@pavlor

No matter how some of them try to dress it up, they are protesting against the result of a democratic process. They want to reverse the vote one way or another if they can. How is that democratic?

My view of a democracy is a country or a state where the politicians serve the people and not sell them out to the multinationals for some personal gain or vanity.

I voted remain reluctantly, acknowledging the EU is far from ideal but there is at least maybe the hope of reforming it

I used to up until recently be on the leave side,

It's up to the national government now to make the best of the situation we are in with an OUT vote, and I hope that the rise in tensions and racist attacks comes to a quick stop soon as this is not the way I want the country to go.

Kind regards,
Spud.

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@Rob

Quote:

No matter how some of them try to dress it up, they are protesting against the result of a democratic process.

Which is their right. It is up to Parliament to decide, referendum was only consultative. If voters (and voting system) elect in the next election EU friendly majority, there will be no Brexit at all.

@pavlor

It was in the Conservative party's manifesto to offer the nation a referendum. It would be completely disingenuous to delay exiting the EU until after another general election! It is bad enough that David Cameron's salary is still being paid for serving as Prime Minister until October despite him refusing to lift a finger to help Britain prepare to leave the EU. He's is a public servant and if he doesn't want to do his job and follow through on the mandate given to him by the people then he should leave office in the next 2 weeks never mind months

The real riots will start if the British political elite attempt to keep us in the EU despite a Brexit vote.

Last edited by BigD on 02-Jul-2016 at 09:39 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 02-Jul-2016 at 09:39 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

. It would be completely disingenuous to delay exiting the EU until after another general election!

It is not that easy. You need to re-negotiate treaties with EU (and treaties, where EU is signatory, but UK not). This will take time, unless you want to cut all links to european market...

I don´t get, why PM didn´t demand fresh elections as soon as possible to get clear mandate for its successor in negotiations.

Quote:

The real riots will start if the British political elite attempt to keep us in the EU despite a Brexit vote.

Well, cca 50 % wants to be IN, cca 50 % out.

@pavlor

Quote:

Well, cca 50 % wants to be IN, cca 50 % out.

Leave won by 52% to 48%.

A clear mandate and it was a high voter turn out:

The referendum turnout was 71.8%, with more than 30 million people voting. It was the highest turnout in a UK-wide vote since the 1992 general election.

It would be a severe breech of democracy to deny the will of the British people and ironically would demonstrate the sort of undemocratic tyranny that the majority of the UK public are attempting to escape from!

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@iggy

1) A small tariff to equalize the money for goods coming in would be easy.

2) A Wall stops the foot/drug traffic from land access. We have something called the Coast Guard for close sea traffic. Others will be stopped by electronic tracking of visas. Personally I would stop all new visas until the border is secure and e-verify is loaded with all current visas and being tracked. People who overstay shall be dealt with.

3) This too shall pass when the fed, which I'm sick up with, Changes some policies.
The other thing is we need to return to the Bresaro program that lets in enough worker seasonally to take care of farm labor. With more citizens working GDP will grow out of inflation and actually pay down debt.

4) It will keep out further infiltration and with some changes we can watch the 2nd generation citizens that may want to convert to fundamentalism.

5) The Donald has done nothing that investment houses and entrepreneurs haven't had to deal with as said before. No competition to the Clinton Crime Family Fund. the government cheats all the people all the time. Business only lose only some of the time.

Now as long as they stop whining, spending and leave my wallet alone I'll stay.

@Rob,

Socialism fails every-time it's tried. Just ask anyone from Venezuela.

@pavlor,

Pure Democracy is mob rule. Vote to rob a store? Fine. Republic is the rule of law. So hold on there!

@QuikSanz

Quote:

Pure Democracy is mob rule. Vote to rob a store? Fine. Republic is the rule of law. So hold on there!

So a political party promises a referendum whereby the majority view of the people will lead to the way forward on the EU. The Conservatives are voted in with that as part of their manifesto. Everyone knows what is at stake hence voter turnout was high. Then inexplicably the losers throw their teddies out of the pram and call for democracy to be suspended because they're worried about their shares, mortgages, pensions and the value of their houses. Some people seem to think referendums should be rejected out of hand because political overlords know best?! If that is your view I can see why the EU Commission with its unelected (by EU citizens) status and unaccountability would be considered ideal! Why bother with a Parliamentary Democracy when you can get a team of 'experts' together to dictate to a populace what they should do and what they should spend their money on

Last edited by BigD on 02-Jul-2016 at 10:46 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

Leave won by 52% to 48%.

Right.

Quote:

A clear mandate and it was a high voter turn out:

Clear mandate?

OUT won by mere 4 %, your nation is divided by half and no side has "clear mandate".

It would be naive to think, the IN side will give up and not strike back at the very next opportunity. Once they have majority, where it matters (House of Commons), they will decide as they like - regardless of opinion of OUT side. Same for the other side. Only real "clear mandate" may end such madness.

@QuikSanz

Quote:

Socialism fails every-time it's tried. Just ask anyone from Venezuela.

This reminds me of discussion between my brother and his american colleague (both PhD in physics). US scientist couldn´t believe our university grade education is for free (well, we must pay up to 150 USD/month for dormitory space ).

@pavlor

Quote:

It would be naive to think, the IN side will give up and not strike back at the very next opportunity. Once they have majority, where it matters (House of Commons), they will decide as they like - regardless of opinion of OUT side. Same for the other side. Only real "clear mandate" may end such madness.

The people have spoken and that's all there is to it. Why the remain voters don't just focus on our future free of the red tape and unwarranted control over our sovreign state I really can't understand

They lost, that's it and they need to get over it. If there is anything to protest over it's David Cameron not initiating Article 50 now so that we can start negotiating our exit thereby removing uncertainty and starting the road to economic recovery. Within a decade we'll have outperformed the Eurozone economically and started paying back our sizable national debt. The remain people will soon see how they can still visit the Algarve for their two week summer holiday and watch Eurovision with their faces painted with Euro stars if they wish

Last edited by BigD on 02-Jul-2016 at 11:03 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

They lost, that's it and they need to get over it.

They lost by mere 4 %. With 60+ % for OUT vote, there wouldn´t be any such discussion.

Quote:

Why the remain voters don't just focus on our future free of the red tape and unwarranted control over our sovreign state I really can't understand

Because they think majority of voters just did the biggest mistake of their life and ruined UK for entire generation.

Quote:

Within a decade we'll have outperformed the Eurozone economically

And OS5 will be better than Mac OS X.

Last edited by pavlor on 02-Jul-2016 at 11:06 PM.

@pavlor

Quote:

They lost by mere 4 %. With 60+ % for OUT vote, there wouldn´t be any such discussion.

50%+ is all that is needed to win a referendum, we all knew the rules and the Conservatives won a general election on the back of that manifesto promise. Therefore, job done. People can moan on Twitter all they want but the fact of the matter is that if the referendum is overturned then democracy is dead and we might as well have been taken over by a totalitarian European Super State led by unelected political elite.

Quote:

Because they think majority of voters just did the biggest mistake of their life and ruined UK for entire generation.

They're entitled to their view but not entitled to try and subvert democracy. Rather than moan about not getting science grants from the EU, why don't the 'remain' voters start their own businesses and actually do something to HELP the economy rather than moan about it.

This country will be back in our hands and if we honour God, work hard and stop killing 200,000 unborn children every year due to our ridiculously liberal abortion laws then there is no reason God won't bless this country with economic prosperity. If we act like greedy, ungrateful and petulant people like we seem to have become then yes we'll probably be a persecuted underclass in an Islamic state within three generations. Either way coming out of the EU at least puts our laws and benefit system / border control back under our control. And if our politicians can't negotiate a deal on free trade along with immigration restriction then someone isn't earning their ridiculous salaries.

Last edited by BigD on 02-Jul-2016 at 11:23 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 02-Jul-2016 at 11:21 PM.

_________________
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@BigD

Quote:

50%+ is all that is needed to win a referendum, we all knew the rules and the Conservatives won a general election on the back of that manifesto promise.

What if next elections bring strong IN majority?

Only Parliament has constitutive functions in UK, this referendum was only consultative. That are rules.

Quote:

They're entitled to their view but not entitled to try and subvert democracy.

They have full right to voice their opinion, unless they burn the Palace of Westminster of course.

Quote:

if we honour God

Quote:

and stop killing 200,000 unborn children every year due to our ridiculously liberal abortion laws

Quote:

then there is no reason God won't bless this country with economic prosperity.

I´m horrified. Glad I´m living in country with strong atheist majority.

Quote:

Either way coming out of the EU at least puts our laws and benefit system / border control back under our control.

Border control? UK is not part of the Shengen Area, you even have op-outs in other policies (eg. concerning current quota "solution" of refugee crisis). Leaving EU can´t change this...

@BigD

Careful, not all remain voters are demanding a second referendum. In fact it is a tiny minority.

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@BigD,

Conservatives in one country are not the same as the next and from what I've seen from the Republican party here is a bunch of spineless politicians that have thrown in with the liberals on globalism. The lack of identity will destroy any country. They must assimilate.

@pavlor,

Does the UK have no go areas with Sharia law, like France? Losing the country is what it's called.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: This country will be back in our hands and if we honour God, work hard and stop killing 200,000 unborn children every year due to our ridiculously liberal abortion laws then there is no reason God won't bless this country with economic prosperity. If we act like greedy, ungrateful and petulant people like we seem to have become then yes we'll probably be a persecuted underclass in an Islamic state within three generations.

You should join the Tea Party movement.
And leave out the god nonsense. It's no better than this pathetic "inshallah" of these few misguided Islamics. Religion is a private matter. Bringing it up causes trouble only. Just leave it out of politics or economics.

Quote:

Either way coming out of the EU at least puts our laws and benefit system / border control back under our control. And if our politicians can't negotiate a deal on free trade along with immigration restriction then someone isn't earning their ridiculous salaries.

There will be no special deal. Majority of EU will not accept a cherry picking of Little Britain. If I wouldn't like the UK so much (Manchester was my 2nd home for a while) I would laugh to this referendum's result all day. But unfortunately it's not funny. Sorry for the UK, it was a nice time with you. But now it will fall apart and become rather meaningless. If the out voters get happy with that - fine, congratulations then.

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