Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5650 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 46 guest(s) on-line.
 2 member(s) on-line.


 tonyw,  BigD

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 tonyw:  4 mins ago
 BigD:  4 mins ago
 Xenic:  7 mins ago
 50mm:  13 mins ago
 zzd10h:  18 mins ago
 sywyl:  25 mins ago
 rob_d:  27 mins ago
 alpyre:  27 mins ago
 juwyhax:  28 mins ago
 Frank:  32 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Register To Post

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread
danwood 
Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 28-Nov-2010 21:31:01
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2008
Posts: 1057
From: Unknown

Wow! Checked out the Tripos manual on-line, even today, AmigaOS/DOS is very very close to it.

http://www.pagetable.com/docs/amigados_tripos/tripos_manuals.pdf

Even down to directory naming and devices.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Wraith2021 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 28-Nov-2010 22:58:30
#2 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2006
Posts: 95
From: Leeds, UK

@danwood

According to the original plans, the Amiga hardware was to be accompanied by CAOS, which stood for "Commodore Amiga Operating System", and was to be built on top of lower-level components like Exec. Instead of CAOS, which never made it to a shipping version, a British research project known as Tripos (named after the chair where Cambridge University exam candidates had to sit), designed by Tim King, was ported to the Amiga, and became "AmigaDOS".

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ChrisH 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 28-Nov-2010 23:05:47
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@danwood
The similarity is scary :) . And I already learnt some new things about AmigaDOS reading that:

There is no need for "TYPE file.txt" since "COPY file.txt TO *" does the same thing.

And you can create a text file by typing 'directly' (without a text editor) using "COPY * TO file.txt". Ctrl-\ ends the file. Spooky!

And this at least explains why * does not act as the #? pattern by default.


I also learnt that ending a line with + causes the next line to be part of it, so you can split a command over two lines! (Even from the Shell)


AmigaDOS/Tripos trivia:

"L:" actually stood for "Library", but this seems to be the Tripos word for Handlers. Seems that Tripos didn't have any Amiga-like Libraries?

"S:" actually stood for "Sequence", not "Script" as I had assumed.

Last edited by ChrisH on 28-Nov-2010 at 11:28 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 28-Nov-2010 at 11:20 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 28-Nov-2010 at 11:15 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 28-Nov-2010 at 11:14 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olsen 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 29-Nov-2010 8:25:22
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 691
From: Germany

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
@danwood
The similarity is scary :)


"scary" is definitely the right word.

Quote:

And I already learnt some new things about AmigaDOS reading that:

There is no need for "TYPE file.txt" since "COPY file.txt TO *" does the same thing.


That's the theory. In practice the difference is that the "Type" command will check much more frequently if you hit Ctrl+C than the "Copy" command does, and has at least one interesting bug which the "Copy" command does not have.

This can make a world of difference if you copy a large file to the console, as the contents will quickly scroll away and thereby preventing the Ctrl+C signal to be delivered to the culprit. The "Type" command at least gives you a way out to stop the whole mess

Another difference between the two is that the "Type" command in AmigaOS 2.x and beyond has a problem with files that contain binary data, specifically NUL-bytes. For such files "type foo >bar" is not equivalent to "copy foo bar" since the "Type" command will truncate the "lines" containing NUL bytes.

Fun fact: "type file opt fish" is equivalent to "type file opt hex" in AmigaOS 2.x and beyond.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bitman 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 29-Nov-2010 8:40:03
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2008
Posts: 691
From: Fredericia, Denmark

@danwood

Have you read wiki about Tripos:

". MetaComCo acquired the rights to the 68000 version and continued development until TRIPOS was chosen by Commodore Amiga in March 1985 to form part of an operating system for their new computer."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIPOS?oldid=0

_________________
Maintainer of www.bigbookofamigahardware.com

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
danwood 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 29-Nov-2010 17:33:29
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2008
Posts: 1057
From: Unknown

@bitman

Yeah I was aware of it's history, just nice to see just how much of it is still in the Amiga, even down to device naming.

You can see a like for like comparison of the Tripos/AmigaDOS manuals here, basically they just did a "find/replace" for Tripos with amigados!

http://www.pagetable.com/?p=193

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 0:14:16
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 691
From: Trondheim, Norway

I typically alias "ed" to "c:ed window=*", something I've done for at least 10 years.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Thematic 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 1:56:20
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1612
From: I'm actually flying into a bug!

@olsen

That type opt example probably holds for 68k (BCPL?) commands, OS 4.1 type parses it differently and the 'h' has to be the first letter: type file opt hand

_________________
: AmigaOneXE (unmod.) 750FX/512 MB +stuff & AmigaOS 4.(0|1)
: A1200/68060&96MB/SCSI/EM1200-Voodoo3 & OS 3.5
: A500/1MB
: Pegasos (ff) 512 MB & MorphOS
Praise seitan.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Chris_Y 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 8:30:18
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3102
From: Beds, UK

@ChrisH

Quote:
And you can create a text file by typing 'directly' (without a text editor) using "COPY * TO file.txt". Ctrl-\ ends the file. Spooky!


You can do the same in MS-DOS, although I think the syntax is slightly different (might be CON instead of *, don't remember) and Ctrl-Z ends the file.

Quote:

"L:" actually stood for "Library"


That mystery solved at last!

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
LtPlay49 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 14:18:22
#10 ]
New Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2010
Posts: 4
From: France

What i find really interesting is this :

"Cintpos, an interpretive implementation of the Tripos Portable Operating System"

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mr10/Cintpos.html

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mr10/BCPL.html

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mr10/bcplman.pdf

This is a BCPL virtual machine (remember why there was so much bcpl code in amiga os? ) running Tripos.

kind of like microsoft singularity project :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity_(operating_system)

Rightly done, with managed code, you Instantly win memory protection without using virtual memory and so keeping message passing without copy in an Amiga OS system. You also win portable code between power pc, x86... and so on.

That the way i would have gone with AROS if i was a talented and persuasive enough coder .

And please, don't talk about Amiga OE, Amiga Anywhere or Amiga OS 5...

_________________
Classic Amiga 1200, WinUAE, E-UAE, AROS
== iPhone, iPod touch, iPad : Ami Ball 3D / BoogerZ game ==

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olsen 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 17:23:16
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 691
From: Germany

@Thematic

Quote:

Thematic wrote:
@olsen

That type opt example probably holds for 68k (BCPL?) commands


I haven't checked the BCPL code, but the 'C' language version of the "Type" command did go the extra mile to look at each letter of the "opt" parameter to figure out if it was maybe an 'h' or an 'n'. And it complained if it found both letters in the same option. Hence, "opt fish" will be equivalent to "opt h" because there's an 'h' in there, but "opt hound" will be trouble, because there's both an 'h' and a 'd' in it.

Now the question is, why did the option processing code have to check each letter? I haven't got the foggiest...

Quote:
OS 4.1 type parses it differently and the 'h' has to be the first letter: type file opt hand


Correct. Among other tweaks (the "auto" and "width" switches for example) I made that change in 2004

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Leo 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 19:37:37
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1562
From: Unknown

Quote:

There is no need for "TYPE file.txt" since "COPY file.txt TO *" does the same thing.

I don't see why you would use though, it since the first one is easier to understand and faster to type ;)

'echo "foo" > file.txt' is also a faster way to create a new file...

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
BooBoo 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 0:08:36
#13 ]
Member
Joined: 13-May-2007
Posts: 45
From: Unknown

Have a look here
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=45716

TripOS > AmogaOS >

While talking about shell commands anyone know if something like this is Possible

Echo "Execute " + #?.bat

eg output if file Start.bat exists "Execute Start.bat" in the same line
I could do Echo "Execute "
Dir #?.bat
But I want it in the same line thanks

Last edited by BooBoo on 01-Dec-2010 at 12:10 AM.
Last edited by BooBoo on 01-Dec-2010 at 12:08 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OldFart 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 10:02:24
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 2916
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@Chris_Y

Quote:
Quote:

"L:" actually stood for "Library"


That mystery solved at last!

Thank goats I was not the only one.

Sounds a it like that title of Woody Allen's fim: "All you wanted to know about sex, but were afraid to ask"

Oldfart

_________________
The younger and less experienced a coder is, the more difficult it is to prove him wrong...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Ball000 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 11:08:31
#15 ]
Member
Joined: 27-Oct-2006
Posts: 29
From: Daoulas, Bretagne, France

@BooBoo

Quote:

BooBoo wrote:
While talking about shell commands anyone know if something like this is Possible

Echo "Execute " + #?.bat

eg output if file Start.bat exists "Execute Start.bat" in the same line
I could do Echo "Execute "
Dir #?.bat
But I want it in the same line thanks


Not sure to understand really, but I think what you want could be:

List #?.bat LFORMAT="Execute %N"

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
BooBoo 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 12:13:05
#16 ]
Member
Joined: 13-May-2007
Posts: 45
From: Unknown

@Ball000

Yes! Dude thats it
Thanks for the Reply
Id just figured
Dir #?.Bat >Xfile
Echo Execute $Xfile
But I prefer your all in one command

Also one last thing any way I can list the dicectory Im in?

eg
Im in Ram:
I want to echo Path >Path.txt
Path.txt = Ram:

Or Output the Path of an Assign
eg Output Path ENV:

EDIT:Forget that Dur - Of Course it Just
CD >Path

Last edited by BooBoo on 01-Dec-2010 at 07:56 PM.
Last edited by BooBoo on 01-Dec-2010 at 07:55 PM.
Last edited by BooBoo on 01-Dec-2010 at 12:17 PM.
Last edited by BooBoo on 01-Dec-2010 at 12:13 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 13:41:48
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8727
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Chris_Y

Quote:
That mystery solved at last!


Yes! Last time I asked I was told the "L" stood for Linkers.

But now what is the LIBS: assign for then in the AmigaDOS file hierarchy?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 13:49:37
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8727
From: Greensborough, Australia

@olsen

Quote:
Now the question is, why did the option processing code have to check each letter? I haven't got the foggiest...


To me it looks obvious if iIt accepted multiple options specified after the OPT keyword. On OS4 it does but Hex and Numbers together only produce hex.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Chris_Y 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 18:51:16
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3102
From: Beds, UK

@Hypex

Quote:
But now what is the LIBS: assign for then in the AmigaDOS file hierarchy?


Libraries.

See Chris' note that "library" is the TripOS name for what AmigaDOS calls a "handler".

I wonder why they left it as L: and added Libs:, it might have been more sensible to rename it H:, or even move the entire contents to Devs: (a popular dumping ground for stuff since 3.0), given that handlers are device-related and L: is pretty much empty.

Hmm, whose bright idea was it to put CharSets info into a DOS handlers dir in OS4? Did they forget to type the rest of "Locale:"?

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ChrisH 
Re: Tripos PDF Manual - How Amiga-like is it?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 20:42:57
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@Ball000 Quote:
List #?.bat LFORMAT="Execute %N"

Or you could use one of AmigaOS's under-used scripts:

S:SPat Execute #?.bat

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle