean, who in their right mind is going to build a car out of WOOD? 8)

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@RodTerl

But, except for Doomy, I see no one asking for military spec Amigaones!

@Kremlar

Quote:

Kremlar wrote: I just question the business model, that's all, and wonder if it would have been more prudent to go after a wider audience.

It's step one.

Two to follow.

@Mechanic

The problem is, if the step one is unsuccessful there will be no step two. And no steps whatsoever.

A bigger probability of step one being a success would be accomplished by cheaper hardware. I do not consider SMP or 2.0 GHz processors paramount to OS4's usability or success since it's a pretty light OS. Getting a wider userbase and more hardware made would be far better then building some 100 or 200 X1000s. Then, AFTER establishing a bigger userbase something like X1000 could be made with a better chance of it being cheaper and more successful.

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Quote:

The problem is, if the step one is unsuccessful there will be no step two. And no steps whatsoever. A bigger probability of step one being a success would be accomplished by cheaper hardware. I do not consider SMP or 2.0 GHz processors paramount to OS4's usability or success since it's a pretty light OS. Getting a wider userbase and more hardware made would be far better then building some 100 or 200 X1000s. Then, AFTER establishing a bigger userbase something like X1000 could be made with a better chance of it being cheaper and more successful.

Bingo.

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

The problem is, if the step one is unsuccessful there will be no step two. And no steps whatsoever.

We succeed or fail trying. But why not try it?

Quote:

A bigger probability of step one being a success would be accomplished by cheaper hardware.

There are people (me ) who want something more powerful than cheap Efika or SAM. However, portable computer under 400 EUR could be successful (even with slow CPU like 5121e).

Quote:

Then, AFTER establishing a bigger userbase something like X1000 could be made with a better chance of it being cheaper and more successful.

I think we can take both ways. There is expensive and relativelly powerful X1000 and cheaper SAM (or even more cheaper second hand Mac hardware for MorphOS).

Quote:

I do not consider SMP or 2.0 GHz processors paramount to OS4's usability or success since it's a pretty light OS.

SMP (or similar support for more cores) and faster CPUs are important features: we use Amiga hardware not only for our OS, but also for more demanding applications. Some raytrace with Blender, some play games and some like emulators.

Last edited by pavlor on 11-Mar-2011 at 03:54 PM.

@pavlor

Quote:

We succeed or fail trying. But why not try it?

I just think it's a bad timing for trying.

Quote:

I think we can take both ways. There is expensive and relativelly powerful X1000 and cheaper SAM (or even more cheaper second hand Mac hardware for MorphOS).

SAMs are not really something I'd call cheap. Maybe in Amiga terms, but not generally. Sam460 is expensive by any measure, 1000+ euros for a complete system with that specs.

Quote:

SMP (or similar support for more cores) and faster CPUs are important features: we use Amiga hardware not only for our OS, but also for more demanding applications. Some raytrace with Blender, some play games and some like emulators.

Well, better drivers support for 3D and further GPU functionality could give you better ray-tracing performance and smoother gaming without having to use a faster expensive CPU like PA6T.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

I just think it's a bad timing for trying.

It is better to do bad move than do nothing.

Quote:

SAMs are not really something I'd call cheap. Maybe in Amiga terms, but not generally. Sam460 is expensive by any measure, 1000+ euros for a complete system with that specs.

Yes cheap in Amiga terms. Last Amiga hardware competitive to x86 world was A1200 in 1992.

Quote:

Well, better drivers support for 3D and further GPU functionality could give you better ray-tracing performance and smoother gaming without having to use a faster expensive CPU like PA6T.

Better to have both: faster GFX and faster CPU.

More powerful CPU is needed for some of my beloved applications (eg emulators).

@pavlor


Quote:

Better to have both: faster GFX and faster CPU.

Agreed... but there comes a price point where it becomes pointless, especially for Amiga hardware.

Quote:

More powerful CPU is needed for some of my beloved applications (eg emulators).

What emulators are that? I see that an 600 MHz ARM Open Pandora emulates things like PSX and Nintendo 64 with some light frame skipping...

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@pavlor

Quote:

Yes cheap in Amiga terms. Last Amiga hardware competitive to x86 world was A1200 in 1992.

A3000 or A4000 (Not A1200 bad ide device, no zorro)

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@WolfToTheMoon and others.
Hyperion/Aeon know perfectly what kind of market they're selling the X1000 to.
This is a small step toward modernization and NO big numbers are expected (that's also the reason for the hefty price as profit must be realized with every unit sold).
AmigaOS will grow on it, adopting all kinds of modernizations.
A fully functional multy core PPC computer platform might come out of the whole process, then who knows, sky is the limit

What will happen next we'll all have to wait and see...

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@DAX

What modernization? EOL CPU, RAM is getting more expensive by the day because it was replaced by faster DDR3, same GPUs can be had on the Sam460... Please don't tell me SMP, because that is not supported and who knows if it will ever be.

The worst thing of them all is that if there ever will be a successor to the X1000 and if it's a PPC board it will yet again be very expensive because they will have to make a completely new board by the time something like that happens and it will again be made in very small numbers.

I understand abut the market, I just don't see 2 and 2 making 4 in this case. Who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.

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@Kremlar

Here's some old x86 threads:

My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Another x86 thread

And btw,

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Still waiting (or dreaming) for the Amiga revolution...
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@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

if there ever will be a successor to the X1000 and if it's a PPC board it will yet again be very expensive because they will have to make a completely new board by the time something like that happens and it will again be made in very small numbers.

You have a point there because this is how it has been so far, hasn't it? Here comes the third incarnation of the Sam, and it is not cheaper than its predecessors - quite on the contrary. The logic that "the first boards will be expensive so that the next ones can be cheaper" apparently doesn't work in our small market.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

A3000 or A4000 (Not A1200 bad ide device, no zorro)

Are you joking?

A1200 was competitive to 386SX based PCs of its class (under 1000 USD), A4000 not.

A4000 (October 1992):
Amiga 4000
Commodore 1960 Multisync Monitor
6 Mb RAM
68040 CPU/25 MHz
120 Mb HD
1.76 Mb floppy drive
"AGA" chipset
Price: roughly 3500 USD


486DX/2 (May 1992)
80486DX/2 50 MHz
8 MB RAM
14" VGA (and ATI GFX card)
1.44 and 1.2 MB floppy drives
200 MB HDD IDE
MS DOS 5.0
MS Windows 3.1
Price: roughly 3000 USD

Last edited by pavlor on 11-Mar-2011 at 05:23 PM.

@WolfToTheMoon
Well I certainly hope you will (proven wrong) and that you will be happy about it

@Trixie
For prices to fall the situation must improve. More people must be wanting to come back, and for that to happen they need to see things moving.
If the X1000 ends up being fully supported (in all of its features) it might pave the way to a better situation.
How?
It doesn't have to be cheap at this point, customers for the expected sales numbers are enough, what it must do is look fun. It must appear as a machine geeky people love to tinker with. It must appear users are having the geeky time of their life with it.
All this while AmigaOS keep evolving steadily (the two things must go together).
Then more people will want to join the fun and a newer machine could be made at a cheaper price.
Why cheaper?
Well, there is no other way to reduce prices than produce more pieces, and the more people will have an interest in Amiga, the more X2000 (fictional name) will be made (thus lowering the price).

Sam460 comes out in the same situation as before so usual prices .

Naysayers will say:"it's not gonna happen".

Fine. Could be.

We'll try anyway.

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AmigaCD 32

@wawa

Quote:

@Daniel of course. only the comparison doesnt fit.

Please elaborate.

@Trixie

It's hard to imagine that the trend will reverse as long as the hardware is based on PPC. It will get faster, but not cheaper.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: @DAX What modernization? Please don't tell me SMP, because that is not supported and who knows if it will ever be.

Chick an egg paradigma. How the hell do you want the software support hardware if hardware is not avaliable. You need a SMP motherboard first for the software to support it

What i like about Amiga and hate about x86 world is than in Amiga you have one hardware and with time these hardware is being more faster thanks to software optimisations. On x86 world your hardware is being slow and slow because there is almost no software optimisation and the solution is always upgrade to a new GFX, CPU, RAM...etc

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@Fransexy

Quote:

Fransexy wrote: How the hell do you want the software support hardware if hardware is not avaliable.

Mushrooms?