@Kronos

Quote:

DDR-RAM is still being used (only at higher clocks), GBit-Net is also as good as it gets, but most importanly Pegs do get sold outside "amiga", they do work with Linux (without to much hassle), they don't cost a fortune, they do have a working consumer-support and they are known by "big fishs".

I don't see why this answers my point. Probably because it doesn't in the slightest.

Quote:

I think even the hardest BAF would be know have to admit that a Mac or x86 port wouldn't put fear into MS or Apple for several years to come, and there is hardly anything they could do if Amiga acts just a bit smarter than Be did.

Lets put aside a PC port, if AROS *ever* becomes popular ( as in the maginitudes more that those who claim AmigaOS should be PC based claim ) and gets charged for to cover costs of development and support ( and I don't mean hosted, I mean 'native' ), then I might admit Im wrong on this.

A Mac port I don't really see the point of, due to the business issues, the support issues and the bundling issues as well as competing head on head with MacOSX as Macs arent so cheap but they are more advanced to the point where they make the AmigaONE and the Pegasos2 look like relics. Certainly a more potentially interesting platform to port to.

No, I think we have to look at other hardware sources.

Your business model you are a proponent of is the cross-subsidy from Linux sales. That doesn't seem to be borne out that its working does it, as I see that practically everyone who was in Genesi USA has been laid off or axed, same for its European offices. BPlan hardly seems to be rolling in it and the MorphOS user numbers on MorphZone whilst swelled with those keeping an eye on whats going on there, doesn't seem to be particularly boosted.

If someone buys a board to run Linux, they aren't going to help the Amiga software market now are they because they aren't going to be an Amiga Operating System customer!

We need an extremly cheap board ( and frankly if I was a newcomer to the market in general and concerned about price rather than Operating System I would never for a split second consider the Pegasos or AmigaONE over a low end PC which is whilst low end for the PC pisses all over the specs of either of those two ) and an extremly high end board. One to drive mass sales and one to be something to aspire to. Mass sales translates to 5000 to 10000 in the Amiga market. Then I'd say we had a chance of reaching a userbase critical mass.

So please, for ONCE, get the point its NOT about the hardware - else NONE of us would be here at all - its about the Operating System. In this case, in my case, AmigaOS Version 4.0.

@Kronos

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And offcourse M$ does have a sufficinet market-share and they also have enough HW-options, dunno why you trying to compare them to Hyperion (ups, apples and.... again).

I was actually using a parallel example with regard to Amiga Inc and M$. (AI needs to be approached first to negotiate an actual license) I used M$ to emphasize that things aren't always black & white. Like if I have the money to pay for the development to port OS A or B to platform A or B and then this would mean it happens or even makes business sense.

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Be directly targeted to replace (classic)-MacOS with their OS, which in combintion with the mac-clones would have meant Apples certain death.

I fail to see how people buying Apple hardware together with the bundled MacOS and afterwards replacing MacOS with BeOS results into Apple's "certain death".... (IMO preventing MacOS to easily dual boot on Apple hardware, would have hurt Be Inc more than Apple, considering the lack of software available for BeOS at the time)

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No. I'm afraid not.

Really ?

Someone is ready to pay a licence for a port of your OS that could double its user base (meaning more sells, more users, more developers, more everything...) and you can't get him in touch with Amiga, Inc. ?

Seems like either you really don't want to see OS4 on the Pegasos, either I have missed something...

Leo.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo

Seems like you are reading into that what you want to.

@Wiffy

Quote:

Seems like you are reading into that what you want to.

I rarely agree with Leo, but this time he is singing notes even I can understand.

@hooligan

The question was:

Quote:

Quote: Wouldn't Hyperion be in a better position to help Acill get a deal going with Amiga Inc. No. I'm afraid not.

And the answer is above.

Its categorical, they cannot help Acill get a deal going with Amiga Inc. As to why you had better ask them. Waving 15,000 in front of their noses will make no difference, because it is not a financial thing.

To be honest with you I rather suspect people are looking for people like Hyperion to state in public 'no we won't port on the Pegasos' and then they can go around beating them up on forums.

They clearly haven't said that, and people who were waiting for that are clearly reading that into what was written.

My 2c, you can agree with it or not, thats why opinions are so useful.

@Wiffy

Actually I was speaking about Hyperion trying to contact Amiga Inc. and tell them about this, incase they have not seen any of those emails. Highly unlikely that they haven't but one can never know.

@MikeB

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I fail to see how people buying Apple hardware together with the bundled MacOS and afterwards replacing MacOS with BeOS results into Apple's "certain death".... (IMO preventing MacOS to easily dual boot on Apple hardware, would have hurt Be Inc more than Apple, considering the lack of software available for BeOS at the time)

Remember we are talking about MacOS8 in this context, an OS that was relativly slow (since it still contained 68k-code and no JIT) and rather primitive (compared to OSX or BeOS).

Be's plan was to win a reasonable marketshare of PPC-users, which would be less and less interested in MacOS and in the end prepared to go for a HW without MacOS-support.

Developing such HW wasn't feasable when Be started due to too small user-base, but once that would have gone through 100k costumers useing BeOS as the primary OS (read not just BBFs ) it would have meant sense, and Apple would have lost both HW and OS costumers.

Thats why Apple closed down the G3 and killed the clones.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos

Quote:

Remember we are talking about MacOS8 in this context, an OS that was relativly slow (since it still contained 68k-code and no JIT) and rather primitive (compared to OSX or BeOS).

I agree that BeOS was fundamentally superior compared to both MacOS or Win9x at the time. But the advantage Apple and Microsoft had was marketing power and a large pool of good quality software for their OS solutions.

Quote:

Be's plan was to win a reasonable marketshare of PPC-users, which would be less and less interested in MacOS and in the end prepared to go for a HW without MacOS-support.

I don't think you have proof for this. If you mean to say that Be Inc would try to offer a better OS product than Apple or Microsoft (and thus try to gain marketshare), well that should IMO be applauded within a more competitive market. The same goes for Apple clone manufacturers.

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Thats why Apple closed down the G3 and killed the clones.

No BeOS wasn't the reason for Apple to put an end to Mac cloning. Apple started to license the Macintosh ROMs and system software to other manufacturers in 1995 in an effort to increase Apple's desktop market share. Especially the clone manufacturer Power Computing did very well for two years, but Apple wasn't doing so well within this more competitive environment, so they demanded higher royalties from Power Computing and other clone makers. When the clone makers refused to re-negotiate the clone license agreement, Steve Jobs refused to license later versions of Apple hardware and operating systems to the clone vendors, effectively ending Macintosh cloning.

@Wiffy

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Maybe someone could buy the licensing side from Gateway, or the OS part of the contract between them and the AmigaONE Partners.

keep spitting out the ideas Wiffy, maybe one will stick.

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Kronos

Quote:

So "Amiga" needs a HW that is bought by outsiders, and it doesn't matter wether that is a Pegasos, a Mac (mini or not), AHT's STB or something else , but "Amiga" certainly can't have to many supported HWs.

how about a HW design that any company can license?

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@hooligan

Quote:

Actually I was speaking about Hyperion trying to contact Amiga Inc. and tell them about this, incase they have not seen any of those emails. Highly unlikely that they haven't but one can never know.

sorry but that's not Hyperions job, thats Acii's job. If Acii wanted to get somewhere he should have sat down first thing with Sendix, learned from his mistakes and gone on.

For those with OS4 prereleases, Im sure they want Hyperion to spend their time "getting it done".

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Interesting

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sorry but that's not Hyperions job, thats Acii's job. If Acii wanted to get somewhere he should have sat down first thing with Sendix, learned from his mistakes and gone on.

If my company was to receive 15000 dollars and all it requires is to inform my partner about it, I'd not hesitate much. Then again, maybe Hyperion is in the exact same situation with Acill and thats why they say it's 'impossible' to help: They have no contact with them either.

Anyway it is, I haven't considered Amiga Inc as a real company for years now so all this doesn't come as a surprise.

@Acill

follow the money...
AOS must either/and/or
1. scale down to all manner of handhelds
2. move across to STB/game-consoles
3. port to Apple hardware
4. port to some G5 or SMP G4 design that
may become feasible in the future @ 3+ ghtz

or 5. (and only one more shot at it: because
time and technology is ticking)
...a fabulous, and bug free G3/4 mobo for the
3rd world...(which describe neither Peg II nor A1)

If AInc have zeroed in on any of these, the idea
of revealing their business plans to 'us', or getting
more involved with the mediocre status quo
hardware available now, is simply not going to
happen, regardless of any coding greatness
displayed by Hyperion/MorphOS coders.

edit: follow the BIG money...

@thread/acill

I bet you have.

_________________
Fraggle

- insert profound text here -

@hooligan

Quote:

If my company was to receive 15000 dollars and all it requires is to inform my partner about it, I'd not hesitate much.

I'm sure its much more complex then that. Remember a 19 page contract was made up regarding the "Amiga Partners".

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Interesting

You didn't read what I said earlier. I am talking ONLY about the help in contacting Amiga Inc., not any contract nor something like that at all.

Btw, I'm not looking for anything. I'm just wondering why someone behind an OS that has the opportunity to double its user base thanks to some people don't do anything to get this guy in touch with the owner of the OS rights. That's simply it. (and I mean getting him touch, not getting him some contract: the actual problem is that Acill received no sign of life from Amiga...)

There's no way this could happen in a normal world. (ie: without all these stupid guerillas around the Amiga)

Leo.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo

Because he already has the same means to contact Amiga Inc. You see if they give him a number or e-mail it is the same thing as he already has. So at that point we will see a thread "why did Hyperion gave me a fake number e-mail address". He contacted Amiga Inc. and they did not reply back. Simple as that. I don't see what Hyperion has to do with this. I amazes me how sometimes people can put a spin on a thread that will make someone look so bad while they don't have anything to do with it. Amiga Inc. did not reply back, why not keep it at that. Next thing we know everyone will bring AW in it because we did not help him out to contact Amiga Inc. Why not bring my mom in it? She has a phone, she could have called Amiga Inc. Stupid right?

Coder

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@Coder

Quote:

I amazes me ..

Thats ok, I amaze myself every now and then aswell

Quote:

...how sometimes people can put a spin on a thread that will make someone look so bad while they don't have anything to do with it.

It surely wasn't Leo's or my intention to spin the thread or make anyone look bad. We both were just wondering why Hyperion couldn't do a bit more to help Acill get in contact with Amiga Inc. Thats all.. really, it's only you who is trying to put a spin on this thread, not us

BTW, if you think your momma could help Acill to get in touch with AInc., by all means ask her to help!