@Plaz

I personal option is that births will need to swallow a camel, as they renegotiating agreements about trade with the EU. Any way now, they are free to make other tread deal with Norway, Island, and other countries not so stuck in the soup. Anyway, what Norway hopes is that we might able make better trade deals with the EU, now that UK and Norway sits on same side of the table.

Quote:

Depending on how the markets go, I may actually be buying directly from the UK, and not just Amigas. How many other markets outside the EU might do the same? I've always wanted to visit the UK. Maybe that will be a possibility now too.

Personally, I do not think GBP will change that drastically. It was strong before they joined the EU, they might have had bit more industry, before EU.

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What surprises me is that instead of the EU saying..."Ok, UK we hear you're not exactly happy. Let's see if we can make any adjustments and keep deal going."

Giving an inch might result in other countries liking to renegotiate, I'm sure EU will do what it can there country's in place. EU is not real union, its proxy union where etch country have there own needs.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Jun-2016 at 05:13 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Jun-2016 at 05:08 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Jun-2016 at 05:07 PM.

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@Plaz

Quote:

What surprises me is that instead of the EU saying..."Ok, UK we hear you're not exactly happy. Let's see if we can make any adjustments and keep deal going." No, instead we get... fine UK, get out "as soon as possible". This doesn't sound like a group to "work with" or one I'd personally want to be part of either. But I don't know what all came before either.

Adjustments had already been negotiated before the referendum. The EU are understandably not happy that after the effort of re-negotiating various deals with 27 other countries, we've decided to leave anyway.

Imagine if Georgia had spent several months negotiating deals with the rest of the USA, trying to limit the number of people moving there from other states, and then at the end of those negotiations, after the deal had been agreed, said, "You know what Obama? Screw you. We don't want to be part of the USA any more". Well.... it's a bit like that.

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@Plaz

Quote:

I'm just a dumb yank watching from afar so please forgive and correct any mistakes I might make.

Gladly,

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What surprises me is that instead of the EU saying..."Ok, UK we hear you're not exactly happy. Let's see if we can make any adjustments and keep deal going."

You need to know that the current prime minister had negotiated a deal with the EU several months ago that would have extended the United Kingdom´s unique special status within the EU. Said deal included continued rebates on membership fees and other concessions that were specifically offered to ensure that the United Kingdom would remain a valued member of the European Union.

If a major member state gets a better deal offered than any other big member state and still chooses to leave, there is really nothing else to negotiate about except for exit terms...

Quote:

No, instead we get... fine UK, get out "as soon as possible". This doesn't sound like a group to "work with" or one I'd personally want to be part of either. But I don't know what all came before either.

You need to understand that uncertainty is poison for economies. Many businesses will postpone investments in the UK as well as in other countries until the future relationship between the UK and the EU has been defined. Also, exchange rates and stock markets will continue to be more volatile until then (also outside of Europe!). This hurts the UK as well as the other EU member states for as long as the uncertainty continues. Since the United Kingdom is the cause of these developments by choosing to leave, the responsible decision would be to get out quickly to minimize economic harm for everyone involved.

Instead, prime minister Cameron has announced that he plans to stay in power for several more months but will leave it to his successor to actually initiate the exit negotiations with the EU. In other words, he is putting the needs of his own domestic political party, who prefers more time to determine who should become his successor, over the potential economic harm that will likely be caused to other fellow EU member states due to the extended uncertainty...

@Plaz

Well, if Conservatives lose next general elections thanks to UKIP surge, there may be no Brexit at all... How I like first-past-the-post voting system!

Last edited by pavlor on 25-Jun-2016 at 05:59 PM.

@ASiegel

I don't think it's because he wants to put his party first.
I think it's more because he doesn't want to be the one to do it, as he doesn't agree with leaving.
It's a pretty historical moment and maybe he doesn't want that to be his legacy.

Cheers

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@Raffaele

Why all the talk of fighting and running away?
We are not at war with anyone.

The EEC was a trade community, which we voted to join. (When we were eventually allowed to)
The EU has added a political union element to that.
It's not what the public voted for when we joined the EEC.

A new vote has been taken and the public have voted against that.
Of course the are a lot more issues for and against , but that is essentially it.

If you don't like the service or the food in a restaurant, you can complain.
If you still don't like it after repeated visits and complaints, you go elsewhere.
No need for a battle.

Cheers

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@TiredofLife

Quote:

I don't think it's because he wants to put his party first. I think it's more because he doesn't want to be the one to do it, as he doesn't agree with leaving. It's a pretty historical moment and maybe he doesn't want that to be his legacy.

Of course, this is part of it. But if it was the only concern for him, he could resign immediately (or at the very least much, much sooner).

@Chris_Y

Quote:

Imagine if Georgia had spent several months negotiating deals with the rest of the USA, trying to limit the number of people moving there from other states, and then at the end of those negotiations, after the deal had been agreed, said, "You know what Obama? Screw you. We don't want to be part of the USA any more". Well.... it's a bit like that.

That's exactly how it is other than the fact we signed up to a trade agreement not a United States of Europe . Also, every US citizen knows who Obama is and had the option to vote against his party if they didn't like him in the last US election. However, Donald Tusk is a pretty low-profile person in the UK as far as the regular man on the street is concerned and yet he is the President of the European Council; technically the most powerful man in the EU!

The main problem is we the people don't have any opportunity to directly vote for him, in fact the European Council despite being the higher of the two 'houses' in the EU government structure is a 'quango' with members elected by nation state leaders and not us the EU citizens. It is a sham and barely a democracy. The EU has more in common with FIFA than our Westminster Government! I wouldn't trust David Cameron to understand what marriage is never mind vote for a cronie to elect a president!

We are quite within our rights to tell Donald Tusk and his cronies where to get off!!

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@ASiegel

You have no clue what you said you ignorant.

I must pay 4% import tax under Communitary Integrated Tariffs TARIC.

How do you live without ignoring the basics of buying goods from foreign states in a globalized world?

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/customs/customs_duties/tariff_aspects/customs_tariff/index_en.htm

http://www.exporthelp.co.za/reference/taric_codes.html

And here is an article of Wired Italy on how to make calculations indicating TARIC codes of various categories. (Google translate or use Chrome to read it)

Wired article uses as example leather good (generic TARIC code 4202) that are charged of 2,7%.

http://www.wired.it/internet/web/2014/03/25/acquisti-online-sovrapprezzi-dogana/

Electronics from China pay 4%.

Now that you paid correct import tax from ouside EU be sure your nation will apply low VAT on it.

Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Jun-2016 at 07:07 PM.

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@ASiegel

That's true, his deputy could have taken over in the meantime.

Cheers

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@BigD

Quote:

The main problem is we the people don't have any opportunity to directly vote for him

Cobsidering the amount of self-rightious nationalistic idiots that still wander on this continent, I think that is by neccessity. Also, most people don't know squat about EU and it's governing bodies(look up what's one of the most googled terms after Brexit in the UK)

I would have absoloutely zero problems with abolishing croatian parliament and replacing it with an EU-wide elected central parliament in Brussels or wherever it may be. Why do we need several layers of democracy and all this complications? But because some people still haven't moved on from the 19. century and the concept of nation states, we can't have nice things....

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@Raffaele

You all have my sympathy.
I don't pay anything for items I buy from outside the US.
And in the State I live in, Delaware, I pay no sales tax for goods purchased.
There are charges applied to communications and fuel, but my tax burden is relatively minimal.
In fact, my income has been low enough that I pay very little Federal income tax.

Living under the burden of the taxation levels present in Europe must affect everyones standard of living.

Last edited by iggy on 25-Jun-2016 at 07:00 PM.
Last edited by iggy on 25-Jun-2016 at 06:59 PM.

@iggy

Pardon me. I believed you are from EU...

But do not believe it is all roses and flowers. Delaware has a privileged taxation system... Other states of the Union may apply additional fees to foreign goods.

Ah! BTW! From about some years Canada and United States charged me that live in Europe of a tax for export.
If /ME who live in Europe wanna buy some Ebay Items in US I must pay price + delivery + Export tax from USA.

I never buyed from USA so I dunno if I will be charged of full EU import tax calculated adding USA export tax too, or I could detract part of import tax, as long as I am being charged also this USA export tax when item leaves US territory...

Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Jun-2016 at 08:20 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Jun-2016 at 07:11 PM.

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"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@iggy

Quote:

Living under the burden of the taxation levels present in Europe must affect everyones standard of living.

Indeed. But that's because europeans want public healthcare, cheap schools system and other things that are not free... and if you try to "take it" from them(and thus create some breathing room for lower taxation), they revolt. So we're stuck with high taxes.

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Thanks for the informative feedback everyone. Many ups and downs come, and it will certainly be interesting theater for a while. I just hope no one gets harmed badly in the process.

Plaz

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: @BigD Quote: The main problem is we the people don't have any opportunity to directly vote for him Cobsidering the amount of self-rightious nationalistic idiots that still wander on this continent, I think that is by neccessity. Also, most people don't know squat about EU and it's governing bodies(look up what's one of the most googled terms after Brexit in the UK) I would have absoloutely zero problems with abolishing croatian parliament and replacing it with an EU-wide elected central parliament in Brussels or wherever it may be. Why do we need several layers of democracy and all this complications? But because some people still haven't moved on from the 19. century and the concept of nation states, we can't have nice things....

So which one is it?
First you say the public are idiots and therefore a dictator should be imposed.
You then go on to say, you would be happy with a EU-wide elected central parliament in Brussels or wherever it may be.

The second one goes some way to agreeing with BIgD, so not sure why you replied to his post.
It's that lack of democracy that he was pointing at.

Cheers

_________________
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@Chris_Y

Quote:

Imagine if Georgia had spent several months negotiating deals with the rest of the USA, trying to limit the number of people moving there from other states, and then at the end of those negotiations, after the deal had been agreed, said, "You know what Obama? Screw you. We don't want to be part of the USA any more". Well.... it's a bit like that.

I don't have to imagine too hard. Have you seen the recent US Federal lawsuit?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/24/us/supreme-court-immigration-obama-dapa.html?_r=0

In effect one part of the federal government saying they get to decide the rules, and individual states saying... "hold on, I don't think so". Differnet but similar.

Plaz

@Raffaele

Quote:

You have no clue what you said you ignorant.

See below...

Quote:

Wired article uses as example leather good (generic TARIC code 4202) that are charged of 2,7%. http://www.wired.it/internet/web/2014/03/25/acquisti-online-sovrapprezzi-dogana/ Electronics from China pay 4%..

You can check applicable duties via the following EU database:
EU TARIC Database

In order to recreate the example given in the Italian Wired article, enter "4202929190" in the left input field marked "Goods Code" and choose "China" from the list marked "country of origin".

As you will see, the website correctly display a duty fee of 2.7 % as mentioned by Wired.

Now, enter the goods code for "desktop computers" (as applicable for the A-Eon X5000 which caused this discussion), which is "8471490090". (Source: European Commission - Classifying Computers PDF)

Again, choose China as the country of origin.

Then, please note the listed duty rate.

(Spoiler: It´s 0%.)

Last edited by ASiegel on 25-Jun-2016 at 07:59 PM.

@TiredofLife

Quote:

So which one is it? First you say the public are idiots and therefore a dictator should be imposed. You then go on to say, you would be happy with a EU-wide elected central parliament in Brussels or wherever it may be. The second one goes some way to agreeing with BIgD, so not sure why you replied to his post. It's that lack of democracy that he was pointing at.

An elected central parliament in Brussels is not possible as long Farages of this world exists. That's the issue here.
A lean, fast EU beurocracy is not possible when there are 28 member states with 20 something official languages.
The issues here is that we, Europeans, are still stuck in the nation state mindset, while EU is trying to move from it.

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@BigD

Quote:

We are quite within our rights to tell Donald Tusk and his cronies where to get off!!

We've got a Donald problem over here too. The alternative is just as bad or worse. I'd love to be facing UK political problems right now instead of US political problems.

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