@Nimrod

Quote:

And do you understand that every molecule of PVC is a closed system in which all charges are cancelled out

Every molecule has electromagnetic waves and is thus a magnet. What do you think causes atoms to stick together to form molecules? And what makes molecules stick together when they get close enough?

All matter is made up completely of waves. Repulsive and attractive forces can keep waves contained. That's why you can hold and lift a PVC tube.

The earth has a large magnetosphere "bubble" within which it is fixed in the middle, which moves inside the great helioshpere bubble of the sun. The earth is moved by EM force produced by the rotating sun (hence counter-clockwise). Because your PVC tube is attracted to the earth (as well as repulsed), when the earth moves your PVC tube moves with it.

Likewise in outerspace in our solar system your PVC tube will orbit as everything else, such as the magnetic dust clouds continuously exerted by the sun. The molecules in outer space will show repulsive and attractive force on your PVC tube and thus the PVC tube will be in motion just like the highly magnetic molecules surrounding it.

Last edited by MikeB on 24-May-2011 at 08:14 AM.

@Lou

Quote:

What do you suppose causes spark plugs to fire in a car engine, is it gravity?

We all know that there is such a thing as EM, and I for one know what it is, as well as what it isn't. Your determination to resolve all matters to one single answer is like an engineer only having one tool in his toolkit. If I have a 6mm nut I adjust it using a 6mm spanner. I do not try to use a 10mm spanner. Nor do I allow any "engineer" to use an adjustable spanner (I believe the American term to be "monkey wrench") on any important equipment that I am responsible for, especially if there is a screw loose. Use the relevant tool for the job, not "one size fits all".

Quote:

Can you see how your views are ignorant about how powerful EM can be?

The Earths magnetic field is not uniform, or to put it into terms that you can understand "there are more lines of force near the poles than at the equator". This simple fact can be determined using a magnetometer.
Experiment:
Take a strong magnet from any source of your own choosing and weigh it, either on a balance scale, or an electronic loadcell device. Record the result. Do the same with a perspex block. Repeat these actions at various locations throughout the world and compare percentage variations in weight between the magnet and the perspex.
Do not take my word for what the result will be as opinion is irrelevant. Try the experiment yourself, and learn from the experiment.

Can you see how your views are ignorant about how powerful EM can be? Or how feeble?

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@MikeB

Quote:

The earth is moved by EM force produced by the rotating sun

Oh really! so where is the evidence that it is EM? Where is your corroboration? Where is your mathematical equation? Name the accredited scientific source of your hypothesis. How does the Suns magnetic field get to be strong enough to move the Earth, yet not be strong enough to align the magnetic field of the Earth? How does the Suns magnetic field move bodies that have no discernible magnetic field?
Go back to your sources and check. Sitchin doesn't know, the ancient Sumerians neglected to tell him, just as they neglected to explain why a spaceship would be built using bricks and mortar. James McCanney doesn't know, If he did he would publish equations to regain the academic credibility he lost when Cornell threw him out. As it is he is reduced to selling his book and a filter Quote:

THE UNIVERSAL CHEM/RAD/OIL PRE-FILTER IS NOW POSTED FOR SALE ... NOW THAT THE JAPAN RADIATION IS MOVING TO THE USA THIS BECOMES MORE ESSENTIAL THAN BEFORE

I have this mental image of very small immigration officers checking the green cards of all subatomic particles in USA to keep out Japanese radiation.
Just like Lou, you have only one tool in your toolbox, and it is not helping you while you have a screw loose.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

Quote:

Oh really! so where is the evidence that it is EM?

The evidence is obvious. The sun's planets (and everything else in between) are moving within a pancake-like counter-clockwise orbit in the same direction the sun rotates. The constant you can use for an equation is already used for "universal gravity".

But instead of this *empirical* constant being attributed to the sun's rotating magnetic current (and the planets are linked to the sun by magnetic ropes, while the sun also exerts solar wind) it is attributed to the theory of universal gravity.

If you understand my previous postings you will understand what "gravity" really is and is attraction between matter with relative short distances.

You want an equation, a rough empirical equation already exists. The problem is you (and sadly alledgedly scientists in general) don't understand its true meaning. Hence they can't even explain simple things such as the moon's orbit around both the sun and earth, why the solar system is shaped like a pancake instead of all the planets orbiting the sun criss cross, why galaxies are being repulsed at accelerated rate instead of slowed by gravity, why some planets are tilted, why alignments can trigger earthquakes, why stars in our galaxy rotate as a pancake shaped spiral as well, etc, etc.

The old model quite obviously obsolete.

Antimatter does not exist.

The positron is considered to be a anti-electron. What happens when a positron and electron "annihilate" each other? Usually two photons are formed (at higher energies other waves). That is not really annihilation. Annihilation is defined as "total destruction", while in fact here we only have two wave "particles" altering each other's wave structure.

But believe what you want to believe. But IMO holding onto your old believes will only make your universe more and more complex to the point you blindly accept everything you are being told.

Last edited by MikeB on 24-May-2011 at 09:50 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 24-May-2011 at 09:45 AM.

@T-J

Quote:

T-J wrote: @Lou Quote: EM is reproducable, gravity is not. EM produces an imperceptibly small fraction of the total observed effect. It is orders of magnitude too weak to be the governing force. Your own sources state this. Independent experiment shows this. Why can you not accept this?

You fail to grasp how simple EM can be amplified.
I believe a solenoid was linked in the original thread.
It's possible to make a rail gun this way. Suppose the direction is reversed, would it then be a 'gravity gun'?

When the flow of an EM field is distorted, it's effects can be magnificent.
Why can you not accept this?

Picture an EM field as an unprogrammed FPGA. Start playing with voltages in certain places and interesting things begin to happen.

If we could figure out how to produce electricity more efficiently, or atleast store it efficiently for later use, interesting things can start to happen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionocraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster

Now what's interesting is that if you can supply a strong enough EM field, it is possible to permentantly split a photon. With luck, those electrons could be scavenged to persist the field and protons could be ejected to make thrust.
I think I just described a wave-motion engine.

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote: @Lou Quote: Can you see how your views are ignorant about how powerful EM can be? The Earths magnetic field is not uniform, or to put it into terms that you can understand "there are more lines of force near the poles than at the equator". This simple fact can be determined using a magnetometer. Experiment: Take a strong magnet from any source of your own choosing and weigh it, either on a balance scale, or an electronic loadcell device. Record the result. Do the same with a perspex block. Repeat these actions at various locations throughout the world and compare percentage variations in weight between the magnet and the perspex. Do not take my word for what the result will be as opinion is irrelevant. Try the experiment yourself, and learn from the experiment. Can you see how your views are ignorant about how powerful EM can be? Or how feeble?

Actually, unless you've done this for yourself, you've proven nothing.
Coincidently if my aunt had a ####, she'd be my uncle.
It's a fact that depending where you are on earth that 'g' is 9.7m/s/s not 9.8...do you suppose the magnetic field is slightly off there? What a coincendence, no? As for your weight on the poles, take a magnet and a piece of iron, as you can see the iron is attracted to all parts of the magnet, not just the center.

Next you'll tell me helium balloons float because they are lighter than air and not because of diamagnetism...

I'm glad you're an electrical engineer and all but did you know my regular mechanic knows nothing about the internals of transmissions? Some mechanic he is huh?

Last edited by Lou on 24-May-2011 at 11:51 AM.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12467-magnetic-gravity-trick-grows-perfect-crystals.html
Quote:

Anti-gravity By adjusting the magnetic field produced by a 33-tesla magnet, the researchers were able to counteract the force of gravity, stilling the convection currents around the growing crystal. They were even able to create a sort of negative gravity and make the growth plume travel downwards.

Who would have thunk it?

@Lou

We've already discussed and disproven the 'anti-gravity' magnet. But hey bring up proven invalid evidence.

Here I'll summarize. -- at present there are 4 fundamental forces. Science would like them to be Unified but as of yet is unable to build an a Unified equation. Lou and MikeB claim EM is the Unified Equation and everything else is side-effects. Though they're unable to provide any proof or predictability.

I'm open to your ideas once you build a testable and falsible construct. It's not science until then it's a matter of faith. We can't disprove your faith. The ability to change descriptions and move goal posts is fairly easy as you have so solid constructs. So simply put don't claim it's the truth when you're unable to prove it's the truth.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou We've already discussed and disproven the 'anti-gravity' magnet. But hey bring up proven invalid evidence. Here I'll summarize. -- at present there are 4 fundamental forces. Science would like them to be Unified but as of yet is unable to build an a Unified equation. Lou and MikeB claim EM is the Unified Equation and everything else is side-effects. Though they're unable to provide any proof or predictability. I'm open to your ideas once you build a testable and falsible construct. It's not science until then it's a matter of faith. We can't disprove your faith. The ability to change descriptions and move goal posts is fairly easy as you have so solid constructs. So simply put don't claim it's the truth when you're unable to prove it's the truth.

Actually, it went: you dictated, I ignored.

χ is the magnetic susceptibility
ρ is the density of the material
g is the local gravitational acceleration (−9.8 m/s2 on Earth)
μ0 is the permeability of free space
B is the magnetic field
dB/dz is the rate of change of the magnetic field along the vertical axis.

Nothing has been proven to generate g, it just gets measured by other means, on the other side, g is not used.

Once you then look up spin stabilized magnetic levitation and think outside the box then perhaps you will realize why the earth and moon don't collide.

@MikeB

Quote:

The evidence is obvious.

Just as the evidence was obvious to Galen that if a man was suffering from blood loss due to injury, the cure was to bleed him. That way you would restore the balance of humours. We had to suffer this kind of gross stupidity for two millenia before people started to value experimental data ahead of opinion, and until you start to quote demonstrable reputable sources, or produce a valid mathematical formula, I will continue to consider you to be a relic of the dark ages, striving to spread ignorance and fear, and oppose enlightenment. Your "EM rules all" tripe is as relevant, and as factual as Beecher's phlogiston chemistry theories that were laid to rest by Lavoisier.

Quote:

The problem is you (and sadly alledgedly scientists in general) don't understand its true meaning.

I wish I was a clever so and so who knew all that there was to know about all branches of human endeavour. Why should my dentist have spent years studying dentistry when he could just ask MikeB? likewise my doctor, and even the plumber who just fixed a leaky tap for me? Should I tell my grandkids not to bother with university because MikeB already knows it all and there is no point in trying any more. All hail the new dark ages.

Quote:

can't even explain simple things such as the moon's orbit around both the sun and earth

This statement is a clear and demonstrable LIE that you and others continue to perpetuate to try to cover your own lack of understanding of simple mathematics. It does not matter how many times you repeat this LIE it will remain a LIE, and will never be anything other than a LIE. T-J has already linked to a site that refutes this LIE.

@ Lou

Quote:

Next you'll tell me helium balloons float because they are lighter than air and not because of diamagnetism...

Well I will admit it makes more sense to me that a balloon filled with a low density gas like Helium would provide a greater amount of lift than one filled with that well known diamagnetic substance called Lead. I am, however, willing to watch you provide a demonstration. Prove it by flying a Lead balloon, and I will accept it.

Quote:

I'm glad you're an electrical engineer and all but did you know my regular mechanic knows nothing about the internals of transmissions? Some mechanic he is huh?

I will now give you some amazing information that will absolutely astound you. Just because you are willing to trust your life in the hands of a mechanic who does not know his a*se from his elbow, it doesn't mean that nobody knows about the internals of transmissions. Somebody, somewhere had to design the parts used to build your car, and that person was not a mechanic, he was an engineer. There is a difference.

Quote:

Anti-gravity By adjusting the magnetic field produced by a 33-tesla magnet, the researchers were able to counteract the force of gravity, stilling the convection currents around the growing crystal. They were even able to create a sort of negative gravity and make the growth plume travel downwards.

The site where you get your data abot the suns interplanetary magnetic field quotes the suns dipole as 10^-4 Tesla. You claim that this magnetic field is strong enough to move The Earth at a range of 149598000 kilometres , yet you need a 33 tesla magnet at close quarters in freefall to influence a few atoms. I should have thought that the terms "strong magnetic field" and "microgravity" as used in the article, would have pointed out the detail that I always have to wake you up to. Orders of Magnitude

Last edited by Nimrod on 24-May-2011 at 03:01 PM.
Last edited by Nimrod on 24-May-2011 at 02:07 PM.
Last edited by Nimrod on 24-May-2011 at 01:48 PM.
Last edited by Nimrod on 24-May-2011 at 01:28 PM.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Lou

Quote:

You fail to grasp how simple EM can be amplified.

You fail to demonstrate that this is actually happening.

All of the independently sourced magnetometer readings indicate that it is not.

So, on your side of the debate, we have the suggestion that there is a global conspiracy to hide the True Power of Magnets from the gullible people of Earth who are also enslaved by space aliens from an invisible planet.

On our side of the debate, we have the scientific method.

Quote:

Next you'll tell me helium balloons float because they are lighter than air and not because of diamagnetism...

Wait, wait, wait - are you actually denying the fact that less dense objects float in a more dense medium?

Oh dear.

Quote:

By adjusting the magnetic field produced by a 33-tesla magnet, the researchers were able to counteract the force of gravity, stilling the convection currents around the growing crystal.

Think about that statement. A 33 tesla magnet can counteract the force of gravity, according to your link. Let's take that as true for the sake of argument.

Now, the strength of the Earth's magnetic field is a known value. We've measured it. It ranges from between 30 microtesla to 60 microtesla.

That's microtesla. 1000 times too weak.

How could it possibly be that you need a 33 tesla magnet to counter the effect of a 30 microtesla Earth?

Unless some other force is at work.

Gravity.

@MikeB

When will I get my answers to the geological evidence against Nibiru raised in post 172?

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote: @ Lou Quote: The problem is you (and sadly alledgedly scientists in general) don't understand its true meaning. I wish I was a clever so and so who knew all that there was to know about all branches of human endeavour. Why should my dentist have spent years studying dentistry when he could just ask Lou? likewise my doctor, and even the plumber who just fixed a leaky tap for me? Should I tell my grandkids not to bother with university because Lou already knows it all and there is no point in trying any more. All hail the new dark ages.

You have completely misquoted me here. Do you know who you are supposed to be replying to?

Quote:

Quote: can't even explain simple things such as the moon's orbit around both the sun and earth This statement is a clear and demonstrable LIE that you and others continue to perpetuate to try to cover your own lack of understanding of simple mathematics. It does not matter how many times you repeat this LIE it will remain a LIE, and will never be anything other than a LIE. T-J has already linked to a site that refutes this LIE.

here as well

Quote:

Quote: Next you'll tell me helium balloons float because they are lighter than air and not because of diamagnetism... Well I will admit it makes more sense to me that a balloon filled with a low density gas like Helium would provide a greater amount of lift than one filled with that well known diamagnetic substance called Lead. I am, however, willing to watch you provide a demonstration. Prove it by flying a Lead balloon, and I will accept it.

Sure, let's heat it up and turn it into a gas in order to fill the balloon properly.

Quote:

Quote: I'm glad you're an electrical engineer and all but did you know my regular mechanic knows nothing about the internals of transmissions? Some mechanic he is huh? I will now give you some amazing information that will absolutely astound you. Just because you are willing to trust your life in the hands of a mechanic who does not know his a*se from his elbow, it doesn't mean that nobody knows about the internals of transmissions. Somebody, somewhere had to design the parts used to build your car, and that person was not a mechanic, he was an engineer. There is a difference.

Clearly the point went over your head...

Quote:

Quote: Anti-gravity By adjusting the magnetic field produced by a 33-tesla magnet, the researchers were able to counteract the force of gravity, stilling the convection currents around the growing crystal. They were even able to create a sort of negative gravity and make the growth plume travel downwards. The site where you get your data abot the suns interplanetary magnetic field quotes the suns dipole as 10^-4 Tesla. You claim that this magnetic field is strong enough to move The Earth at a range of 149598000 kilometres , yet you need a 33 tesla magnet at close quarters in freefall to influence a few atoms. I should have thought that the terms "strong magnetic field" and "microgravity" as used in the article, would have pointed out the detail that I always have to wake you up to. Orders of Magnitude

Orders of Magnitude are what you get when you spin a large celestial magnet.

@T-J

Quote:

T-J wrote: @Lou Quote: You fail to grasp how simple EM can be amplified. You fail to demonstrate that this is actually happening.

Your inability to read has reached new heights. Induction was clearly lost on you...

Quote:

All of the independently sourced magnetometer readings indicate that it is not.

Add up that magnetometer reading for every point-mass that you occupy.

Quote:

So, on your side of the debate, we have the suggestion that there is a global conspiracy to hide the True Power of Magnets from the gullible people of Earth who are also enslaved by space aliens from an invisible planet.

Here you go putting words in people's mouths. Good stragedy.

Quote:

On our side of the debate, we have the scientific method.

Which invented dark matter.

Quote:

Quote: Next you'll tell me helium balloons float because they are lighter than air and not because of diamagnetism... Wait, wait, wait - are you actually denying the fact that less dense objects float in a more dense medium? Oh dear.

Here you go putting words in people's mouths again.
http://www.universetoday.com/44743/up-up-and-away-helium-balloon-telescope-explores-the-sun/
See how far helium balloons can go despite less pressure in the air and carrying a payload?

Quote:

Quote: By adjusting the magnetic field produced by a 33-tesla magnet, the researchers were able to counteract the force of gravity, stilling the convection currents around the growing crystal. Think about that statement. A 33 tesla magnet can counteract the force of gravity, according to your link. Let's take that as true for the sake of argument. Now, the strength of the Earth's magnetic field is a known value. We've measured it. It ranges from between 30 microtesla to 60 microtesla. That's microtesla. 1000 times too weak. How could it possibly be that you need a 33 tesla magnet to counter the effect of a 30 microtesla Earth? Unless some other force is at work. Gravity.

Remember that "orders of magnitude" phase Nimrod keeps throwing around?
It's that small at one point mass but spans volume. When you spin a magnet, you increase the range of it's magnetic potency. So now you have to sum that small value for every point mass of volume you are trying to affect which is what adds up to Tesla(s). That is the real value of the 'gravitational effect' that gives you your weight. I thought this would be obvious in the formula I posted for BrianK a short time ago. The scientic method clearly involves ignoring what you don't like, it seems.

Understanding Kepler's fictive empirical law:



This relation exists, but the understanding is missing (as the arrows indicate). An object moving closer to the sun will go faster due to the stronger repulsive force and exerting forces produced by the sun's heliospheric current.

It continues to go round the sun due to the flexible magnetic "ropes". When these ropes shorten the electrons are closer towards each other wanting to stretch (repulsion) and at the further point are overstretched increasing the force which wants to contract these elastic "ropes". Hence planets and comets show circular motions around stars.

Does a comet when moving closer to the sun light up due to attraction or repulsive force?

http://astronomy.nmsu.edu/aklypin/WebSite/images/tail-comet.jpg

The comet's tail which always points away from the sun makes it all too obvious, it is being repulsed by the sun's heliospheric current.

Back to Nibiru:

A brown dwarf star in an orbit like a comet will behave similar to a great extend. Its atmosphere will be blown away from the sun which I think produced the blood colored rain as decribed in the ancient Chinese book of Mozi and around the same time the blood colored rivers/lakes as described during the plagues of Egypt. Also firely hail and total darkness for Egypt for 3 days while the Chinese burnt due to the sun not setting for several day => Earth rotation stoppage.

Bamboo Annals historical records:

"In the fifteenth year of Emperor Gui, one night there was a shower of meteors. There was an earthquake. The Yi and Luo Rivers dried up.In the thirtieth year of Emperor Gui, Mount Qu collapsed."

"yellow fog, a dim sun, then three suns, frost in July, famine, and the withering of all five cereals."

"Heaven has sent an evildoer down to earth for ten suns appear in the sky."

Passing between Earth and Venus, Nibiru should have been at the Chinese's side of the earth during passage (as it was daytime pointing towards the sun).

So one is the sun, the second is Nibiru and the rest are its moons/planets.

Chinese new year Dragon dance (understand that the dragon must follow the orb):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apimBqgTeBA

Mars' surface (without the enormous amounts of water the earth has) is entirely covered by this red dust.

Last edited by MikeB on 24-May-2011 at 04:08 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 24-May-2011 at 02:52 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 24-May-2011 at 02:38 PM.

Universal gravity:



If it were true would equal:

@Lou

Quote:

You have completely misquoted me here. Do you know who you are supposed to be replying to?

Apologies for the confusion. Incorrect detail corrected.


Quote:

Quote: Well I will admit it makes more sense to me that a balloon filled with a low density gas like Helium would provide a greater amount of lift than one filled with that well known diamagnetic substance called Lead. I am, however, willing to watch you provide a demonstration. Prove it by flying a Lead balloon, and I will accept it. Sure, let's heat it up and turn it into a gas in order to fill the balloon properly.

You mean reduce its density until it is lighter than air?
There is a liquid that is more diamagnetic than Lead. By your hypothesis it should be lighter than Lead, however a bar of Lead will float on the top of this liquid, instead of sinking.

Quote:

Clearly the point went over your head...

Wasn't the point that you were trying to make that, I as an electrical engineer know nothing about the basic principles of electromagnetic force. That I have neglected to multiply a force by a factor of at least 1000 in order to make it fit a discredited hypothesis.

Quote:

Orders of Magnitude are what you get when you spin a large celestial magnet.

What you get when you spin a large celestial magnet is a spinning magnet. I have already described the operation of an induction motor before and the necessity for aligned magnetic fields. Since this does not match your religious beliefs you will continue to multiply the minute EM fields by whatever imaginary factor necessary to balance the books.
Quote:

The scientic method clearly involves ignoring what you don't like, it seems.

Once upon a time Newtons theories were held to be a complete description of gravity and planetary motion. Then somebody noticed discrepancies and came up with a better theory. then the scientific method supported Einstein and relegated Newtons theory to a method of producing a quick estimate. Liking theories doesn't come into it. The scientific method accepts theories that work and rejects theories that collapse under the weight of their own internal inconsistencies. I can fully accept that we have not achieved the pinnacle of all human understanding, and that there will someday be a better explanation than the one offered by Einstein, but your current pile of claptrap is NOT it. Go away and come back when you have some numbers that work.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

Sedna's orbit:



Note the orbit is tilted like Pluto in the direction of...........

ORION

As I stated before I think Sedna may actually orbit Nibiru and the sun in a figure 8 style orbit instead of what is shown above (which is an estimate assuming Nibiru doesn't exist).

Currently it is in a rather circular motion around the sun (for which it may stay after Nibiru's passage depending on various factors involving its distance to Nibiru and the sun at that point). What would make it want to suddenly go off track and wander far away from our solar system's main star?

A brown dwarf star, the sun's binary companion againn moving back in the direction of Orion after passage.

@MikeB

Quote:

Back to Nibiru:

Time for more fairy stories.
Quote:

"In the fifteenth year of Emperor Gui, one night there was a shower of meteors. There was an earthquake. The Yi and Luo Rivers dried up.In the thirtieth year of Emperor Gui, Mount Qu collapsed." "yellow fog, a dim sun, then three suns, frost in July, famine, and the withering of all five cereals." "Heaven has sent an evildoer down to earth for ten suns appear in the sky." Passing between Earth and Venus, Nibiru should have been at the Chinese's side of the earth during passage (as it was daytime pointing towards the sun). So one is the sun, the second is Nibiru and the rest are its moons/planets.

Do you have any Geological EVIDENCE to support this opium dream or are you just making stuff up like your hero, Sitchin did.
If http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apimBqgTeBA is your evidence for Nibiru then I refute your theory.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

Quote:

is your evidence for Nibiru then I refute your theory.

Funny!

But that's totally fine with me as I am no extremist imposing my views onto others.

I have provided enough reasons why I hold a different viewpoint, so can you do the same?