@klx300r

Actually, that just demonstrates that there's little interest in amiga-oid systems period.
Doesnt matter if its cheap powerful hardware or overpriced weak hardware. We're a niche and one that's hard to sell to anyone outside the usual circle.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 07-Aug-2016 at 05:15 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 07-Aug-2016 at 05:13 PM.

@fishy_fis

basically yes BUT today we're divided into 4 camps using Amiga like systems so the debate should be how to unite the 4 camps to agree on one platform moving forward so all of us "niche" users at least have some numbers behind us when purchasing simlar hardware and software

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@klx300r

Quote:

basically yes BUT today we're divided into 4 camps using Amiga like systems so the debate should be how to unite the 4 camps to agree on one platform

Oh no, not again...

As I wrote, the time for this passed more than 10 years ago. Our only duty now is to enjoy our hobby, not to reach world peace.

@pavlor

I know eh it's like saying lets all solve world peace in Amiga terms but hey I have to smile thinking that we're still here, all of us Amiga users, in 2016 so as long as we're here then the Amiga still lives on!

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X1000 I BELIEVE

@klx300r

If one can call constant bickering over irrelevant stuff "being alive".

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@klx300r

i can say for sure amigang isnt a hobby for reach people...
if someone start saving money from when x5000 was annonced i m sure now can have it.
reach hobbies are others, and reach are others... if reach means have a computer ... sorry guys you have a strange vision of reachness

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#nomorea-eoninmyhome

The topic at hand was debunked on page 1, how is this still going?

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

Quote:

tlosm wrote: @klx300r i can say for sure amigang isnt a hobby for reach people... if someone start saving money from when x5000 was annonced i m sure now can have it. reach hobbies are others, and reach are others... if reach means have a computer ... sorry guys you have a strange vision of reachness

I never said that? I wasn't rich when I saved up for my Amiga 1000 back in the day and certainly wasn't rich when I saved up for my X1000, or car, house, most EXPENSIVE thing in the world-WIFE etc etc.

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c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

Quote:

Yasu wrote: @klx300r If one can call constant bickering over irrelevant stuff "being alive".

now you're truly asking for miracles in Amiga land

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! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
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X1000 I BELIEVE

@klx300r

was not direct to you, but there are many who thinking exactly this...
like have a computer is be reach. but dont understand that one classic amiga 4000 good equiped have hi value compared a new x5000...
in my case i sold my pegasos2, my Xe, my a4000 604e 366... and buy one machine and have money for extra things

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@fishy_fis

Quote:

And I simply mean that open source projects arent something that get much attention from people en mass. It's a specific, proportionally small audience that will follow open source software. Double so for something like an OS.

I can't understand the message "between the lines", that seems to be "AROS would be more popular, if it was closed source"...

Elsewhere in open source world, if open source was automatically make the product "less desireable", why does Linux power probably the most operating systems in the world? (counting user / install base, although it would probably also win on "different alternatives")

Good luck finding any network gear without linux. There are some, and many of "the rest" are based on unix instead. On the phone market linux really dominates (although iPhone is also quite popular - maybe less popular because they use open source?). Of course it's also used in cars.

And also, does the fact that Microsoft also offers some open source components make them less popular?

here is a list of open source components in MorphOS. There probably exists similar page for AmigaOS4 aswell, but cannot find it...

-EDIT-

And my personal opinion?

I'd assume most people use whatever software they need or like. Most people probably don't even care if it's open source or not. Being "free (of charge)" might play a big role, but that has nothing to do with whether or not the source is open.

And in addition to "does it do what I need to do", one rather important thing is, how well it's "packaged" for an average user. Most windows users wouldn't probably bother downloading git snapshot for compilation, as a rather "extreme" example.

And I agree, this "packaging" has been bit of a problem with AROS too in the past, but since the birth of AROS distros (icaros, aspireos etc.) this has been mostly "cured". Still, if you just "start googling for AROS", you can easily end up on a page, that's meant for developers rather than end users, and it will all look way too complex.

Last edited by Jupp3 on 07-Aug-2016 at 11:08 PM.
Last edited by Jupp3 on 07-Aug-2016 at 11:00 PM.

@tlosm

oh look not vesa.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3Z2MAN-3M&feature=youtu.be

intelGMA native drivers with mesa 12.1 though ;)

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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

In regards to the open source comments, rather than trying to dismiss the idea so quickly, perhap try applying a bit of though to the suggestion?
Granted I didnt express myself as clearly as I might've, but try replacing "open source", with non-commercial, unadvertised, with little exposure.
In that context open source has a restrictive audience (*AGAIN*), especially for something like an OS.
When Jo Public goes looking for software he has a particular something in mind. The *only* people looking for something like an open source operating system are those following a niche already. It's rarely something a random person stumbles across while looking for free applications. Even if they did they'd have to be interested already. Once again, small audience.

@ribdevil

You're right, Windows 1.0 was November 1985. I must have been brainwashed by the film were Jobs said to Gates this his windows was better. And Gates responded by saying it doesn't matter if his is better. And it wasn't as Windows got more popular.

Yes, Windows was built on top of DOS. Perhaps I could say then before us is MSDOS and Mac. And after WinDOS.

But as pointed out, Mac came out in 1984, the Amiga unfortunately trail blazed in 1985. And I think this may have affected market penetration. If only Commodore became friends with Microsoft like Apple people did.

What's interesting is a dispute by Apple to overlapping windows in Windows 2.x. Did they also want to dispute the Intuition overlapping windows? Makes me wonder if Commodore licensed any of this from Xerox.

@pavlor

Quote:

Last opportunity for sustainable Amiga commercial developement was in the early 2000s. Bill McEwen estimated 5000 AmigaOne boards would suffice as basis for such market. In the end, around that number of all A1 and Pegasos boards were sold, dividing market in two similar parts, both doomed to ultimate failure as neither side could reach such "critical mass" alone.

Not really.

Majority of Pegasos sales were outside Amiga market. I only have found unofficial numbers but the best unofficial reference I found is 3500 to Linux and 1500 to MorphOS (in 2006, including Pegasos 1 and 2).

With those figures Eyetech should have sold at least 3500 boards to the Amiga market. Prospects for Eyetech A1 are even better if we assume that 1500 MorphOS boards is too optimistic.

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@fishy_fis

Quote:

It's a fun system so there'll be a few new people here and there, but trying to work out a way to make it mainstream and/or popular again is pointless.

I agree. It's been too, little late, for a number of years now. There's less chance of Amiga hitting the mainstream again then there is of AmigaOS4 being ported to x86 and coming to a PC near you before the X5000 is released. LOL.

Quote:

Joe Public simply doesnt want or need another half baked system in an already flooded marketplace.

And it wouldn't exactly be relevant to them anyway. Recently I noticed these Oppo phones I've never heard of and something called ColorOS. Upon further investigation I found they were an already established electronic brand and their OS is just another customised Android. But before then I'd never heard of them!

I think the Amiga OS and hardware may have been suitable for use as portable devices if they expanded it. But it lost that opportunity and then Linux expanded from a simple Unix clone running on your PC to every device imaginable. Securing its place against whatever MS and Apple do.

Quote:

For the record, I like both :)

Haha. When you look at it the Amiga may have been the best thing for Commodore. Prior to this they managed to lock themselves into one piece of technology called the C64 that the users just wouldn't let go. Alternates like the Plus/4 failed despite what they offered and even the C128 had to be crippled so it was compatible instead of updating the gfx and sound chips. Which seems ridiculous now. The Amiga was like a complete break. Completely different CPU, gfx and sound model as well as OS.

Had this not happened I'm sure Commodore would milked the C64 for all its worth into the next decade. Alongside making PCs in the form of Colts and possibly other forms of horses. Until the C64 couldn't compete with a Commodore Windows PC and they would have ended up turning into Escom a lot sooner.

@Yssing

Quote:

So even after Helge has been banned from most forums, he still continues to cause a fuss.

Yes. There must be moles on his behalf.

But, Helge just wants the truth of what's going on, as much as any of us. He just makes a bigger deal of it I suppose.

@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote: my quad g5 10 years machine can today play a race with an i5

Please stop making a fool out of yourself. No G5 nor X5000 compares to an i5.

This is the second or the third thread you claim this. They are not in the same league. They are not in the same dimension. They are even several dimensions apart!

Edit: Here are some "benchmarks" proving the world is flat. Knock youself out:
http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html




Quote:

about prize ... no one ask you to buy something or you buy or not ...

The normal thing would be asking people to buy something for sale. But when you put a Ferrari price tag on a Skoda, few people will.

These extreme prices is what killed OS4. Hyperion, Eyetech and AeonKit are to blame. And people like you, that made it easy for them to do it by constantly saying that this is the only way, no other options should be considered, etc. They were wrong all along. You were wrong all along. It's proven now. And yet you still persist, like rabbits on a highway, running towards the lights.

I suppose it doesn't matter anymore, it's way too late now anyway.


Quote:

i been buy it because i understand the small market, i understand the developing prize and understand taxes... if people dont understand this is not ar aeon foult is a foult of ignorance of the people

Oh yes, blame the people, that's the way to go!

Genesi/bPlan was once working on a Quad G5 computer of their own:



They eventually cancelled it, since a full system would end up costing more than their targeted $1,500 which would have made it very difficult to sell, in their opinion. This was in 2006, when people's acceptance for high computer prices was much, much higher.

They had several other PPC based developments going after the Pegasos 2, reaching various state of development before they pulled the plug:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=40622&forum=2&start=800&viewmode=flat&order=0#772269

Soon they left PPC behind altogether. They were not the first, and certainly not the last.

Now even NXP (Freescale) is opting for ARM instead:

"ARM-based roadmap contains next-gen SoC while Power-based roadmap doesn't. From this can be concluded that from NXP there will not only be no successor to the e6500/e6501 core (which was already evident before) but also no new SoC based on e6500/e6501 core."

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7675&post_id=126326&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&showonepost=1

Great future indeed...

Last edited by TRIPOS on 08-Aug-2016 at 12:24 PM.

@Jupp3

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote: I can't understand the message "between the lines", that seems to be "AROS would be more popular, if it was closed source"...

There are so many things one can't understand around here.

One other thing is "but how would it compete on the x86 with all the other OS's"? I mean, why would it suddenly start competing? Is it competing with these OS's toady on PPC? And if so, is it winning because of the PPC? MorphOS will be MorphOS, so it will primarily be an OS for people interested in MorphOS. Only difference is that it will have a life after PPC, it will not lack CPU power, and presumably it will get modern features. It will also have lower barriers for outsiders to try, but that's merely a bonus, after all it's an OS for Morphers, why would this change?

Another thing is this constant talk about dual core (or quad core) PPC CPU's. People even benchmark multi-core PPC's. Why? Amiga is per definition single core, the moment you change this you have broken the compatibility, and with that there will be no reason to stay on PPC at all.

Another thing is that it's only through "new" (meaning: newly assembled using ancient performing components), low volume custom built H/W that OS4 can have a future, and the mere thought of porting to second hand Mac H/W should be mocked and fought on any possible occasion. The MorphOS situation is often used as a deterring example of a situation to avoid, since there can be no future on used H/W. Yet if you look back in time, you will see that MorphOS has almost always have had access to relatively cheap H/W, powerful H/W, easily obtainable H/W. The best H/W the PPC platform had to offer! While H/W for OS4 has practically always been either unavailable, or simply out of reach for potential customers due to their extreme costs. And this while they have offered the same or worse performance than the MorphOS H/W, and no laptops, no Mini's, etc. How did this help OS4 really? IMHO this has only turned the OS4 community into an Internet Discussion Club, while the MorphOS community are users, practicing their Amiga NG hobby, really using the stuff.

This forum is full of inconsistencies, contraditions and flawed logic.

Best not try to understand...

@TRIPOS

You seem to underestimate how important "heritage" and "amiga trademark" was and is too many. If it is only about features and price then MorphOS should have succeeded also for some Ambient is too "modern" for amiga, they wanted the look&feel from the "classics" on the NG hardware. To have that feeling and believe to have a amiga in front of them many (in amiga terms) are willing to spend lots of money on it. To me that is strange of course (I would not) and it is not how people outside think but we talk about a small nerd market here, not a mass market it was a long time before. Regarding MorphOS I think they should have dropped compatibility from day one and make MorhOS a modern up-to-date alternative, I know that MorphOS is advanced in many areas but compared to real world it inherited the same limitations because it needed to be compatible to 68k. Now it is too late to really make a difference, a new "MorphOS NG" might be interesting to some of the current MorphOS user, but I do not think it will add a big market expecially if no software available.