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   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 11:23:09
#601 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4927
From: Unknown

@olegil

they simply underestimated the real need, they thought they could build it themselves to make it cheap but that was impossible (several hundred for A600 alone). It is always difficult to raise prices (vampire started with 90 Euros, then 150 now 250). If you add taxes, additional costs you are in the range of 350-400 EUR. Another problem for many is that it is produced in relative high numbers and now costing 250 EUR but no official papers and guarantee. Also sending it from Canada makes it more expensive for EU customers (who are certainly the vast majority) because of taxes so I think there would be more acceptance if it would be sold as a professional product with all papers and guarantee from inside EU.

Regarding kipper, I think the biggest problem was not public discussions but people cancelling orders and becoming very personal and aggressive. People should think carefully before they write and not just because of current anger. I can understand people cancelling orders because of the price rise but they should not attack the people behind who tried to do it on a hobby level and failed.

So in short... make it professional and no longer hobby project then less people will order but there will be left enough orders for sure

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tangoone 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 12:43:42
#602 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Jul-2014
Posts: 146
From: Norway

@OlafS25

So what will now happen to the project. ?

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 13:01:08
#603 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4927
From: Unknown

@tangoone

I do not know what they are planning to do... they should "professionalize" the production

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bitman 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 13:38:18
#604 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2008
Posts: 690
From: Fredericia, Denmark

@OlafS25

Isn't the below update still valid regarding production?

http://kipper2k.com/updates.html

_________________
Maintainer of www.bigbookofamigahardware.com

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 13:49:11
#605 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4927
From: Unknown

@bitman

I do not know but there is assembled so perhaps you only need someone to check the ready boards then

It will not be kipper it seems

Production should be in EU and it should be certified to avoid future problems and save taxes

Last edited by OlafS25 on 21-Sep-2016 at 01:50 PM.

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Signman 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 13:53:57
#606 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Aug-2016
Posts: 46
From: Unknown

@bitman

If they don't change it again I would accept that:

(We will send a request for payment to 100 customers at a time and will allow 7 days for payment, once we have 100 customers then the batch will be ordered, this will take approx 3 - 4 weeks and then final programming/mailing will take another week. Customers can help this process by replying to their emails promptly so we know whether to move down the list or wait a few more days.)...Kippers page

I want them to charge enough to make it viable and worth their while, beyond that price I'll stick with emulation.

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Signman 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 13:55:14
#607 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Aug-2016
Posts: 46
From: Unknown

@bitman

If they don't change it again I would accept that:

(We will send a request for payment to 100 customers at a time and will allow 7 days for payment, once we have 100 customers then the batch will be ordered, this will take approx 3 - 4 weeks and then final programming/mailing will take another week. Customers can help this process by replying to their emails promptly so we know whether to move down the list or wait a few more days.)...Kippers page

I want them to charge enough to make it viable and worth their while, beyond that price I'll stick with emulation.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 13:58:02
#608 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4927
From: Unknown

@Signman

I am thinking to play around with Raspberry 3 and amiga emulation. It could be a cheap amiga hardware, we will see. Vampire is becoming expensive now compared to existing standard hardware, compared to the old hardware like accellerators it is still cheap of course. Finally everyone has to decide himself if he "needs" one (or two) or if f.e. emulation is enough

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 14:25:11
#609 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8052
From: Unknown

@Yasu

Quote:
Congratulations you nagging ass hats, you have ruined yet another awesome project!


Disgusting.


250 EUR is still really good price for great features Vampire/Apollo offers. I ever thought manufacturing/distribution will be greatest weakness of this project, if a little bit higher price solves this problem, then it is step in the right direction.

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Signman 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 15:00:36
#610 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Aug-2016
Posts: 46
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

I have to say my Raspberry Pi configuration with Amibian is pretty much all I could want especially given the price.
I have been out of the Amiga scene for a long time but got back in with Amiga Forever and when that wasn't enough hooked up a 500 to a lcd with a gotek floppy emulator. Finally (maybe) the Raspberry pi.

The Amibian setup boots super quick, emulating Classic Workbench with very fast speed, Picasso graphics, Whdload. Some favorite graphic and productivity apps and about 100 games and access to internet for downloads, and I am pleased.

It just the tech and hobbyist vein in me that pushes me to play with old hardware, so depending on price
and availability I may go further.

Oh, I see someone locally is selling a few Amigas with an accelerated 1200, don't tempt me.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 15:01:29
#611 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5423
From: Unknown

@pavlor

cmon. i dont think the project is ruined. kipper will calm down and consider his investment against what he gains from it and simply decide how to proceed. he doesnt even sound as if he wants to quit immediately, he actually explains what his difficulties are. and should he want to resign, people wanting to assemble these boards are waiting in a queue.

one way or the other there is always quarrel around these project and people who think they deserve to be presented everything on silver plate just for a single smile. even more so in this, to be honest, not very sane community.

besides the project have caught and is still receiving flak from different other directions and on its other aspects. it didnt made them resign or go missing/undercover. im rather feeling a confidence that the current developments in consequense will lead to improvements and maybe even contribute to boost the whole scene. who would even have thought there is 1000 active owners/users of a600? ;)

Last edited by wawa on 21-Sep-2016 at 03:02 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Sep-2016 16:00:33
#612 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4927
From: Unknown

@wawa

certainly not ruined. As far as I know kipper was "only" for getting the orders and manufacture the boards. Design was and is done by Majsta and the core done by gunnar and some other developers. If I understand it right they are planning to let the boards assembled by a company so you only need someone to test the boards. That is still work but not as much as now (by far).

Some customers will be annoyed because price changes after ordering and waiting for some time, for others it will be simply too expensive but I think it is still much hardware for the price, expecially compared to the prices for used hardware on ebay.

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QuikSanz 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Sep-2016 2:14:47
#613 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 991
From: Surf City - Huntington Beach, Ca.


So what really is the status of this project? Is it still developing. Will it get USB and Net? or is this it?

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agami 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Sep-2016 9:27:17
#614 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 475
From: Melbourne, Australia

The Vampire 600 V2 has always been a $300 product. In many ways the Apollo Team made a mistake by charging so low to start with. These guys are techies. They're not business people and they have resisted those who would come in and turn it into a fully fledged enterprise.

I am very pleased with what they are doing; The pricing is more realistic now and can actually support the development of future products, among them the board for the A1200. I had no issues bumping my order up to the Black Edition, and I will be amongst the first to buy the A1200 board and whatever else they produce.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Sep-2016 10:00:40
#615 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4927
From: Unknown

@QuikSanz

wrong place and wrong persons to ask that

if you want to get official informations go in the official irc

they were very open always and I do not think that changed

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ilbarbax 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Sep-2016 12:25:47
#616 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2010
Posts: 139
From: Italy

Too many people is forgetting that this is a hobby project and they have done an huge and great job. I forgot the classic machines for many years, thanks to them I'm now thinking to resurrect my A1200 despite the price could rise.

Thanks again

Last edited by ilbarbax on 22-Sep-2016 at 12:26 PM.

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olegil 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Sep-2016 13:34:39
#617 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5886
From: Work

@OlafS25

First of all they should really get a better deal than digikey for the FPGAs. That 162 USD Cyclone III can probably be had for less than 50 USD if bought through proper channels, at sensible volumes.

I like Digikey/Farnell/Mouser a LOT, but for Altera and Xilinx it simply doesn't work at all to go that route.

For most other components, those online sales are awesome because they'll buy the minimum order quantities and sell you singles. But with Altera and Xilinx, a negotiated price with your official distributor is a must.

Edit: I now see it wasn't kipper2k who mentioned the digikey price, but at least I've mentioned it, in case anyone else wants to design something with an FPGA. DO NOT BUY FPGAs THROUGH DIGIKEY

Last edited by olegil on 22-Sep-2016 at 01:36 PM.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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IanP 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 23-Sep-2016 1:30:36
#618 ]
Member
Joined: 27-Mar-2008
Posts: 40
From: Unknown

@olegil I posted the digikey price because they are a well known parts supplier with public pricing whilst many suppliers will simply say contact them for a quote. Other less well known parts suppliers may offer them at lower prices but you run the risk of being sold fakes or recycled parts which may be dead. So it's very easy to buy parts from somewhere like digikey (apart from the $120 fixed delivery charge they have for delivering any part to Majsta in Bosnia) but hard work to find supplies from other sources when the price goes up. It illustrates the difficulty in pricing a hardware product when you are a small player.

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CosmosUnivers 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 23-Sep-2016 7:09:33
#619 ]
Member
Joined: 20-Sep-2007
Posts: 57
From: Unknown

@IanP

Cyclone 3 cost 20 on eBay !

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Zylesea 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 23-Sep-2016 9:30:28
#620 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 1985
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@CosmosUnivers

Which particular Cyclone3? There are many Cyclone3 types available.

Plus, ebay is good for bargains and single shots, but not so much for a sutainable supply.

_________________
My programs: www.via-altera.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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