@Overflow post #182

Well said.

One of the reasons why i want Finland out of EU is my lack of faith towards fellow humans.

Unemployment is one of the simplest things to fix as long as unemployment rate isnt very high.

Instead of rising wages 2 percent, companies (that have large amount of workers) would hire 2 percent more workers. It would be same cost for the company, but now company would have more employees. however, People wont accept this solution, since they want higher wages instead of unemployment solved.

For this reason I see as current best option for Finland to reduce unemployment through own currency. With own currency we can inflate and devaluate its value, and that way while we at same time rise the wage making employees happy, we can devaluate the currency, in practice making it possible to hire more people (supposing stuff is sold to other countries).

So while in reality employees wages would go down, they wouldnt realise it.

Own currency could be got even inside EU, but once again I dont believe Finland will ever take its own currency back, unless we are out of EU. Hence, out of EU please.


Immigration crisis also showed very well how badly working EU is. Countries were practically forced to take immigrants, despite all the valid arguments against it.

As example, the point that why put money on such an expensive refugee system, when with same money we could make refugee camps much better places and appealing to everyone, giving added benefits that people after better life wouldnt go to refugee camps, but only those who really are in trouble, terrorists couldnt use refugee camps to get their members to make terrorist attacks in EU, and refugee camps would be accessible to everyone (when compared to running all the way to EU, which isnt possible trip to everyone).

Just take a look at UNHCR statistics. This year there have been (by round numbers) 220 thousand people crossing Mediterranean sea, and 2 800 have drowned trying.

That means that (roundly) 1/80 are drowning.

If you look at death rates in Syrian war, then you can see that during the war time chances for a civilian to die inside a year have constantly been about 1/600.

This means that if Syrian war doesnt last at least 7,5 years still, then none of these who have crossed this year have not been in as big a danger as they are when crossing the mediterranean sea to apply for asylum.

Syrian war have now lasted less than 5 years. We havent helped a single Syrian refugee yet, quite the contrary, European Asylum system have killed more of those people than Syrian war would have killed.

Add to this that not even all of those people get Asylum, but some of those who drowned, were according to us, never in danger in the first place, but drowned in vain, probably because they wanted to play russian roulette in hopes of getting asylum and hence a better life from here.

So we are actually seducing people to play with their lives. How sick is that.

Similarly, if we would really want to help people, we would shut our borders, and use that money instead to help for example Indian street children.

With very low estimate, one refugee (who doesnt necessarily get asylum) costs roughly 6 thousand euros to Finland.

To get Indian street children 10 years of school, food, shelter, hospital, would cost only 3 000 euros.

With the very few studies found about Indian street children, even those few statistics already show that just with those, 1/24 Indian street children die, and that is most likely fvery optimistic number, since that is only HIV on 8-15 years and Hunger death on all Indian Children, so you can imagine hunger death is even more likely for street children.

Someone might say that we should instead help refugees because they come here to ask for help, but i say that if you have two neighbors, one that comes to your door to ask for 6 000, and another whom you can see through your window but who is in condition unable to come ask for your help, but who is in even bigger trouble and whos problems would be solved with 3 000, then which one should you help?

@Bugala

Quote:

...my lack of faith toward fellow humans

I get that.

Look the UK has chosen to leave the EU in a democratic referendum,what really pissed most people off were the elite and the scare tactics they used,it may of worked had they not used it in Scotland during there referendum.Now they say anyone who voted out are racists or ignorant they still don't get it ,whats wrong with these people does the high and mighty opinion of them selfs make them better or Superior to other people to the less well off or to the common man(or woman) ? well does it because they seem to think so .The political elite should be made to live with low income family's from the deprived areas of a country for a week or two that may open there eyes a bit..Under the EU the Elite are doing very well its the common man who is suffering and it will be the common man who revolts does that make him ignorant or racist or just human for wanting to be treated the same as other people................

Right Immigration, in my many years of life in the UK (born and bred) or brawn and bread if ya from the north :), we have always had immigration (in the 40,000) and it was not a problem in fact it was a benefit to our country and our culture heavens knows where we would be without curry,But real numbers of hundreds of thousands are not sustainable ,houseing education NHS and many many other services are under a great deal of strain i see this every day just trying to get to see a Doctor can now takes weeks yes weeks not the next day or days but weeks i may not have bloody weeks left if i am ill ,I am all for helping the less well off or repressed but to do this without hurting everyone we need to get our house in order then we are in a better position to help people..

The UK has made its bed and now we must sleep in it any mistakes we make now are our own we will not be able to blame it on the unelected unremoveable EU ,Hmm maybe thats why the elite wanted to stay they will be in the firing line now...

Rant ended......

At least a GOOOOD news

"France overtakes UK as fifth largest economy as pound plummets"

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/france-overtakes-uk-as-fifth-largest-economy-as-pound-plummets-5964746/

But UK will recover soon I am confident ...

@BigD

Quote:

The EU is an undemocratic money pit that limits our ability to govern ourselves. It was an obvious vote for many voters to extract our country from that trade organisation gone wrong. We'll renegotiate a trade deal with limited movement of people or else the Europeans will miss out on our trade which has a deficit in their favour = their loss.

a) It may be a money pit, but a lot of that money comes directly back to us in the form of grants, and the rest through indirect economic benefit. As soon as Brexit looked like it was winning, the amount of money knocked off the stock market alone could have funded the EU for many years. That's money that's just gone with no benefit unlike the EU membership.

b) Joining the EEA post-EU will result in free movement of people. Also it'll mean we have to put money in and abide by certain EU laws. Except, now we won't benefit from grants and won't have any power to influence those laws. If we don't join the EEA then any European companies based in the UK will move out, which is already on the table.

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Last edited by tlosm on 27-Jun-2016 at 03:01 PM.

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I think it will be best for the UK to be run by its people. It may be harder to separate and I am sure it will cause some problems initially, but in the end I think the UK will be better off running their own affairs and not have another layer of government as an invitation to more corruption.

In todays world, you have to know who it is that is coming into your country. It is not a racist thing, it is a matter of security and protecting the citizens of your country, which should be the primary function of any government.

Over here in the states, it seems that our current government is more concerned about hurting the feelings of the people that are trying to kill us then they are about the lives of its citizens. Our government is so corrupt, that we have the media and members of both Republican and Democrats that would rather have an extremely corrupt, protected politician that belongs in prison than the rare opportunity to have a successful businessman. I guess you can figure who I am for and that is just my opinion, so I will just leave it at that.

I would love to get rid of NAFTA and would feel better about free trade with countries like the UK. Free trade only works when the standard of living is close enough in all countries that there is free trade with. Otherwise it just becomes a way for companies to exploit a cheap work force of people who do not have the same standard of living which is accompanied by the huge sucking sound of jobs flowing out of the country. I think it is stupid to have free trade with any country who's people can not afford to even buy our goods. I think NAFTA had more to do with the economic disaster we had in 2008 than the banks. If people still had jobs they would still be paying the bank loans, even if the loans were upside down.

Anyway, It gives me a renewed sense of faith in people that they can take a difficult step for a better future. I just hope people over here have the same good sense to overcome our corrupt government and a media that plays into the corrupt governments hands.

I should buy UK stocks and hang on to them for about a year or two, before too many people get the same idea.

@olegil

Quote:

"While the European Council has no formal legislative power"

Sorry, but your replies don´t make sense, I commented about composition of European Council, which members are (with few exceptions) top elected officials of their states.

@pavlor

Is this the same European Council that have not signed of on there books for over 20 years,it is the same European Council involved in the corruption of 120Billion Euro annually ,not really the sort of council we should be trusting data from is it ?

@nzv58l

Yet another nimrod that has no understanding of economics (like Trump himself I might add).
His economic proposals would cause massive inflation.
And his dishonesty in business is well known.
Just because his FOUR bankruptcies were legal does not make him trustworty.
I would not trust him with my investments, why would I trust him to run the government?

And the formation of the EU and Nafta bear no resemblance to each other.
Out law lowers taxation and we have enhanced border security.
The Europeans get fleeced for more money and have far less security.

Sure, I can see why Britons wanted out, but we are not in the same position. Mexico and Canada don't threaten our sovereignty.

@thellier

And the bad thing. Now It's up to France and Germany to put the money in the EU.
Quote:

At least a GOOOOD news "France overtakes UK as fifth largest economy as pound plummets" http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/france-overtakes-uk-as-fifth-largest-economy-as-pound-plummets-5964746/ But UK will recover soon I am confident ...

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@nzv58l

Quote:

I think it will be best for the UK to be run by its people. It may be harder to separate and I am sure it will cause some problems initially, but in the end I think the UK will be better off running their own affairs and not have another layer of government as an invitation to more corruption.

Are you also in favor of states such as Texas seceding from the USA?

Last edited by ASiegel on 27-Jun-2016 at 05:37 PM.

@Chris_Y

Quote:

Chris_Y wrote: @BigD Quote: The EU is an undemocratic money pit that limits our ability to govern ourselves. It was an obvious vote for many voters to extract our country from that trade organisation gone wrong. We'll renegotiate a trade deal with limited movement of people or else the Europeans will miss out on our trade which has a deficit in their favour = their loss. a) It may be a money pit, but a lot of that money comes directly back to us in the form of grants, and the rest through indirect economic benefit. As soon as Brexit looked like it was winning, the amount of money knocked off the stock market alone could have funded the EU for many years. That's money that's just gone with no benefit unlike the EU membership. b) Joining the EEA post-EU will result in free movement of people. Also it'll mean we have to put money in and abide by certain EU laws. Except, now we won't benefit from grants and won't have any power to influence those laws. If we don't join the EEA then any European companies based in the UK will move out, which is already on the table.

We still put more money in than we get out.
Indirect economic benefit, is hard to measure and that works both ways, in or out.
Value of companies on the stock market is not a currency governments can spend.

As for your points in B, that remains to be seen what happens next.
It may well turn out as you say but I wouldn't put money on it.
It's in the global interest to get this next stage right.
There is a lot to be discussed.
Will be interesting to see what pans out.

Cheers

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@TiredofLife

Quote:

Value of companies on the stock market is not a currency governments can spend.

Well, you do have a capital gains tax

@ASiegel

Me personally?
I wish I was in that bracket, lol.

Cheers

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@J'Bar

Don´t blame Council, blame voters, who elected these people...

@ASiegel

Secession did not work too well the last time States tried it here, Andre. );

I waiting for the morons who can't take Trumps loss to suggest action.
Treason is still punishable by death.

@iggy

It did the first time though, lol.

Cheers

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@iggy

Quote:

Treason is still punishable by death.

Ah, uncivilized vestiges of past.


Well, if I remember fate of Jefferson Davis, US didn´t take treason too seriously back then...

@TiredofLife

Didn't it though?
They came back and tried again in 1812 and we still won.