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      /  OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
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RobertJDohnert 
OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 19:37:45
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2013
Posts: 193
From: Raleigh NC

Hello Amiga community,

My name is Roberto J Dohnert. I am the founder and co-owner of PC OpenSystems LLC out of Raleigh NC, I am also the lead for the OS4 OpenLinux project. I constantly get pointed to discussions on your forums regarding OS4 and I thought I would take a minute to answer some of the most frequent posts and some of the e-mails I often receive regarding OS4 OpenLinux relationship to the Amiga and Hyperion.

First though, some admissions. I am a huge Amiga fan. The Amiga has been one of those machines that has fascinated me since I was a kid and my elementary school library had one and I would go in there and play for hours on end with the computer. I never got a chance to own one though, by the time I got a chance to buy one Commodore went out of business. Growing up my father was a truck driver and my mother a school teacher so we never had the money to buy an Amiga. Second, yes the Amiga did play a huge role on the development of OS4 OpenLinux.

Now, OS4 OpenLinux is not an attempt to clone the AmigaOS on a x86 or x64 version of Linux. Thats impossible to do. The AmigaOS has many features and refinements that are unique to the platform. When I said the Amiga played a huge role on the development of OS4 what do I mean? When we decided to do OS4 I wanted it to be as user friendly as possible and we wanted to do it on the merits of whats available in the Linux community. So while the AmigaOS did serve as an inspiration to us, as did NeXTStep and the BeOS, we have never attempted to clone or try to ride on the coat tails of anyones work to try to get our name out there. We have done that on our own and our own merits. Anyone who has attempted to associate OS4 OpenLinux with anyone elses work whether it be the AmigaOS or the BeOS made that assumption themselves and we try to correct it.

Naming. OS4 has been a Linux distribution since 2006, internally it was called OS4u, when we developed it in house for a company. We renamed it PC/OS when we went public and then when we did our reorganization we called it OS4 Workspace. But, some people e-mailed us and were upset because they assumed OS4 Workspace was the AmigaOS on x86 even though never marketed as such. So we changed it to OS4 OpenDesktop and still confusion was rampant and we even had a gentleman in Germany who wanted to purchase 5 copies of OS4 Enterprise because he assumed OS4 was AmigaOS on x86 and wanted to know if the PowerPC binaries could run on the x86 version. Now, if I wanted to make a quick buck I could have just included an emulator and said “sure does.” But, we didnt. We decided to get rid of the assumed association with Amiga and to quiet the concerns of the Linux community as well who were saying that we were trying to market OS4 as NOT being derived from Linux and we changed the name to OS4 OpenLinux and OS4 Enterprise Linux.

Our involvement with Hyperion. There is no involvement with Hyperion. When someone from the Amiga community came to me personally and said they were going to file a complaint with Hyperion regarding copyright infringement of the name 'OS4' I went to Hyperion and I asked them if they considered it copyright infringement. Hyperion said no and I considered the subject squashed.

Barry Altman. Barry was a personal friend of mine. When I lived and worked in Florida, I met Barry with some mutual friends and Barry understood the industry. I had no involvement in the formation of CommodoreUSA and didnt know about it until months later when Barry contacted me and asked me if I wanted to get OS4 running on his computers. I said sure, he promised me 2 machines which I never received. He told me he couldnt make OS4 the default OS because of some agreement with Hyperion. No other details were given. The last conversation I had with Barry was that he wanted my opinion on Commodore OS Vision, I played with Commodore OS Vision and I told him I thought the experience was horrible. I didnt like it and that it was a very large step in the wrong direction. He didnt like my analysis and we agreed to disagree and I told him I would see him the next time I came to Florida, alas I got busy and I never got the chance. When Barry died, I said we are going to dedicate OS4 OpenLinux 13.5 to him. I got contacted by another member of the Amiga community who told me that wasnt such a great idea and we went in depth about what had happened. I was never involved nor did he ever speak of his confrontations with the Amiga community. I googled it and came across some interaction that I would say from a business standpoint was a poor use of judgment. I concentrate on my customers and users and making them happy. Personally, I liked the man. The dedication will still happen. It is a quiet tribute to a good friend. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you guys have any further questions feel free to contact me personally at rjdohnert@gmail_dot_com. If you have any feedback regarding OS4 OpenLinux you can submit those via the OS4 OpenLinux website, OS4 OpenLinux Project.

Thank you very much for reading and I wish you all well.

Roberto J. Dohnert
Lead Consultant/System Designer
PC OpenSystems LLC
PO Box 698
Franklinton NC, 27525
919-728-0386

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pavlor 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 19:50:29
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@RobertJDohnert

Thanks for info! Hope fellow Amiga users were not too harsh on you.


and of course...

Welcome!

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 20:01:28
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10681
From: Norway

@RobertJDohnert

I think most of the Amiga community does know the difference between AmigaOS4.1 and OS4, MacOS7 and OS7 the only ones don't get it dont wan to get, don't understand what two letters stand for O and S, Operating System.

There are other OS's we have OS360 from IBM and OS\2 from IBM and to even think that we the Amiga community can own the two letters is insane, because OS mens every operating system, and so its funny your using it by it own, as it has a general meaning at least we computer geeks know what letters stands for.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Jun-2013 at 08:01 PM.

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TheAMIgaOne 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 20:06:18
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Jan-2004
Posts: 774
From: United Kingdom

@RobertJDohnert

Hi, and welcome, I noticed your blog the other day hence the forum thread which to my knowledge no-one had mentioned on Aw.net before. At first glimpse I thought 'Oh no' not another attempt to confuse the Amiga users new/old, then I saw the dedication to Barry Altman, the small conspiracy theory blinked up, what if this was another branch of Barry's 'vision'. Luckily after more digging and others replying to the forum it seem it was simply another OS. But yes, something did make me think you was a previous amiga user :D

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RobertJDohnert 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 20:38:43
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2013
Posts: 193
From: Raleigh NC

@TheAMIgaOne

Personally, I dont even think Barry himself understood what his own vision was. When we had our exchange about Commodore OS Vision, I told him "Barry this is going to be seen as a joke and its a horrible one at that. You are going to tarnish the image of Commodore and Amiga here in the US" He asked for suggestions. My suggestion was to get AmigaOS 4 compatible PowerPC boards and get a license from Hyperion to preinstall AmigaOS 4 and roll out a true nostalgia piece and show a mix of the old with the new generation. I thought that would be a great way to reintroduce the Amiga to the US market. I even offered that we could go to Hyperion together and I offered to help port drivers from BSD for Wifi, printers and such to AmigaOS 4. He didnt like my price tag, which i offered a cut throat discount. Barry was always a now, now, now type of guy and I think my ideas were too time consuming for him. After he died I went to the family and offered to take it over and acquire the company from the estate and implement my ideas. I have been pretty much ignored about it, I think the family just wants to let it go and be done with the industry.

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vox 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 21:05:59
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@RobertJDohnert

Thanks for the clarification. Now, where are first 3 versions

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amigadave 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 21:22:44
#7 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1525
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@RobertJDohnert

Nice to hear that you approached the family concerning taking over the Commodore USA company from them, with the intent of going to Hyperion and trying to get a license to release new PPC systems with AmigaOS4.x installed on them.

That would be a great second chapter in the life of Commodore USA, though I am not sure it would be a profitable endeavor for you to make any money from, unless you can produce new PPC systems for much less than the currently available AmigaOS4.x compatible systems.

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CritAnime 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 21:35:34
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 734
From: UK

@RobertJDohnert

Quote:

RobertJDohnert wrote:
@TheAMIgaOne

Personally, I dont even think Barry himself understood what his own vision was. When we had our exchange about Commodore OS Vision, I told him "Barry this is going to be seen as a joke and its a horrible one at that. You are going to tarnish the image of Commodore and Amiga here in the US" He asked for suggestions. My suggestion was to get AmigaOS 4 compatible PowerPC boards and get a license from Hyperion to preinstall AmigaOS 4 and roll out a true nostalgia piece and show a mix of the old with the new generation. I thought that would be a great way to reintroduce the Amiga to the US market. I even offered that we could go to Hyperion together and I offered to help port drivers from BSD for Wifi, printers and such to AmigaOS 4. He didnt like my price tag, which i offered a cut throat discount. Barry was always a now, now, now type of guy and I think my ideas were too time consuming for him. After he died I went to the family and offered to take it over and acquire the company from the estate and implement my ideas. I have been pretty much ignored about it, I think the family just wants to let it go and be done with the industry.


I am glad you are not the only one that voice thier concerns over the OS with him. When I trialed it, back when it was initially released, I sent a couple of emails to him explaining what was wrong and potential fixes. The replies I got back were not exactly pleasent even though I was offering to help. Which was the final tipping point for me and solidifed my views over CUSA.

My friend also voiced similar concerns over the OS and it's direction on their forums, both old and new, and he was met with equal amounts of resistence to any ideas and improvements. Even when he was essentially acting as one of the few 'tech support' (because CUSA was doing very little)for the OS, something he willing helped with because he genuinley felt bad about how things were going, Barry sent several PM's telling him that his views were not for the site.

It sounds like you had some prety solid ideas about the direction he should have been taking. It is a shame he didn't listen.

Can I say that if you're still willing to help with drivers and such maybe you should still contact Hyperion and see if there is anything that you can help with.

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BCP 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 19-Jun-2013 23:58:51
#9 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2003
Posts: 174
From: Indianapolis, IN USA

@RobertJDohnert

Do you have a ppc distribution of your OS4, or any plans for one? If so, I imagine that A-Eon would be interested in your OS4 being available for their AmigaOne X1000.

- BCP

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number6 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 20-Jun-2013 0:12:11
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9798
From: In the village

@RobertJDohnert

Quote:
Quote:
He told me he couldnt make OS4 the default OS because of some agreement with Hyperion.


There is no such agreement with Hyperion and CommodoreUSA, nor was there ever such an agreement. Barry himself, in his own words, admitted he had never even spoken with Hyperion.

He was referring to the settlement agreement between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion (then VOF).

Quote:
The last conversation I had with Barry was that he wanted my opinion on Commodore OS Vision


Then that was prior to his reacting by changing tact to Commodore Fuzion, which had internal implications given the effort already expended obviously. So it's possible your talks had an impact you did not perceive at the time.

Quote:
Personally, I dont even think Barry himself understood what his own vision was.


Frankly he only shared what was really going on within an extremely small circle. I'm sure he was honest with you about the part that you would have been concerned with though.

Quote:
My suggestion was to get AmigaOS 4 compatible PowerPC boards and get a license from Hyperion to preinstall AmigaOS 4 and roll out a true nostalgia piece and show a mix of the old with the new generation.


That proposal never got out the door, except in the form of an Amigaworld posting involving a "challenge" to the community, which was seeking for a new approach.

Quote:
Barry was always a now, now, now type of guy and I think my ideas were too time consuming for him.


True and that's why he had focussed on licensing which was less time consuming than long drawn out conversations involving new approaches which would have taken forever to implement.

Quote:
I think the family just wants to let it go and be done with the industry.


That remains to be seen.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 20-Jun-2013 at 12:30 AM.
Last edited by number6 on 20-Jun-2013 at 12:20 AM.
Last edited by number6 on 20-Jun-2013 at 12:14 AM.

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wawa 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 20-Jun-2013 0:46:17
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@RobertJDohnert
there is so many "visions" what "amiga" should be as members in the community. you shouldnt pay attention to the issue.

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CritAnime 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 20-Jun-2013 1:16:42
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 734
From: UK

@wawa

To be fair he did adress this once before.

http://www.os4online.com/2012/07/amiga-os-41-and-os4.html

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scabit 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 20-Jun-2013 2:41:49
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2005
Posts: 1663
From: Satellite Beach, FL USA

@RobertJDohnert

Thanks for the clarifications. Perhaps, although you missed your chance as a youngster to enjoy owning an Amiga, you can now afford an AmigaOne X1000 or other AmigaOne and enjoy the Amiga today? It still lives on, in spite of the many attempts to kill it off. Simply an amazing OS.

Scott

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RobertJDohnert 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 20-Jun-2013 7:40:37
#14 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2013
Posts: 193
From: Raleigh NC

@BCP

Actually we dont have a working PPC release yet. We just got a replacement G4 where we will be building a PPC release and that will be coming around the fall. If we can find some volunteers to help with development that will obviously help speed things up.

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Spirantho 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 20-Jun-2013 8:51:57
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2004
Posts: 1044
From: Aberystwyth, Wales

@RobertJDohnert

Hi Robert, thanks for a good read. It's interesting to see your viewpoint. I think you're right to dedicate OpenLinux to Barry - we may not have liked his business practices (which many felt were decidedly ill-advised) but a personal friendship is more important that that.

I would recommend getting in touch with Trevor Dickinson about OS4 - he's been championing AmigaOS on his X1000 but also Linux as an alternative OS; maybe you could become the "official" Linux alternative for AmigaOS 4 machines? Of course that wouldn't mean anything except a name, but it may provide a nice Linux installation which is Amiga-friendly and closer to what we expect than Debian or anything. The only problem would be potential confusion with people when they get two DVDs saying "OS4" with their shiny new Amiga. :)

Good luck with your Linux distribution, and thanks again for coming along and clarifying things!

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RobertJDohnert 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 20-Jun-2013 9:12:47
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2013
Posts: 193
From: Raleigh NC

@number6

Well the offer still stands to the family should they decide to keep going with Commodore USA.

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wawa 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 20-Jun-2013 9:39:28
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@scabit

Quote:
many attempts to kill it off.


attempts to kill it off... are you sure? the only "attempts to kill it off" i see were so to say made in the house when weird people, convinced being in control and " true amigans" tried to make strange things with what was left of genuine commodore amiga heritage. which usually backfired if not in their very face then at least it damaged the community even further, so probably it should be rather referred to as "maniacal suicide attempts" i guess.. at least i fail to see any purposeful and ill meant involvement from the outside.

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andres 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 20-Jun-2013 13:31:15
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 323
From: Firenze (Italy)

Anyway I was wondering wich is the current situation about C= marks.
I remember there was a lawsuit between Asiarim and others...

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damocles 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 20-Jun-2013 13:35:47
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:
Barry himself, in his own words, admitted he had never even spoken with Hyperion.


According to Barry and Leo, they were in contact with Ben but Ben stopped replying to their emails.

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number6 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 20-Jun-2013 13:36:32
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9798
From: In the village

@andres

Quote:
Anyway I was wondering wich is the current situation about C= marks.I remember there was a lawsuit between Asiarim and others


@Scabit asked that question just the other day.

As I told him, I try to keep the thread updated when news is made public.

Nedfield

#6

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