@amigang

mm, i forgot the term "demanding" is reserved for situations where someone is holding a loaded gun to your head, like in "hand over the cash, i demand!"

edit: lets substitute "demanding" with "proposing", fits better, ok?

Last edited by wawa on 23-Aug-2011 at 09:28 PM.

@wawa

Yes, the specific sites work out pretty well, but the common grounds does not. IE where people are able to chose for themselves there will be bickering...

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@wawa

Well, we may bet that beta testers are quite happy to be the first to test the board, do the ironing and keep it at at least half of the end price. Basically, they earned the difference plus did a global community service work and helped board exist by that investment. Why always seeing evil, all the beta testers knew what is ahead

Yes, beta testers can be paid, but then they don`t get either hardware or the software.

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

@Toaks

Quote:

her than that, this is the best thread you've done on here and while there is bickering from both you and various others i still think its quite calm and most here (including you) have valid points that should be addressed in one way or another, but, only when the time is right (amiwest?, etc).

Thanks Toaks

@Spectre660

Quote:

Indeed it is important not to over hype the X1000 in the early days but to bring back the wizardry and awe of the Amiga at shipping time.

Umm.. did you forget all the "where is X" hype like crazy over a year ago?

@Spectre660

Quote:

Multiple core support (SMP)

Quote:

Graphics and Gallium3D - Enables access to full OpenGL implementations like Mesa - Compositing may be done via Gallium3D - Opens the door to replacing the entire graphics subsystem - multi-header support

I would have to say that to see either of these features one more year. There is no way these will be in x1000 launch imo. Takes way to much time to code with a small team. I'm sure all of their time atm is porting drivers and things for X1000. (look how long it took Aeon just for audio driver and they are fast with this stuff!)

@realize
Quote:

look how long it took Aeon just for audio driver and they are fast with this stuff!

What do you mean by this???

_________________
I'm an antique. Don't light my fuse

@vox
1&1 agree ;)

@realize

True.

Now the hardware is here we await the OS 4 version to do it justice.

Quote:

Umm.. did you forget all the "where is X" hype like crazy over a year ago?

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@realize

I think that you mean Acube for the Sam 460 audio driver.
This one was a tough one to do due to some missing hardware feature in the hybrid
graphics and audio chip .

I think that the X1000 drivers are up to to OS 4.1 update 2 or update 3 levels.


Quote:

(look how long it took Aeon just for audio driver and they are fast with this stuff!)

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Antique

Quote:

look how long it took Aeon just for audio driver and they are fast with this stuff! What do you mean by this???

I mean it takes a long time to port amiga drivers to alien hardware.

I mean for the 460 yes.

Last edited by realize on 23-Aug-2011 at 11:25 PM.

@realize

Minor error there, ACube != A-EON, but easy enough to do.

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@amigang

Quote:

people made their choice and where told of the costs and what they where signing up to.

Uh, no. They weren't told the cost. That's one of the more bizarre aspects of this whole story.

They were told "hand over 750 Euro now, and we will soon tell you how much more money you will have to send us before we send you a board".

Also, people were most certainly not told that this "soon" would in fact be a year later. I am the first to acknowledge that "delays happen"... but given how every single phase of the beta-test board delivery has gone over schedule by several hundred percent, it's hard not to wonder whether the originally supposed schedule was ever taken seriously by those proposing it. Especially given Ben Hermans' involvement, and his track record with OS4....

OS4 was promised in a few months, so "don't buy their stuff, our's will be ready quite soon, and be so much better!". Then delays happened. Then more delays happened. Then the AOne actually turned up "and OS4 will be ready real soon now, and be great! So go and buy your Early-bird AOne now, and we'll deliver the operating system in no time at all". IIRC, it took well over a year of people having to "enjoy" very, very expensive Linux machines (with questionable warranty/return rights, given the "earlybird" status) before even a "developer pre-release" got sent out. But of course, once they had spent their money, they weren't likely to stop waiting and move to alternatives where actual delivery was more in line with promises made.

@umisef

Nice to see you blame the current team with all the "problems" of the past, in such a balanced way.
I wonder why you have(n't) been missed.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@umisef

Quote:

They were told "hand over 750 Euro now, and we will soon tell you how much more money you will have to send us before we send you a board".

You paint it as if they were given no idea of the final cost.

"3.01 Payment of Advance. In order to ensure fair and efficient allocation of the Hardware, Betatester shall pay an advance of 750 (seven hundred and fifty) euro (hereafter: ?the Advance?) to A-EON?s Belgian bankaccount by wire transfer. Full wire transfer details are detailed in Annex I hereof. All wire transfer costs shall be born by Betatester (specify ?OUR? within the context of the wire transfer costs). The Advance shall be applied against the final cost of the Hardware (which includes memory) which is estimated at 1.150 GBP excluding any taxes (such as VAT) and shipment. Until such time as the Advance has been received together with a duly executed copy of the present Agreement, the performance of this Agreement is suspended.
"
http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/175784.shtml

@umisef

Thank you for one of the best posts in the thread. (oh and BTW whoever rerported me for "trolling" clearly doesnt know what that means)

Quote:

OS4 was promised in a few months, so "don't buy their stuff, our's will be ready quite soon, and be so much better!". Then delays happened. Then more delays happened. Then the AOne actually turned up "and OS4 will be ready real soon now, and be great! So go and buy your Early-bird AOne now, and we'll deliver the operating system in no time at all". IIRC, it took well over a year of people having to "enjoy" very, very expensive Linux machines (with questionable warranty/return rights, given the "earlybird" status) before even a "developer pre-release" got sent out. But of course, once they had spent their money, they weren't likely to stop waiting and move to alternatives where actual delivery was more in line with promises made.

Yeah, it was quite tragic. I had a Peg1 at that time running Morphos 1.3 , OSX, and Debian. A few of my pals in the NYC user groups were "early bird " guys and
bought Amiga XE for very high prices and we running just LInux (barely) while awaiting OS4. I remember when Hyperion used to issue press releases with feature lists and things like this. Also B. Hermans was a lot more vocal. What really happened here? It seems like that Ainc court battle just took the wind out of the sales.

The X1000 project was the most exciting thing in amigaland for a while. But now the momentum has died and as far as we can tell. No beta testers have even received their boards yet?? I mean a proper beta test will take at least 2 months and then back to QC for Hyperion, then code changes, then make it stable, then distribute. Seems like a while away for some reason to me..

@zerohero

Quote:

Minor error there, ACube != A-EON, but easy enough to do.

Right! Sorry about that.

@umisef

Quote:

Uh, no. They weren't told the cost. That's one of the more bizarre aspects of this whole story. They were told "hand over 750 Euro now, and we will soon tell you how much more money you will have to send us before we send you a board". Also, people were most certainly not told that this "soon" would in fact be a year later. I am the first to acknowledge that "delays happen"... but given how every single phase of the beta-test board delivery has gone over schedule by several hundred percent, it's hard not to wonder whether the originally supposed schedule was ever taken seriously by those proposing it. Especially given Ben Hermans' involvement, and his track record with OS4.... OS4 was promised in a few months, so "don't buy their stuff, our's will be ready quite soon, and be so much better!". Then delays happened. Then more delays happened. Then the AOne actually turned up "and OS4 will be ready real soon now, and be great! So go and buy your Early-bird AOne now, and we'll deliver the operating system in no time at all". IIRC, it took well over a year of people having to "enjoy" very, very expensive Linux machines (with questionable warranty/return rights, given the "earlybird" status) before even a "developer pre-release" got sent out. But of course, once they had spent their money, they weren't likely to stop waiting and move to alternatives where actual delivery was more in line with promises made.

Given that Hyperion is the only company that is advancing AmigaOS4, what other choice do we have, save tolerance? Just throw our hands up and walk away, because "they should be doing more, and faster"?

Last edited by jingof on 24-Aug-2011 at 08:43 AM.

_________________
Vic-20, C-64, C-128
Amiga 1000, 3000
AmigaOne X1000

@jingof

Quote:

Yeah, and given that Hyperion is the only company that is advancing AmigaOS4, what other choice do we have, save tolerance?

What to *do* about is everyone's own decision, obviously. And while I, personally, might shake my head at some people's choices, I'll do so privately.

On the other hand, in this thread, you have vox claiming that beta testers save "at least half" and amigang claiming that A-Eon was up-front about what exactly it meant to sign on as a beta tester.
Both of these are just simply, factually wrong (well, vox might yet be right --- it's not completely impossible that A-Eon would try and sell the consumer board at US$5000+). And there is a tendency for such claims to subsequently be treated as fact (and used in arguments against less hoodwinked members) unless they actually get challenged and corrected.

Last edited by umisef on 24-Aug-2011 at 09:25 AM.

@Rob

Quote:

You paint it as if they were given no idea of the final cost.

If the contract gives an estimate, that's not exactly definitive information, now is it? Especially if the same contract estimated time-to-delivery as 3 months, 11 months ago...

(Also, providing an estimate in a different currency from that of the country of the supplier, which was also used earlier in the paragraph to specify the deposit amount, is not really trying to communicate clearly. And while shipping, taxes and duties are of course location dependent, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a fair number of non-EU beta testers will do a double-take when customs calls and tells them how much they need to pay to actually get their board)