@NutsAboutAmiga

PCI was faster than Zorro3, but the proposed Zorro4 was even faster.

At the time of the A1200 release, graphics card were all ISA standard as PCI was not released until after 1992 (and only really became popular after 94), therefore I very much doubt that they could have had the foresight to include it whilst designing it.

VHS, betamax? People stop caring without choices.

@pavlor

Here is some interesting reading, read the part about AGA.

http://www.ppa.pl/gry/interview-with-richard-costello-coder-of-mortal-kombat-primal-rage-terminator-2-golden-axe-gauntlet-2.html

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@NutsAboutAmiga

"Autoconfig TM was revolutionary back in the late 80's, "

Plug and play came around 1995, untill then there was nothing to compare. Even today some people (like David Haynie) think that Amiga autoconfig does some things better, even though it has not been really developed since early 90's.

"ISA was slow and bad, but PCI was faster then Zorro III"
Yes, but PCI really came after Z3. David Haynie said that they would have gone PCI route pretty soon, if not with the next board.

"AGA was mistake because it came whit only 2mb of Ram, while PCI graphic cards came whit 4mb back in the early 90's"

AGA was ok when compared y1994 standard PC offerings. Did something more, had more RAM, etc, while lacked in some areas.

"AGA was also too slow, even whit all the custom chips, you can see it many of 3D games at the time"
AGA was not too slow for 3D games, as it has been shown afterwards. But the lack of fast ram was big mistake for CD32 and A1200. Fast ram doubled the speed when the CPU did not fight with GFX for the bandwidth.
+ 20-33Mhz030 would have been great for A1200.

"also many games came whit fewer colors, or fewer animations then the PC version of same games."
Mainly the fault of game makers. Longer animations become possible with hard drives and CD-ROM.
In 1994 Amigas could play full screen 32color (dithered, good looking) video if HDD was available. Amigas IDE interface was 2x faster than on standard x86.
AGA had the palette of 16M colors when mainstream PCs had only 262144 color palette, that's why 256 color Amiga games and photo tools gave better results than on x86.
Also... for photos I found 1440x580 262144c/16Mpalette give better picture quality than 24bit on 800x600 or high color on basic Mac.

Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Jul-2012 at 06:50 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Jul-2012 at 06:49 PM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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@KimmoK

Most of 3D games that first came was running in 4x4 or 2x2 pixel on a standard 68020, c2p takes much CPU power, also you most remember that Amiga games often used 320x200 while PC games where using 640x480 in early 90's.

HAM8 made pictures bury compared to 16bit graphics, 256 colors pictures only looked better on Amiga because picture was not as shape on TV as it was on the PC monitor.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Jul-2012 at 07:00 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Jul-2012 at 06:58 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Here is some interesting reading, read the part about AGA.

Well, good interview, but I don´t think it supports your statement. More memory doesn´t mean only Chip RAM. 2 MB Chip and 2 MB Fast could be fine.

Sure, for workstation like A4000, AGA was horribly outdated. For sub 800 USD home computer it was average in 1992. Only real weakness was lack of chunky graphics.

@NutsAboutAmiga

@all

Let's stay on topic please!

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

while PC games where using 640x480 in early 90's.

I fear your "early 90's" are 1994/1995 and newer. Even 80486DX (common early 1995 configuration) can´t run Doom-like game in resolution better than 320x200 with acceptable frame rate

@xe54

Quote:

Let's stay on topic please!

Sorry.

@xe54

@all

Let's stay on topic please![/quote]

So why did you wander off topic !!!

Back to the topic now...

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@Franko

I fell into the trap! [/idiot mode off]

Apologies!

Last edited by xe54 on 19-Jul-2012 at 07:21 PM.

@Cod3r

"but the good old Amiga OS (and I do emphasize OLD) is more expensive than Micro$oft high-end desktop OS's at retail."

Yes, but when we are a small niche, some R&D costs need to be filled, what other can we do? More open sourcing OS parts? Perhaps.

>Sure, we can compare to Lamborghini or Aston Martin, but those brands at least have the value to back up their prices. Amiga doesn't.

AmigaOS likes let you do things in different way. I prefer the AOS/MOS way over any other.
But sure that's just wery small selling point, when there's a lot of things our niche can not fully handle now.. btw, you can help on that!

>Imagine me selling you a brand-new luxury car at a price higher than a Bentley, but it doesn't have air conditioning, and the radio works sometimes (i.e. "it's still in development") and it runs with a motorcycle engine.

my SAM system.... it's like original VW beetle with double weber carburettors and 2000cc cylinders.
It is not able to pull the heavies loads on a trailer, but from 0 to 60mph it accelerates faster than any other car (including 4 wheel drive lamborgini ones), it can enter and exit corners very nicely and I have total control of how it behaves (no traction control etc driving aids on my way) it gives a lot enjoyment, etc...

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// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@xe54

Good idea, I think I can go on and on about that off topic subject.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Jul-2012 at 11:48 PM.

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@pavlor

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@xe54

Quote:

xe54 wrote: @Franko I fell into the trap! [/idiot mode off] Apologies!

It's one of those things that could go on in an endless loop and you don't have to be an idiot to get caught up in it...

On topic though, you mentioned in your earlier post about your concept of building a type of "stack" based hardware system while it sounds like a perfectly good and plausible idea to me, it kinda puts it into the same category as building things Amigawise for the PPC, ARM etc...

There are already an number of this type of hardware available for those who prefer "NG" stuff so to me personally the original posters idea is far more interesting and welcome as he has said it's 68K based as far as the coding goes but implemented on newer technology...

That to me is the best route to go, as it's looking like the NatAmi will never see the light of day and even at the guesstimate prices that were put about of around 600 Euros, I would have been more than happy to buy one or more if it lived up to it's claimed specs...

Yes there is the MiniMig and FPGA board but the more options for us "Classic" users the better (same can be said for NG users too I suppose), I just wish & hope someone whom is working on these various projects will actually just go ahead and start producing something that we the end users can actually buy, instead of posting about it forever and nothing ever comes to fruition at the end of the day...

None of us are getting any younger and at the rate things move in Amigaland they'll have to stick most of us potential customers in suspended animation until something is finally ready that we can buy and so they can still have a customer base that actually remembers the Amiga...

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@Franko

I mentioned the stack based computer as a far away in the future concept.

I generally produce designs based on future technologies for concepts, usually projected about a decade into the future, dependent on the client.

The concept I mentioned is completely off topic :)

I mentioned it to stimulate the creative minds of the technorati!

You have to get your mind past the idea of hardware restrictions... In this concept you could add six stacks for example, each with a different CPU : x86, ARM, Sparc, x64 whatever, it won't make a difference as the entire OS augments these capabilities into simple devices.

Deeper still is that your computer can share the cycles of other idle computers on your network, or the internet itself :)

If the Amiga wishes to be truly NG, these are the types of ideas that it takes.

Exciting times await us either way :D

But, back on topic, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

@xe54

Maybe we could make a new sort of connection for our hardware also.

Serial, parallel, coax, lan, wifi,...

Microwaves perhaps?

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Yes but does Open() keep the string pointer in a global list or something like that?

It directly is passed to filesystem.

So dos.library is actually very broken. Perhaps there should be AllocDosStringObject() to allocate buffer for filenames. And maybe AllocDosBufferObject() to use as temporary space for Read/Write commands, just like we have AllocDosObject() to allocate struct FileInfoBlock.

I dont know who made AmigaOS 2.0 but he certainly werent very clever.

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@billt

Quote:

Who can submit Aros license to OSI for approval consideration?

an attempt is en course already:

http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7412&forum=4&post_id=71599#forumpost71599

Hold on, a multistack system that can multiple elements of code?

Isnt that what I was asking about back in 2000 when Tao released the first working implementations of the virtualised hardware over network style intent, and I was asking, in that case, can we look forward to Datatypes for executables, so that you would have one metaclass for x86, another for PPC, another for SH etc, that were using the virtualisation layer for run time bidirectional transcoding so that anynthing would run on anything without further work, because the options I was also asking on human programmers entering their methods as abstract code into teh computer so the computer could carry out an ever increasing amount of the human work, and hopefully with the memory and what if additions, learn and teach itself.

As for wanting a computer expected in ten years time?. .Id damn well hope it was the equivalent as Leonardo Da Vinci, fully capable of learning by processing any existing code, image, music composition, literature and so there for far more capable than any mere human.

Especially as 12 months later, you can put twice the processing capacity in, and Exponentially thereafter for decades.

By 2060 we should have a 1 cubic centimetre CPU capable of running the entire planetary human population in realtime simulation for no more than 1 watt of power.

Of course, Id expect far more efficint systems to come along after.

How do you want to support Amiga, hardware and software, and do you really want it to be a decade ahead of anyone else?. I already have designs for a bathroom sized amiga based multipetaflop supercomputer using off the shelf parts.

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@RodTerl

Probably. It isn't a new concept.

Software is very difficult to predict, but hardware is pretty granular.

Ten years is a usual development cycle with technology products. As systems take time to develop, somebody has to initiate the seed from which this grows.

This is not "a decade ahead of anyone else", this is transparallel processing, virtualisation and disk pooling. These concepts are old, but whilst these ideas are not new, it is the implementation of the concept that makes or breaks the technology, and right now, the hardware is at the level that these systems can be developed for, and the desktop market has stagnated due to its unnecessary form factor.

When I was told about the Xorro port with it's direct to system buses, it dawned on me that with the right software, the hardware kinda already exists ;)

I don't just blue sky it, all my concepts have to be rooted in industrial design with a route to market, otherwise it would be a futile exercise!

The reality is that machines have to be conceived before they can be developed ;)

I've supported the Amiga in many different ways over the years, but all I can afford to give away these days is my advice.