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trans
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CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 11:04:21
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Joined: 19-Mar-2006 Posts: 81
From: Unknown | | |
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| I was just reading the History of the Amiga CD32. It's really quite remarkable. I think it serves as a perfect example of how modern "political" capitalism utterly fails us.
Commodore had this great product in the CD32, It could have easily have been the next "NES" or "Sega" of the day, but a Judge put an injunction on shipments to the US b/c of a debt Commodore owed. And b/c Commodore could not pay that debt, they went out of business and the CD32 was discontinued. Brilliant logic there. If the debt was ever to get paid Commodore had to ship product. Moreover, Commodore couldn't keep up with demand in Europe as it was. So then one has to ask, where were the investment firms to shore up Commodore's ship? It's just doesn't make much sense... a great product, excessive demand, an untapped market, and the result is bankruptcy? This is not how things should work.
Of course hindsight is 20/20 and looking back, just imagine where we might be toady if Amiga would have put out a "CD16" game console back in 1987!
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ErikBauer
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 11:25:59
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Super Member |
Joined: 25-Feb-2004 Posts: 1141
From: Italy | | |
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| @trans
CD/16 was called CDTV and was a complete commercial failure. _________________ God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music
Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)! |
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opi
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 11:29:32
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Joined: 2-Mar-2005 Posts: 2752
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| @trans
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they went out of business and the CD32 was discontinued |
CD32 could be "Atari Jaguar" of Commodore, but that's it. SNES was well established console, released four years earlier, CD32 had few remakes of games released before for standard Amiga, with tracks from CD. It had weak graphic chip that couldn't do 3D, it was a final spasm of Old Era. Original Playstation was just around the corner and even IF CD32 would be let into US, Sony would shred Commodore's console to pieces.
Face it, Amiga was done for when A600/A1200 where hitting the market. Castrated CPU, weak graphics, expensive extensions and models without HDD.
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if Amiga would have put out a "CD16" |
You mean CTDV? Sure, it was five years later, but you can't really say it was "a success". For what's worth Amiga was game console._________________ OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI! |
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cha05e90
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 11:34:50
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Joined: 18-Apr-2009 Posts: 1275
From: Germany | | |
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| @opi
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Face it, Amiga was done for when A600/A1200 where hitting the market. Castrated CPU, weak graphics, expensive extensions and models without HDD. |
Thank you - and I thought I were lonley thinking this way..._________________ X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000 |
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Arko
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 11:37:58
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Super Member |
Joined: 17-Jan-2007 Posts: 1989
From: Unknown | | |
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| @trans
Quote:
trans wrote:
... but a Judge put an injunction on shipments to the US
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It was sold in other countries with little success only.
@cha05e90
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cha05e90 wrote: @opi
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Face it, Amiga was done for when A600/A1200 where hitting the market. Castrated CPU, weak graphics, expensive extensions and models without HDD. |
Thank you - and I thought I were lonley thinking this way... |
No, you are not allone. AGA done the right way(chunky gfx) and two years sooner would have helped Amiga a lot.Last edited by Arko on 28-Jan-2011 at 11:40 AM. Last edited by Arko on 28-Jan-2011 at 11:38 AM.
_________________ AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.
I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28): http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0 |
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trans
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 12:00:07
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Joined: 19-Mar-2006 Posts: 81
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| @opi
"Weak Graphics"? Err. dude you obviously were around then. |
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trans
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 12:04:13
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Joined: 19-Mar-2006 Posts: 81
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| @ErikBauer
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CD/16 was called CDTV and was a complete commercial failure. |
Nah. The CDTV was much later then the A1000 and overpriced for what it really was. They tried to bill it as if it were a high-end stereo component or something. Very bad marketing. I think that realized that and that's why they did the CD32, but of course it was too late at that point.
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pavlor
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 12:10:40
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9598
From: Unknown | | |
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| @trans
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Lower resolutions than common SVGA cards AGA: 640x480 8bit, no chunky SVGA: up to 1024x768 8bit (limited by the avaiable GFX memory, only 800x600 4bit with 256 kB)
640x480 in 256 colours (or HAM8) on AGA is a slower than same resolution on SVGA.
AGA was still nice GFX for low-end models (A1200) - comparable with 256 kB SVGA cards of that time (1992). |
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Rudei
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 12:28:03
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Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Nov-2002 Posts: 3589
From: Dallas, Texas | | |
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| @opi
So which Amiga did you like Opi?
Rude!
EDIT and before you bite my head off, it's a perfectly valid question, if you didn't like the A1200/A600/CD32 (and you certainly don't like any of the next-gen 'Amiga' systems) then that leaves the Classic Big Boxes and perhaps the A500/A1000.
I personally think the A1200 was the greatest Amiga that was released from an expandability point of view; I believed it could have done with at least an 030 and maybe a DSP.
Last edited by Rudei on 28-Jan-2011 at 12:31 PM.
_________________ 2017 Camaro 2SS |
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pavlor
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 12:37:30
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9598
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Rudei
With chunky GFX and faster 8bit VGA resolutions A1200 could have been ideal computer. |
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opi
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 12:40:09
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Joined: 2-Mar-2005 Posts: 2752
From: Poland | | |
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| @Rudei
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So which Amiga did you like Opi? |
A1200 and A600! No, really. I also like my soccer team. They sucks, but I like them.
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certainly don't like any of the next-gen 'Amiga' systems |
I liked Pegasos and half-liked Efika. Couldn't judge Sam as I couldn't get it to run. I think I'll try Sam640 in few days.
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I personally think the A1200 was the greatest Amiga that was released from an expandability point of view |
And that speaks volumes about how bad Amiga was. Look at expanded A12k, it's Frankenstein of computing.
EDIT: My dream Amiga was A3000. I still want to buy one but I snap out of it seconds before clicking "Buy Now".Last edited by opi on 28-Jan-2011 at 12:44 PM.
_________________ OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI! |
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RodTerl
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 12:41:26
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Joined: 6-Sep-2004 Posts: 589
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| Umm.. so how much would the A1200 have cost in 1992 if it had shiped with 2 Meg of Fast RAM, and the Chipset running at double clock speed so that the AGA Maximum Overscan of 1440*588*Ham8 would have more bandwidth left for CPU access?
How much more compatible, extendible would Amiga have been, instead of going just for the Pixel Clock, 7 Mhz, it had been built with Colour Clock, 2* 4.43 Mhz and multiples? You would still be looing at the 7/8 rate for screen image pixels, but you would then have the gurenteed 1/8 clocks for CPU access.
Due to verticle flyback of 21 lines and overscan .. PAL 640*480*50 field Interleave Equals, within percentages, of 800*600*30 frames SVGA.
I designed a real time video digitiser in teh 90s that used a 17.76 Mhz sample rate to flash convert analog data to digital for further processing, all the screen modes at that time have less than 10% variation between them, Thats why AGA has a VGA option.
Its just that TVs were £250, and Monitors were £750. So why would you pay for a machine that could only use a display at Three times the price of your 26 inch TV.. And you Cant watch Coronation Street on it either?
_________________ The older and more respected a scientist is, the longer it takes to prove him wrong. |
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nimrod7
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 12:59:55
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Joined: 4-Jan-2010 Posts: 285
From: Poland | | |
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| @opi Quote:
Face it, Amiga was done for when A600/A1200 where hitting the market. Castrated CPU, weak graphics, expensive extensions and models without HDD |
agree completely. 1992 - and it was all over, i mean - look at the games out there in 1992, compare them to what was a "top notch" in Amiga land. what about AAA? Haynie words: "It would have been (...) pretty cool in 1992, ok in 1994 (the earliest it could have been released on the schedule we had, with a healthy Commodore)". A600/A1200/A4000 = the three beloved nails in the coffin of Commodore._________________ "Marxism must abhor nothing so much as the possibility that it becomes congealed in its current form. It is at its best when butting heads in self-criticism, and in historical thunder and lightning, it retains its strength" - Rosa Luxemburg. |
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pavlor
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 13:10:07
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9598
From: Unknown | | |
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| @nimrod7
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and it was all over, i mean - look at the games out there in 1992 |
It was not so bad for Amiga in 1992. Sure, many games had 256 colours on PC, but most games still had better sound/music on Amiga.
Amiga versions of some games were even noticeably better than PC versions (eg. Abandoned Places). |
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opi
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 13:24:54
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Joined: 2-Mar-2005 Posts: 2752
From: Poland | | |
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| @pavlor
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Amiga versions of some games were even noticeably better than PC |
That's when we peaked. Since then it was constant downfall.Last edited by opi on 28-Jan-2011 at 01:28 PM.
_________________ OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI! |
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BobW
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 13:27:35
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Joined: 9-Apr-2004 Posts: 275
From: Central, NY USA | | |
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| @trans
I was in college when the A1200 came out. I had been using an A500 for years and was eagerly awaiting the release of AGA. The week the A1200 was available I bought one. Got it home. Hooked it up and said to myself WTF. I could not believe how under powered it was out of the box.
The A1200 to this day is still my favorite Amiga but it was the nail in the coffin for Commodore. Too little too late. It should have been released 2 or 3 years earlier. _________________ Micro A1 866 Mhz and AmigaOS 4.1 PowerMac G4 1.4 Ghz and MorphOS 2.7 |
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pavlor
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 13:30:56
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9598
From: Unknown | | |
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| @opi
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That's when we peaked. Since then it was constant downfall. |
Yes. There were some brighter moments, but basicaly you are right. |
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Arko
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 13:40:06
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Super Member |
Joined: 17-Jan-2007 Posts: 1989
From: Unknown | | |
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| @RodTerl
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Umm.. so how … A1200 have cost in 1992 if .. 2 Meg of Fast RAM … Chipset running at double clock … AGA Maximum Overscan of 1440*588*Ham8 …
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HAM8 ? Nearly worthless, only usable for low speed picture viewers, it would not have supported the A1200 game capabilities.
If you think about AGA GFX should have been, think about PAL/NTSC resolution with 8bit chunky GFX for fast games and maybe some fast ram (2mb) that frees the CPU from the Chip RAM brake.
High resolution, flicker free would have been necessary for the desktop models.
@BobW
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… when the A1200 came out. I had been using an A500 for years and was eagerly awaiting the release of AGA. The week the A1200 was available I bought one … I could not believe how under powered it was out of the box.
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I had a well equipped A2000 there where no reasons for buying an A1200, I would have had to spend a lot of money to get it on the same performance state my A2000 had.
And at the other side the A1200 failed to attract new users to the Amiga.
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It should have been released 2 or 3 years earlier. |
Ack, AGA with chunky 8 bit mode, and 2 MB Fastram with 28MHz 68020 CPU 2 years later.
There was an A500 follower, cost reduced with HD support called A600 but it was not compatible enough because of the missing number block.
Last edited by Arko on 28-Jan-2011 at 01:50 PM. Last edited by Arko on 28-Jan-2011 at 01:49 PM.
_________________ AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.
I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28): http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0 |
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trans
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 16:39:09
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Joined: 19-Mar-2006 Posts: 81
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| @pavlor
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Lower resolutions than common SVGA cards AGA: 640x480 8bit, no chunky SVGA: up to 1024x768 8bit (limited by the avaiable GFX memory, only 800x600 4bit with 256 kB)
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"it wasn't until 1989 that Super VGA was defined by VESA. In that first version, it called for a resolution of 800 × 600 4-bit pixels. Each pixel could therefore be any of 16 different colours."
SVGA wasn't really affordable until the mid 90s. But I agree the A1200 wasn't the best course for Commodore. They could have done better. But at that point it was clear they had lost all foresight.
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Abu_the_monkey
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Re: CD32 - a case against modern capitalism Posted on 28-Jan-2011 17:29:01
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Joined: 25-Jan-2010 Posts: 70
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| @BobW
I agree that out of the box it was a bit of a lame horse, however that is only as the only options you had when you went to buy one was a plain 1200 with or w/out a hdd. there should have been more options from the retailers, like extra ram, with or w/out an fpu. I think the only high street store pushing these options in the UK was silica (where I got mine, with a 200mb hdd and 4mb of fast ram). That machine blew me away, I'd only had or used a 500 with 1mb chip ram before that, the difference between them was night and day... |
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