Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5616 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 64 guest(s) on-line.
 3 member(s) on-line.


 smf,  simplex,  DustyA1200

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 simplex:  1 min ago
 smf:  3 mins ago
 DustyA1200:  4 mins ago
 Fransexy:  7 mins ago
 OneTimer1:  14 mins ago
 tonyw:  23 mins ago
 g01df1sh:  43 mins ago
 Mr-Z:  50 mins ago
 clint:  1 hr 22 mins ago
 tlosm:  1 hr 25 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 Next Page )
PosterThread
eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 9:36:45
#441 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@Rudei

Quote:

Rudei wrote:
@eXec

Quote:
this is the ghost city then...


It is, close the door on your way out please!

Rude!


Decency courses are quite cheep these days.
One should correct you primitive behavior.
I will donate money for your treatment.

Last edited by eXec on 19-Apr-2011 at 09:40 AM.

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
-pekr- 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 10:20:10
#442 ]
Member
Joined: 29-May-2007
Posts: 98
From: Unknown

The problem with the long wait for the new HW is always the same - you are trumped by the next release of the "competition". X1000 has XMOS. I wonder, how will it compare to - Tabula :

http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/19/tabula-scores-108-million-to-bring-cheap-programmable-chips-to/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 10:25:01
#443 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@Hammer

Quote:
Pentium 4 is dead. Try Intel Core i3/i5/i7 Mobile Sandybridge.


That was not me who compared PA6T to Pentium 4 class of CPUs.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
KingKong 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 10:38:23
#444 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2006
Posts: 95
From: Germany

@eXec

Judging from your avatar (which currently shows a torture-scene with two man sawing a tied up victim in half) you are the one who needs medical treatment.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 10:50:26
#445 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@KingKong

Thing is not about the avatar currently. You are off topic of already
off topic thread..

The avatar shows a behavior of PPC followers here. I feel like the one in the middle.

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Fransexy 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:02:15
#446 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2004
Posts: 2316
From: Elche (Alicante), spain

@eXec

Quote:

eXec wrote:
@KingKong

Thing is not about the avatar currently. You are off topic of already
off topic thread..

The avatar shows a behavior of PPC followers here. I feel like the one in the middle.


Funny!!!! PPC followers feels the same (the one in the middle) about x86 lovers

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:03:20
#447 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@eXec

Quote:
The avatar shows a behavior of PPC followers here. I feel like the one in the middle.


I hope you exaggerate. Nobody is using so harsh words towards you to justify such insult.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:05:57
#448 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@pavlor

Look through my earlier posts. The atmosphere towards non PPC followers is exact the
same as on my avatar. That`s the reason i put it instead of my picture.

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:12:06
#449 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@eXec

Quote:
The atmosphere towards non PPC followers is exact the


I´m one of the x86 supporters and my experience here is really more pleasant than yours.

However, my support for possible x86 solution for Amiga doesn´t mean that I will not buy some of the underpowered and overpriced PowerPC computers (like X1000).

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:14:55
#450 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@eXec

Quote:
The atmosphere towards non PPC followers is exact the


I´m one of the x86 supporters and my experience here is really more pleasant than yours.

However, my support for possible x86 solution for Amiga doesn´t mean that I will not buy some of the underpowered and overpriced PowerPC computers (like X1000).


Your choice... I will not buy and I do not have anything against if you and xyz people buy it.
But if I say in one of the related topics it is overpriced, out of date, discontinued and get
harsh comments from certain ppc s-creamers , i do feel like the one in the middle

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:24:08
#451 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@eXec
Quote:
I feel like the one in the middle

Your irony and sarcasm is too subtle sometimes

Talking about your statement about PPC being dead, have you read my post #356?
For convenience I'll quote myself:
Quote:
It would seem the SEPTEMBER announcement was following THIS he he

It would seem that performance of Freescale CPUs is bound to rise a lot due to competition at the higher-end, which in turn should have the nice side effect of providing Amiga with strong PPC CPUs in the future...

Besides, older Altivec from Freescale had 162 instructions, while their PR said the new one is an improved rendition (which seems to be proven by the fact the next one will have 180 instructions instead).


Simply put, there are new PPC CPUs on the horizon which are guaranteed to be fast performing and better priced due to strong competition coming, something totally new and unexpected.
Let AmigaOS evolve on the X1000 and maybe the X2000 will be a Freescale based competitively priced (attractive) package.
The high prices are only dictated by the current state of affairs, investors won't put much cash in advance (for a potential mainstream offering I mean) since they know that AmigaOS in current state would not appeal to the mainstream.

However the "after-X1000" scenario could be different, by then AmigaOS might be mature enough to have a broader appeal (thus convincing investors to put more money on the table), and due to new competiton coming, Freescale will be forced to raise their Price/Performance ratio, thus making a powerful and cheaper Amiga, a possibility in the coming future.

Be patient my friend, or, if like me you don't have much, do either 1 of the following things: forget about amiga, come back in 2 years and check where it stands or....like me say a big "go to hell" to other platforms, buy an X1000, support AOS development and enjoy the bumpy but utlimately satisfactory ride

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:31:42
#452 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@DAX

Everything you say stands solid! But... I ask again. how much time till
X2000? 5-7-10 years? Due to the up to date speed of evolution by the time
x2000 sees the light of the day and eventually goes 4 core arm, out there will
be 64 core x86. And where are we then? Again on discontinued and overpriced
hardware, so called "dead spot". Travelling without moving..

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:38:51
#453 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@DAX

Quote:
Talking about your statement about PPC being dead, have you read my post #356?


Performance of none of these (still not available) CPUs is comparable to Core 2 Quad Q6600 in nearly 4 years old computer of my brother.

I think X2000 with future Intel CPU would be more reasonable solution.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rassilon 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:47:49
#454 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 540
From: Office desk, Wandsworth, London, UK

Not posted here in ages, but this thread prompted me to.

I think most people here are realistic when it comes to what OS4.1 can currently do and the speed of existing 4.1 systems (SAM) and proposed (X1000) when compared to modern PCs.

Your average consumer PC has a faster CPU than the X1000, but the difference is that Windows and in some cases Linux require a fast CPU to provide the interface that consumers expect due to the ever expanding set of features they provide. Throw a 4 year old CPU at Windows 7 or current linux distros with comparable ram to an Amiga and you will see systems that are painful to use.

Consumers however do not care about CPU speeds and memory overheads they just want a system that works well and does what they want.

OS4.1 can do many things that your average consumer would want with much less resources than Windows and Linux, which is why we can get away with old CPUs. But give an average PC user an X1000 and OS4.1 and I am sure they can find many things that they are unable to do due to lack of software and not speed.

I think Hyperion really need to identify the most likely and profitable prospective users and focus their energies on developing the technologies in OS4.1 that can bring them in.

If for arguments sake it was identified that home users were the target then they would be best placed focusing the efforts on internet and media support. (I do realise that the Frieden brothers outside of Hyperion are working on Firefox so they have the right idea.)

There are many technologies in Windows etc that are not required to fulfill those demands. So what I think I am trying to say (sorry about the rant) is that:

1) Having an older CPU is not the end of the world as OS4.1 is efficient on slower hardware than Windows etc
2) We do not have to match Windows etc feature for feature - just those that matter for the target market. (There is not the time or the money in the current Amiga market to compete feature for feature)
3) The sooner that OS4.1 not only supports those 'target market features', but does so in a complete and enticing way, the sooner that OS4.1 can make any ground!

End of rant, thanks for reading.

Lewis

_________________
If you don't know what you need to know by the time you need to know it then its not worth knowing

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:50:37
#455 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@eXec
I don't think it will be that far (64 core CPUs won't come out that early ) and you should also consider if the Amiga system you have gives you enough power. If you can do everyting you generally do with a computer, at VERY fast speeds, then you're all set, even an X1000 could be enough considering further boosts could come from OpenCL and other forms of acceleration.

@Pavlor
You said it yourself, those CPUs aren't out yet so you cannot say with utmost certainty they won't be as performing as the Q6600.
Rember that Freescale will face competion in the form of embedded i5, they cannot slack like before, so who knows.
I know you think the 60X0 series will be just like the past +Altivec (which isn't bad at all in my book), but what if they improve the main core? A 3Ghz improved core + new Altivec?
Don't think for it to be too impossible as, in the end, also the Altivec unit was supposed to be the old 162 instructions one (we now already know it's an improved unit instead).

Last edited by DAX on 19-Apr-2011 at 11:55 AM.

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:53:39
#456 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Rassilon
Your post should be pinned!

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 12:01:34
#457 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@DAX

Yep...but what use of super cool os4.x when there is no decent application for anything
on it? There is more decent classic software than for this new ppc toy.
So, conclusion and question in once. Is it real to pay +2000 for a machine that
has no applications. Who will use this xmos and when can we expect support
and products that use it when even such simple stuffs are not supported..(usb 2).
Time will pass, again, and by the time it all eventually is supported somehow we
are again 10 years in the past because out will be usb 4.x, to be more realistic
16-24 cores cpus, ddr 4 or 5...blah blah... not to mention how the top software
will evolve and we will get new drivers for onboard audio, eventually.

Insted of money investing into some custom hardware, it is better to invest into
OS development. There is plenty of hardware out there, cheaper, better, faster.
OS is the core , periphery is already available, in every Media Markt.

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
opi 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 12:20:55
#458 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@Rassilon

Quote:
OS4.1 can do many things that your average consumer would want with much less resources than Windows and Linux, which is why we can get away with old CPUs. But give an average PC user an X1000 and OS4.1 and I am sure they can find many things that they are unable to do due to lack of software and not speed.


OS4 won't make RAW image loading, h264 decoding, webpage loading any faster. I'm talking raw performance. G3 class CPU won't gain more cycles due AmigaOS4. AmigaOS may feel faster due its simple nature, so yes, it's also lack of speed.

Saying that, the X1000 CPU is more than capable if used properly. Trust me, my main computer for now is equipped with PIII and runs cutting edge Linux distribution.

PS. you should post here more often, we need some balance things around here.

Last edited by opi on 19-Apr-2011 at 12:25 PM.
Last edited by opi on 19-Apr-2011 at 12:22 PM.

_________________
OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rassilon 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 12:26:36
#459 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 540
From: Office desk, Wandsworth, London, UK

@opi

What you said about RAW image loading, h264 decoding etc is very true, however PCs circumvent some of those issues with GPU hardware assists. But as you say a G3 class CPU won't cut it.

Thankfully the X1000s CPU (name eludes me and I can't be @rsed to look) is better than a G3 and should be able to deal with those issues with the right software and hardware support.

As an aside - did you tune your cutting edge Linux distro, or is it setup with a standard install?

_________________
If you don't know what you need to know by the time you need to know it then its not worth knowing

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
opi 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 12:31:06
#460 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@Rassilon

Quote:
Thankfully the X1000s CPU (name eludes me and I can't be @rsed to look) is better than a G3 and should be able to deal with those issues with the right software and hardware support.


That's why it's essential to have it running two cores, IMHO. As soon as possible. Also: memory performance.

Quote:
did you tune your cutting edge Linux distro


Sure I did, at least on the front-end side. But I can still get my work done and when I'm going to lay my hands on new i5 everything will be SO FREAKING FAST! :->

_________________
OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle