Quote:

joeled wrote: I can never understand how people can manage to get Win7 or Win8 to crawl?

People also used to get WinXp to crawl. How do they manege it?

@Daedalus

You also have to remember that when it comes time to sell a used mac it will sell for many times what you would get for anything else. that should always be factored in to the cost, I feel.

I had a 2006 macbook core duo (one of the first, bought it the first week) that developed a fault that required a new motherboard but even in a none working state I still got £150 for it in 2011. A Dell that age and not working would have been almost worthless and probably the same price in working condition.

I can't say macs are reliable though, I had to return my macbook under warranty twice but both times for issues with the plastic casing, then the motherboard died after 4 years but it was one of the first intel macs and a complete new design so with the current mature state of things you will probably fair better.

Apple are usually very good about later problems that may appear too, I had an iBook G3 with a faulty motherboard that was known about and repaired by Apple even though it was 5 years old and last year they replaced an old ipod nano with a brand new more recent model because of a known battery fault.

If I had the money to buy a good laptop these days, it would probably be a macbook of some kind. I think it is worth while to take out apple care though, just in case.

For windows, Lenovo seem to be pretty good as long as you don't go for the cheaper end as they have cheap plastic cases that seem crack and break up at the hinges after about a year.

_________________

"People also used to get Win** to crawl. How do they manege it?"

One only needs ton install it from a media and use it for a while.


But really. Once used AOS on 7mhz+ HW, everything else crawls.


``Perfection. Excellence. What a passionate lover. But once having tasted the lips of excellence, once having given oneself to its perfection, how dreary and burdensome and filled with anomie are the remainder of one's waking hours trapped in the shackled lock-step of the merely ordinary, the barely acceptable, the just okay and not one stroke better.''
-- Harlan Ellison

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@TheMaskedMuchacho

Quote:

TheMaskedMuchacho wrote: @Daedalus I can't say macs are reliable though, I had to return my macbook under warranty twice but both times for issues with the plastic casing, then the motherboard died after 4 years but it was one of the first intel macs and a complete new design so with the current mature state of things you will probably fair better.

Oh yeah, those first Intel ones were hideous. And they didn't really have an excuse for the poor housing since the iBook before it was super sturdy (mine's 11 years old and going strong). They've stopped making all plastic-bodied Macs now thankfully though so it's not so much of an issue. I've also heard of them having motherboard failures, similar to the early Macbook Airs but like you say, probably early model issues which have been long ironed out these days.

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RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: One only needs ton install it from a media and use it for a while.

I wonder why I don't have that problem. After a fresh WinXp install I see a small drop in performance, and that's it. It never gets slower after that, and it certainly never crawls. Not on my old Pentium 3, and not on my current peecee (yup, running WinXp on two year old hardware). Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I manage what gets run at boot time with CodeStuff Starter.

@Deniil715

As a person who owns many types of portable computing platforms I will say this:

Go for a Mac.

My neighbour recently wanted to upgrade from her ageing and slow 5 year old Toshiba laptop. I gave her a nice ASUS recommendation and then she asked "What about a Mac?" - She also has an iPhone.

I gave her all the facts, things others have mentioned in this thread i.e. build quality, resale value, iPhone integration, Apple ethos, etc. She went to a local store and played around with a MacBook Pro Retina and she decided that is what she wanted. She paid A$500 more than the ASUS but she is loving every minute of it. She never used MacOS before.

True 8-hour battery life. Amazing display. No malware. Better integration with her iPhone through iCloud. And it's only going to get better with iOS8 + Yosemite

The latest 13' Air has 12-hour battery. That's hard to beat.

I have a touchscreen Win 8.1 Samsung, and older HP EliteBook which I upgraded to SSD running Ubuntu, a PowerBook G4 with Morphos, a 2010 MacBook Air I don't use much these days as I just upgraded to a MacBook Pro 13" Retina.

You get what you pay for. There are many low cost Windows 8.x laptops/notebooks but it usually means Low Resolution Screen, Plastic Enclosure, Low Capacity Battery, Slow HDD, and tend to have less refinement. Definitely not built to last. Not sure how much any notebook today will be relevant in 10 years from now but you have a better chance with a MacBook.

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All the way, with 68k

@laptop

I hope I manage to "feed my wife" a MosBook one day. (but there's great resistance to everything "different" ... nowdays less, though, as some of computing at her work is done on Unix systems and she has Linux at home)
I would rather be a Amigalike system admin for her than Win/linux/whtever.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

So it seems the thread is weighing over towards Mac again. I suggested yesterday that this thread pointed towards windows and she looked a bit disappointed (and so was I). I really hate that f#¢ing crap OS.

I believe those who don't find windows slow have very high speced machines, the faststs disks possible, and perform maintenance constantly keeping the malware down, disabling automatic scans, make sure nothing extra gets installed (like for example the Ask bar with Java, or the Bing bar with.. whatever?). If someone is going to keep this machine fast it will be me, and I hate windows.

So Mac it is, cool
So Air or Pro? The baseline CPU is not very different in passmark. The biggest diff is the screen really, and the baseline RAM which is 8GB in the 2014 Pro model. Guess we'll have to go somewhere and feel them

Last edited by Deniil715 on 22-Aug-2014 at 07:58 AM.

_________________
- Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes)
> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

I'm very happy with my MacBook Pro which I bought in January. It boots in 5 seconds, is very quick and easy to use. The Retina display is great and you will never like to use sth different. The pricing issue is unreal in my opinion. It includes all you need, in a very good elaborated aluminum body - good design, good manufacturing. If I would need to purchase now another computer I would go for a Mac again. Most important argument for me is the Retina display. You can now wait for the rumored 12" Macbook Air with Retina display or just buy a Pro right now. Look for the best offer, there are often price cuts during holiday time.

@Naz

" It boots in 5 seconds,"

Really?
Or is it just waking from sleep/hibernation?

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: * it cant always recover from hibernation (just blank screen)

I had something like it once, I think removing the Fingerprint reader software fixed it. That is if you're not using it anyways.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@Deniil715

Quote:

So Air or Pro? The baseline CPU is not very different in passmark.

I was facing the same question a year ago, when my laptop allowance from work was due, and thus it was time to upgrade. At the time, I had both a 13" Air (which I got cheap due to some mostly-inconsequential liquid damage), and a maxed-out pre-retina 15" Pro (with 2TB disk, plus an SSD).


The Air is beautifully light and portable, and it's an amazing tool if you (or your gf) are out a lot doing presentations, or anything else where carrying a computer that feels no more substantial (and heavy) than a pad of paper is important.

That said, there is a cost to that emphasis on portability; In actual use, it feels like merely a competent, capable computer, rather than a great one. The movement of the key caps feels a bit less comfortable to me than on the Pro, the display of course is in a different class, and also performance, while certainly adequate, is noticeably less than on the Pro (although this may be less so for the 13" Pro).

In the end, I decided to upgrade to a retina 15" Pro, because (a) I wanted 16GB of RAM, and (b) I had found that when I took a laptop on my travels, it tended to be the Pro, not the Air, and (c) the Pro can drive more monitors, which I quite enjoy when sitting down with it at my desk.


You mentioned using the laptop as the primary storage for photos etc. That is a bit of an issue with all the SSD-only models, because SSD is still a bit expensive to upgrade to the necessary size. If it is important to you, you might want to consider the non-retina Pro, which has an easily upgradable SATA disk. If you don't care about optical disks (why would you, in 2014?), you can also replace the DVD drive with a caddy holding a SATA SSD, giving the best of both worlds. But of course, it's limited to 8GB max, and lacks the lovely display.


But overall, whatever model you choose --- in my experience, getting a MacBook is an excellent choice. The things are damn near indestructible (my Pros have hit airport floors several times due to me forgetting to zip up the backpack's laptop pocket after security, ejecting them at pace when re-shouldering the pack. Not a single issue as a result), reliable, a pleasure to use, and all-round well-balanced machines. And while there is (some) extra cost, the small number of models and the fact that hardware and OS come from the same source means that buying Mac-compatible peripherals tends to actually result in the peripherals simply working.

@KimmoK

Just did a test and the boot time is 10 seconds. If it is in sleep/hibernation than a hit on the space bar is enough and you are back.

naz

@Thorham

Quote:

People also used to get WinXp to crawl. How do they manage it?

By using it normally. Without very active management WindowsXP crawls on lower end a hardware. Particularly if you lack ram. It does loads of shit in the background for ages on startup that the average user wont know how to switch off.

It took me ages of fiddling arround to get my XP box used for WinUAE 68k compiling to run smoothly. I had to switch off the antivirus (and so not go on the web from that machine) and disable some other help file database scanning thing, and double the RAM I'd had at the time to 2Gb. I also had to switch off all the fancy graphics.

By comparison, the same machine on linux is quite nippy.

I'm along long was from being a windows expert, so maybe I could have sorted that quicker, but most windows users are not experts, (Windows goes out of it's way to prevent that, in the name of user friendly) so they simply suffer.

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@Deniil715

Go for a Mac !

They are reliable fast and easy to use, almost totally idiot proof, worth every penny
compared to a Winblows pile.

Yes; you could buy any winblows laptop or box, but it will spend most of it's time
broken, slow, with crap user interface and bad software. Riddled with viruses and
spyware, not to mention the UI slows or stops every time there is a disc access;
(which is most of the time).
Also when you switch your Winblows box on; you cant use it for 5-15 minutes, then
have to wait 2-5 mins to switch it off.


Enjoy.. Wol.

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It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.~Albert Einstein

Having used just about every version of Windows, I love my I7 ASUS ROG laptop running Windows 8.1. It is lightning fast and runs older programs better than 7 or XP managed.

Mind you, the first thing I did was install Classic Shell to get my toolbar back, disable the boot into "Metro" (or whatever they want to call it), reassign the file types to use the classic versions on my favourite tools instead of the metro ones (yep, all of the old versions of Paint, Media Player, etc are still available if you want to switch back to them).

I swapped the original HD for a 1TB SDD and it boots in seconds.

If 3D gaming isn't an issue then I suggest an i5 or i3 with a good amount of RAM and Windows 8.1 configured to look like Windows 7.

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AmigaOne X1000, A4000(T), A3000, A2000, A1200(T), A1200, A500, CD32, Minimig+ARM, FPGA Arcade, Chameleon64, C-One, C128, C128D, C64C, C64, VIC-20, CBM 8032, CBM4032, Efika, Ultimate64

@Wol

Rethink 'Reliable' here... Although Macs seem to look stunning, mechanically they are not without faults. Try Googling for: macbook oven trick

Not that hardware running Windows is without issues...

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Back home...

@Deniil715

Get one suitable for running WinUAE-PPC. (I'm nto sure if any new PC laptop would not be) :)

As you want to maximize the useful life of this purchase, get something as future-resistant as possible. Lots of RAM, big CPU, big HD. I myself would go Windows 7 over Windows 8 if still available. (maybe still is in business class rigs)

If you cheap out on things, then it will be less joyful to use 7 years from now when it can't keep up anymore. If you have to choose because of price, then go for CPU first, as memory and HD are easier to upgrade later. A while ago I bought a motherboard, with the idea of adding to it over time until there was enough to boot and use. (expensive MXM board with A70m chipset - weird situation) By the time I was looking to buy the CPU, the compatible CPUs, particularly the fastest one, were hard to find. I only found it still for sale at Avnet distributor. (At least memory and rest are much more common parts still today)

I'd also go with one of the bigger brands, as it will likely be easier to get replacement batteries in time compared to no-names. I once bought a "whitebook" laptop, and shortly after there were no replacement batteries available.

Note that I understand there is something funky going on wiht Haswell CPUs these days. Bugs in USB and in TSX instructions.
http://www.cnet.com/news/intel-confirms-usb-bug-in-haswell-chipset/
http://techreport.com/news/26911/errata-prompts-intel-to-disable-tsx-in-haswell-early-broadwell-cpus
So balance these into purchase plans. Sounds like a fix may be in the pipe for the USB thing already, and I'm sure they are all over getting the next Broadwell tapeout running TSX properly.

This is basically the same philosophy I'd use if I were to design a PPC Amiga laptop. Go as advanced as possible - fastest PPC CPU, best memory capability, SDXC slot, I like Expressard and MXM slots, etc. so that it won't be antiquated before arrival like the hypothetical OS4 netbook was. Do as much as possible to keep it as useful as possible for as long as possible.

That said, I spent just over US$2000 on my PC laptop a few years ago, with this ideal in mind. I'm an electical engineer, also in grad school, and wanted something capable that would last. (Ivy Bridge Quad-core, 8 total threads, and I've since doubled the "maxed out" memory to 16GB and updated hard drive 2 or 3 times, now at 2TB) The foundation should keep me going for quite some time, and I'm curious if it's actually capable of another memory doubling, as the chipset I believe can, and perhaps my max memory config was only that because of larger stick availability or pricing at the time, and bigger has become available and cheaper since then.

And one thing I did, as a hint... My laptop came from Dell, it's a business class Latitude. I asked for the cheapest hard drive for this thing from Dell. Buying larger hard drive outright from Newegg or Amazon was cheaper than Dell's price to upgrade, and this way I also get to keep the smaller Dell hard drive and put it into a cheap external USB case for backups. Good deal... I'd I'd paid more for Dell to build it up with the larger HD, then I'd only have one drive for htat higher price. Also, as I remember, the largest HD I could choose from Dell was not as large as the 1TB one I got cheaper elsewhere... So think outside the box and look around for alternative upgrade choices.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@Deniil715

A MacBook Pro. Just decide 13 or 15 inch screen. Retina or no Retina (I recommend Retina). Order it done your way, ram, SSD HD etc. And enjoy. You get what you pay for. Run Parallels software. Put her XP setup there and run both side by side simultaniously until you (GF) get settled with the Mac. Nuf Said . . . Have fun and less stress computing.

Dave

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Avatar babe - Monica Bellucci.

@Wol

Quote:

........ ... Also when you switch your Winblows box on; you cant use it for 5-15 minutes, then have to wait 2-5 mins to switch it off.

Exactly my experience as well. Useless.

@broadblues

+1

@wolfe

Quote:

A MacBook Pro. Just decide 13 or 15 inch screen. Retina or no Retina (I recommend Retina). Order it done your way, ram, SSD HD etc. And enjoy. You get what you pay for. Run Parallels software. Put her XP setup there and run both side by side simultaniously until you (GF) get settled with the Mac. Nuf Said . . . Have fun and less stress computing.

That was my plan
It would be the 13" Retina. She don't want a bloat machine she can't carry in he shoulder bag.

@Darrin

ASUS Zenbook looks like an alternative for this with touch scren and stuff. Would work almost like my Surface 2. Anyway, there's so my work to do to set it up properly for her to get anything done.

@billt

This won't be my machine, so no WinUAE. Besides, I have an X1000 so why the heck would I want to run UAE on a disgusting Peesea???!

Other than that; if I would go for a PC I would try to make it is as future proof as possible by getting a fast and expandable machine. It would probably cost the same as a Macbook.

_________________
- Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes)
> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.