@CritAnime

Quote:

I just find it sad that he has resorted to the sick depravity of one person to be the crux of his entire agrument.

Which is the dilemma. Should we attack a mentally ill person because they say highly offensive things? If it was Tourette's he had, we'd cut him some slack.

But on the other hand, should his ramblings go unanswered or unchallenged when they are as offensive as they are?

That's why I keep leaving and coming back. It's very difficult to just walk away.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 09-Nov-2012 at 01:04 AM.

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@SpaceDruid

I don't condone attacking him. But I don't think his arguments shouldn't go unchecked. I hope he see's sense on this and just comes around to the fact that what he has done is overstep the bounds of decency on this one.

I dunno I feel really dissapointed that it has come to the point where he would do it to be honest.

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@CritAnime

"see sense"

Did you read all this thread?

Even if Jesus returned in the flesh today, D would say he wasn't a real Christian when he started talking about tolerance to all men as he did in his own time.

The best one can hope for is he gets tired and stops posting. Nothing is going to make him accept he is in the wrong. Not even the second coming.

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@SpaceDruid

Well I always try and hope that when someone steps over a boundary they would atleast see sense. Maybe he will maybe he won't right now I think it's just pathetic that someone who claims to be so well planted as BigD has would be more civile.

But then again he is spouting utter bollocks.

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The majority of the minority don't want it! It's an arguement not only 2012 but from 1910 as well.

@BrianK

Wow it's scarry just how much of that has been spouted on here. Just change Woman Suffrage with Gay Marriage and off you go.

Last edited by CritAnime on 09-Nov-2012 at 02:14 AM.

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@CritAnime & BrianK

You two really need to accept that this is nothing to do with 'equality' as this delusion has gone on long enough. You have inadvertently boarded a 'band-wagon' set in motion by the Gay Liberation Front back in 1971 and now you can't get off! How can you keep comparing this situation to Suffrage and the Civil Rights Movement led by Martin Luther King?! As explained in previous posts people primarily question there sexuality due to broken family situations while they are growing up. They experiment with other forms of relationship in order to try and feel some sort of love, stability and acceptance that was missing in their childhood. Ultimately it as a CHOICE whether they embrace this 'lifestyle' or not and many return to a heterosexual lifestyle after their dalliance with homosexuality. They carry emotional scars however and no doubt find it harder to forge committed long term relationships. Yet you want to purpetuate th myth that all homosexuals form monogamous stable and long term partnerships comparable to married ones!!!?! That it hard to justify when holding it up against the civil partnership take-up data and the fact that only 39% of homosexuals see the redefinition as a priority!

As I've already pointed out to you people are BORN female while others are BORN with black skin. The difference is that no one is born homosexual!

Last edited by BigD on 09-Nov-2012 at 07:45 AM.

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@BigD

Quote:

Jesus came to save sinners (all of us) from our sin which condemns us all to hell.

"There is no God but Allah, and Muhammed is his messenger." I could also post claims from every religious creed from arount the world, each of them claiming to be uniquely and exclusively "the one true faith" Just because you have swallowed this particular crock of sh*t, it doesn't mean that you get the right to force feed it to the rest of us.

Quote:

The Bile contains teachings on Elders and Deacons within individual churches but does not stipulate a global or even national leader!

A bit of a Freudian slip there old boy, but very approriate for you. You clearly follow the lessons written in the Bile

Quote:

If this example of families gone wrong is the only way to make you see the level of pain and suffering this inane and unwarranted redefinition will cause then so be it.

If there is any truth to your so called theory of family life, then you must have had a very disturbed childhood, since you have turned out to be such a bitter, twisted, lying, odious, hate filled, fascistic, homophobic, bigoted, self-righteous excuse for a human being.

Quote:

You have inadvertently boarded a 'band-wagon' set in motion by the Gay Liberation Front back in 1971

The aims of that organisation are revealed in the name of that organisation, or are you so filled with hate that you fail to understand tha meaning of the word liberation. They are not attempting to make it compulsory. Please accept my assurance that there is nothing inadvertent about my decision to take a stand against your theo-fascist oppression of a minority group for entirely altruistic reasons, and I suspect that this also applies to other posters on this thread.

Quote:

As explained in previous posts people primarily question there sexuality due to broken family situations while they are growing up.

You keep making this assertion, but you have yet to present any evidence to support your insults, lies, and accusations.
Where is the evidence that giving equality to homosexuals will destroy the concept of marriage.

Quote:

As I've already pointed out to you people are BORN female while others are BORN with black skin. The difference is that no one is born homosexual!

Once again, you have no evidence to support your assertion but even if we do ignore the evidence to the contrary provided by BrianK and T-J about brain structure, there remains the fact that freedom of CHOICE is not limited to a privileged few. You CHOOSE to believe that the 7,000,000,000 people who are not part of your exclusive little group are sub-human and not deserving respect or decent treatment. There is in fact no real difference between your position, and that of the morally bankrupt cowards who shot a 14 year old girl because she wanted to CHOOSE to get an education.


P.S. Just a quick piece of video from somebody who has evidence contradicting your assertion. Watch and learn.

Last edited by Nimrod on 09-Nov-2012 at 12:27 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

You two really need to accept that this is nothing to do with 'equality' as this delusion has gone on long enough

The delusion is yours. Minorities deserve equal rights. In many US States gays can be rejected from housing and rejected from jobs because of their sexual choice. Having sex has nothing to do with one's profession. And until a couple of years ago the US Military rejected people for being gay. Including firing Afgani translaters. The logic here is somehow being gay was worse than being a terrorist. I'm glad the miliary wised up.

How is it comparable to suffrage and civil rights? Look at the arguements you use. If you replace the word 'gay' with black or with women then go review history you find the EXACT same arguments to minimize other minorities are in play to minimize the gay minority.

Quote:

As explained in previous posts people primarily question there sexuality due to broken family situations while they are growing up

As previously stated I personally know gays that are not from broken homes but very stable homes. Therefore this is a lie. Not all gays come from broken homes. Nor do broken homes promote gayness as many straighst I know are from broken homes. Why do you break #9 of your own rules and Bear False Witness? Perhaps you're not a Christian if you can't keep their morals.

Quote:

The difference is that no one is born homosexual!

Homosexual is a natural condition of many species including human. Sexuality is a combination of physical and environmental factors. Saying no one is born that way is incorrect from the standpoing we just don't have a full view of how sexuality is determined. What we can fairly say is not everything that leads to sexual selection has been properly identified.

Last edited by BrianK on 09-Nov-2012 at 05:31 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 09-Nov-2012 at 12:48 PM.

@BigD

Again you skirt round the issue with jumbled meanings and baseless facts in order to project a sense of moral and knowledgable superiotiry. When, as many have pointed out, the arguments you are presenting are interchangable with any social strife that has happened withing the course of Humanity.

The fact remains that you have yet to provide me with one single shred of evidence that supports your Homosexuality as a lifestyle choice standing. Your argument that all Homosexuals come from broken homes and abusive families is flawed as that implies that I would have to be a Homosexual as my parents split when I was 12. And I am not a Homosexual myself. I can also recount many people that have also come from "broken" homes that are not Homosexual. or been abused that are not Homosexuals. Your clutching at basless facts to try and keep everything nice and cosy in your mind.

Here is a little scenario for you from my nursing profession.

Patient X has been brought into the trusts main Accident and Emergency department after been seriously assaulted by a group of individuals. Patient X is admitted to a ward where futher specialist treatment for the injuries sustained are carried out. It is at this point the patients family has arrived and Patient X has become agitated and demands that their family be ejected from the property. Clearly shaken by the ordeal Patient X. After treatment of wounds is completed Patient X is allowed to go home but is also placed under care of local mental health leason teams. A week later Patient X is readmitted to hospital with more sevear trauma including facial and abdominal lacerations caused by a small sharp instument. Patient X is given immediate critical intervention and makes a recovery. While in the care of the hospital the patient admits to ten years of physical and mental abuse by their family and other members of their community after admitting their Homosxexuality. For fear of their life Patient X was forced into never revealing this. They also revealed that upto admitting their Homosexuality they had the typical family life. Appropriate steps are taken to protect Patient X's welfare including contact with police, social services and local mental health leason teams.

This is just a snippet of a bigger scenario that we play in order to keep ourselves sharpened to the abuse and intolerance that we see. It also a sad fact that this is also a more common than what people would like to beleive. Spin this back 50 years and this exact same scenario would have been with the black and asian communities. Spin it back further and it would have been woman suffrage.

The same scenarios are played out each day to the same tune but with different beats. This is why I know what you say about abuse and broken families is complete and utter rubbish. I see crap like this every single day. I have seen people treated horribly because of the colour of their skin, their religous beleifs, the sexual orientation. Hell I have seen this because someone was overweight. But I have seen people come out the other end far stronger.

You can not say that all people who are abused by their parents, their neighbours, their community members, where from broken families or other redundent arguments are going to be Homosexuals. It's a baseless lie that people like yourself fabricate in order to feel safe in their little worlds.

Gay marriage isn't goint to topple democracy, it isn't going to kill civilisation, it isn't going to suddenly spawn a new plague or bring what ever sort of apocalyps your releigion says will hapen. Just like all the other social strifes didn't. The only thing that will change is that people like you, with the petty little views will eventually die out.

And bringing this slightly back on topic. 3.7 million GBP isn't going to break the bank. So why not just get it over and done with.

Last edited by CritAnime on 09-Nov-2012 at 04:47 PM.
Last edited by CritAnime on 09-Nov-2012 at 04:44 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: The difference is that no one is born homosexual!

Would you care to post conclusive and definitive scientific (or otherwise) proof of that statement please...

_________________

@Franko

Quote:

Would you care to post conclusive and definitive scientific (or otherwise) proof of that statement please...

Would you like to post conclusive proof to the contrary? My basis for that statement comes from the fact that no homosexual gene has been found. Also all of the friends I have who have become practising homosexuals have had absent or bad father figures in their lives or suffered abuse at the hands of extended family which can't be a coincidence. A few have either dabbled in homosexuality following a bad relationship break down or a divorce and at least two tried the homosexual lifestyle for a couple of years before finding a partner of the opposite sex again. These are NOT the actions of people who are born with a predesignated homosexuality.

Plus the programme; Gay to Straight clearly shows the young men attempting to come to terms with their unwanted homosexual feelings as far more well balanced and true to themselves than the men who gave into their homosexual lusts and joined the homosexual lifestyle. Despite a severely biased BBC presenter this was still obvious to the viewer.

Also, a sense of 'Gay Pride' fostered by events and parades is required to keep the homosexual community going! This is presumably because their consciences would kick back in if they ever paused to ponder their actions and considered what they really want from their relationships!

The Gay Liberation Front knew that a sense of 'pride' was required to hold the community together back in the 1970s. Looks like they achieved their aim!

Taken from the Gay Liberation Front: Manifesto, 1971
Quote:

The starting point of our liberation must be to rid ourselves of the oppression which lies in the head of every one of us. This means freeing our heads from self oppression and male chauvinism, and no longer organising our lives according to the patterns with which we are indoctrinated by straight society. It means that we must root out the idea that homosexuality is bad, sick or immoral, and develop a gay pride.

Last edited by BigD on 10-Nov-2012 at 03:42 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Nov-2012 at 03:38 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Nov-2012 at 03:37 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Nov-2012 at 03:36 PM.

_________________
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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Also all of the friends I have who have become practising homosexuals have had absent or bad father figures in their lives or suffered abuse at the hands of extended family which can't be a coincidence.

And how many people is that? One, two, three or none? There is records upon records that show people who have been abused and very few are homosexual. I think your basing your entire assumptions on the very tiny amount of, as you describe, "practicing" Homosexuals that your have "encountered".

Ok lets be honest.

Quote:

Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.

That from the Royal College of Psychiatrists. So based on what you say this information from a recognized medical body is complete nonsense? Because to be honest I would take their word for it over the rantings of some internet poll, blog or ranting nutter.

BigD:Quote:

The Gay Liberation Front knew that a sense of 'pride' was required to hold the community together back in the 1970s. Looks like they achieved their aim! Taken from the Gay Liberation Front: Manifesto, 1971 Quote: The starting point of our liberation must be to rid ourselves of the oppression which lies in the head of every one of us. This means freeing our heads from self oppression and male chauvinism, and no longer organising our lives according to the patterns with which we are indoctrinated by straight society. It means that we must root out the idea that homosexuality is bad, sick or immoral, and develop a gay pride.

And your point been? Doesn't all communities take pride in what they are? Don't all Catholics and Christians parade their religious standing proudly? How is this any different from a Gay person been proud about who they are? Why shouldn't a gay person be proud of who they are?

BigD:Quote:

Plus the programme; Gay to Straight clearly shows the young men attempting to come to terms with their unwanted homosexual feelings as far more well balanced and true to themselves than the men who gave into their homosexual lusts and joined the homosexual lifestyle. Despite a severely biased BBC presenter this was still obvious to the viewer.

Was she biased or whas she been objective. Also the change your sexuality camps are utter nonsense. They are nothing more than a way of bullied Homosexuals to be further bullied into becoming something that they are not. And further more they are frowned upon by the major health organisations of the world.

Quote:

No major mental health professional organization has sanctioned efforts to change sexual orientation and virtually all of them have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that purport to change sexual orientation. These include the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American Counseling Association, National Association of Social Workers in the USA, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, and the Australian Psychological Society. The American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concerns that the positions espoused by NARTH are not supported by the science and create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.

Last edited by CritAnime on 10-Nov-2012 at 04:26 PM.
Last edited by CritAnime on 10-Nov-2012 at 04:18 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

Plus the programme; Gay to Straight clearly shows the young men attempting to come to terms with their unwanted homosexual feelings as far more well balanced and true to themselves than the men who gave into their homosexual lusts and joined the homosexual lifestyle. Despite a severely biased BBC presenter this was still obvious to the viewer.

Have you considered that the only reason that these feelings are unwanted is because people like yourself continuously tell them that there is something wrong with them for feeling that way.

Quote:

Also, a sense of 'Gay Pride' fostered by events and parades is required to keep the homosexual community going! This is presumably because their consciences would kick back in if they ever paused to ponder their actions and considered what they really want from their relationships!

LGBT pride events only exist because people like yourself keep telling them that they should be ashamed of themselves. You don't rub their faces in it and they won't rub your face in it.

P.S.

Is this you on the train.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64bfM38zxfM

@Rob

Quote:

P.S. Is this you on the train. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64bfM38zxfM

Lol. That was my first though when seeing that vid as well.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 10-Nov-2012 at 05:51 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

Would you like to post conclusive proof to the contrary? My basis for that statement comes from the fact that no homosexual gene has been found.

The problem with 'no gay gene' is the unstated major assumption that we know the relation and function of every gene. We don't know that. Another unstated major assumption is the genes are everything. That's definitely not true. DNA is important, certainly. RNA is important as well in the development. The fetal development is, also, influenced by external forces such as chemical conditions in the womb. Things we cannot replicate with today's science. That being said we must look elsewhere to see if there's some natural causes. What we find is 1K+ species have some sort of same-sex relations. Religion tells us that only man has freewill. If that's true then homosexuality must be innate to animals. Which, BTW, humans are animals. Also, science has studied gay brains and their structures are more akin to straight members of the opposite sex. This would lead us to indicate that more than likely there are non-choice factors at play.

Now this isn't to say sexuality couldn't be a choice. Psychology demonstrates that sexuality is a spectrum between only straight and only gay. Many people are different places along this path. So indeed for some choosing may be an option. But, that doesn't mean the that it would be unnatural for that person. It appears to be the needle on their sexuality spectrum is closer to center (bisexual) than others may be.

Quote:

Also all of the friends I have who have become practising homosexuals have had absent or bad father figures in their lives or suffered abuse at the hands of extended family which can't be a coincidence

Perhaps it is. Why I say this is I have gay friends that never experienced what you describe. I have straight friends with the experience you describe. Now I commend you for blaming divorced straight men as the cause for gayness. But, it's clearly not a predictor with absolute certainty.

Quote:

Also, a sense of 'Gay Pride' fostered by events and parades is required to keep the homosexual community going!

But it's not required to keep homosexuals going. Christians have been killing, torturing, and discriminating against homosexuals for 2K years. Way before 'Gay Pride' events. There's nothing innately wrong with a community gathering. I wonder how your church community would survive without Sunday weekly and their many other gatherings. This is presumably because the religious discarded rationalability would kick back in if they ever paused to ponder their actions.

Gay Pride events came about because Christians and others were forcing Gays behind closed doors with fear, discrimination, torture, and death.

Last edited by BrianK on 10-Nov-2012 at 06:09 PM.

@BigD

Quote:

Also all of the friends I have who have become practising homosexuals have had absent or bad father figures in their lives or suffered abuse at the hands of extended family which can't be a coincidence

Since your sample size is so limited, and you are probably ignoring people who had abusive backgrounds but didn't admit to homosexuality in order to be spared your ignorant tirades, yes it can be a coincidence. The sample sizes used by reputable scientists are far larger, and the reputable scientists follow the evidence to find the answer, rather than your policy of picking the answer and then ignoring any contadictory evidence. The ratio of troubled to stable background is the same among homosexuals as heterosexuals. And that is not a coincidence.
I would also point out that sometimes the abuse arises out of the admission of homosexuality, not the other way around.

Quote:

Plus the programme; Gay to Straight clearly shows the young men attempting to come to terms with their unwanted homosexual feelings

Actually what I saw was a crude form of brain washing, but if it was the freely made choice of these individuals to undergo this exercise in bullying, then I wish them well. If however they choose not to undergo this mental torture, and embrace the LGBT lifestyle you see it as your place to override their choice. You keep claiming they are free to choose to reject their homosexual tendencies, the rest of the world accept that true freedom of choice includes the option to choose to enjoy their homosexuality.

Quote:

Despite a severely biased BBC presenter

Also known as anybody who is not a theo-fascist somewhere to the right of the Daily Fail, or Torygraph. Pointing out that the so called treatment is rejected by competent professional bodies around the world is not biased reporting.

Quote:

The Gay Liberation Front knew that a sense of 'pride' was required to hold the community together back in the 1970s. Looks like they achieved their aim!

Prior to 1967, homosexual activity in UK was punishable by imprisonment, or "therapy" even more barbaric than the Gay to Straight program that you seem so proud to endorse. A policy that caused Alan Turings death. When a group, or just a single individual, has been the victim of persecution, it is often necessary to bolster their self-esteem and let them know that it is not their fault, and they did not "deserve" to be persecuted and victimised.

One day, gay pride events will be a thing of the past, as will womens rights groups and anti-racist organisations. Hopefully this will not be because these various sections of society have been forced back into the subservient positions that you believe they should be satisfied with, but because there is no further need for them as all of the battles have been won. While I am fully aware that people do not choose their gender or their skin colour, I am more than aware that theofascist bigots do CHOOSE to discriminate against minorities, based on their personal prejudice.

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@CritAnime

Quote:

Quote: Quote: Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice. That from the Royal College of Psychiatrists. So based on what you say this information from a recognized medical body is complete nonsense? Because to be honest I would take their word for it over the rantings of some internet poll, blog or ranting nutter.

That quote is actually from Bell and Weinberg, 1978 and all that has happened is that this 34 year old quote has been plastered on the Royal College of Psychiatrists website as if it's proof. It is just one psychiatrists opinion from over three decades ago that demonstrates a world view that no doubt the liberal psychiatrists at the Royal College want to project to the world. There are many quotes/web sites that demonstrate that parenting has a lot to do with people perceived sexuality!

Bearing in mind that every person I know that has dabbled in homosexual activity has had issues with their father with him either being absent, leaving after divorcing their mother or simply being an alcoholic or cross-dresser this is a completely naive quote to make and is probably from some sheltered liberal academic not unlike Rowan Williams!

Last edited by BigD on 10-Nov-2012 at 08:05 PM.

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@Thread

How about this STUDY;

Quote:

A July 2012 scholarly, peer-reviewed study in the journal, Social Science Research, by Professor Mark Regnerus, of the University of Texas, Austin, found that: • Children of lesbian mothers are nearly 12 times as likely to say they were sexually touched by a parent or adult as those raised in intact, biological families. • 31% of those raised by lesbian mothers and 25 % raised by homosexual fathers were raped, compared to 8% of those raised in intact, biological families. • 90% of children raised in a normative household were heterosexual, whereas 61% raised by a lesbian parent and 71% raised by a homosexual father were not.

_________________
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@BigD

Did you just randomly post a link to a journal and make up the figures? Because I have just been through the results and that is not shown in that report. So if you would like to show the specific sections that highlight them the please do. I would be more than happy to read it again. Also this is the same report that has received a letter from many schollars saying that it is fundementally flawed (http://www.impactprogram.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Letter-to-the-editors-and-advisory-editors-of-Social-Science-Research.pdf) so I do question the validity of this report.

Oh and my report was from 2007 and was presented to the Church of England. Just so you know.
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/Submission%20to%20the%20Church%20of%20England.pdf

Last edited by CritAnime on 10-Nov-2012 at 09:48 PM.

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