@djnick

I can understand your opinions/ views on what you consider as being "professional" but I think you've missed the point of what I was trying to say about the subject of themes/ wallpapers/ skins being called "professional"...

I simply would never apply the word "professional" to what is nothing more than some gfx/ colours that "decorate" any OS's Workbench/ Desktop...

At the end of the day how my workbench looks to me isn't the most important thing when it comes to using the Amiga, sure I like mine to be very plain, simple and what many would no doubt consider dull and boring but eye candy on my Workbench simply isn't important...

It's the utilities and programs I run on the Amiga that perform the tasks I want them to do that are the only real important thing, after all you don't switch on your Amiga (or any computer) just to stare at it's desktop and do nothing else with it... (well maybe some folk do)...

Even if how their Workbench/ Desktop looks is the most important thing to some folk on their computer or mobile devices or whatever they are using, it's still not the most important thing about actually using them (at least it shouldn't be)...

The programs/ applications/ utilities should be the most important thing and as long as the GUI of your Workbench/ Desktop is clean and easy to use and not cluttered with pointless and unnecessary eye candy to launch those programs and applications then that to me is all that really matters when it comes to your Workbench/ Desktop...

Either way, clean & simple or overflowing with eye candy there is nothing "professional" about any computers Workbench/ Desktop to me....

It's just an interface for launching the real tools of a computer and something that you really should only see for a tiny fraction of the time you're using a computer and not something that distracts you by either being too overly fussy and awkward to use or so graphically amazing that the skins/ themes/ wallpapers become more important than the actual programs themselves...

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

I don't see the need for ravelly, some get gifts and cash some don't thats life, things are not always fair.

It's not about money (Sinisrus does not even own a Paypal account as far as I know) but about work recognition.

As far as I can tell, since DjNick's got his free 460, we do not have seen many things (and we did not see anything requiring an AmigaOS 4 capable system or even created with AmigaOS 4.1).

I hope to be proven wrong but I think many other developpers around the world could have nedeed much more an AmigaOS 4 capable system than DjNick (it's my opinion and may not be other's)

For example, I've just lent my Sam440 (and kept my AmigaONE G4) to Crisot since he wants to test Odissey on both his A1-XE and on Sam440. And he really needs an AmigaOS 4 capable machine to do so.

Were the jingles and/or the forecoming themes created on Sam460 ? Was the AmigaOS 4.1 wallpaper created on AmigaOS 4.1 (Or did it even require it)?

Many coders/creators have bought their own system to develop for and they have created a sum of work really important (just to talk about French developpers I know, Corto, Huno, Glames, Crisot, AmiDark, Alex, CantaurZ, zzd10h, Sharynn, Sinisrus,... All bought their Amiga on their own and have produced a lot of good stuff but dit get nearly no mail nor message to thank them for their work).

So, sorry if I find that reading that Sinisrus' work is not professional enough irritates me (and some oher people) but for now no one has produced freely as many themes as him and no one has provided such a simple way to install and change them (scripts used for everything with an easy installer).

Now, prove me wrong

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PowerMac G5 2,7Ghz - 2GB - Radeon 9650 - MorphOS 3.14
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz

The only problem is djnick use "professional" as a word to describe how people should design a theme.
I think you should be more understanding for non native speakers. Especially when we try to explain a problem like that. IMO a theme is a kind of technical drawing and should follows the rules. Some of them are named in the thread (the gui elements should not distract the user from the actual content or how to choose the colors). One of the most important, the proportions. The other one is a consistant look. Sure, some people love chaotic and non cosistent design but majority subconciosly choose a design everything has the proper proportions. There are the rules how to draw a human body/face/hand...

https://www.google.pl/search?q=the+proportions+of+man&hl=pl&safe=off&client=tablet-android-asus&source=android-browser-suggest&v=210020311&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=tO5TUf6-EYKOtQaf-oCIBg&ved=0CE0QsAQ&biw=1088&bih=592

...the technical drawings have the rules and when you design an interface you should follow some of them as well. The rest is a matter of taste Some have a good one, others say there is no such think

@djnick

Quote:

w take a look at another theme set, but those looks [my opinion] more professional and have less color errors:

The collors are ok but there are a lot of other errors A non consistent look is one of them.

PS. Oh boy, me and my bad english have gone in such complicated discussion

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Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM R9250 128MB SB Live!

@djnick

i agree on what you wrote about that skin, but there is still some more if you wanted to improve.

for instance the gadgets do not need borders imho. this is border in border (of the window bar). just as icons do not need borders (introduced in 2.x and avoided), gadgets should define their border by their own outline, which can be used for the 3d active/inactive effect as well. this all especially because the gadget frames are slightly not inline with the left and right window border edges.

also as i already said, window borders are too thick, see the right lower area of the window where the arrow and the drag gadget is. it just looks like a sorry empty plate with some tiny signs of it. this is the same with all os4 themes ive seen, all afa themes, and probably most aros themes out there. i think the mistake is to use 24px wide frames instead of something like 16px wide which would have a little more style.

@wawa

Quote:

think the mistake is to use 24px wide frames instead of something like 16px wide which would have a little more style.

The standard AmigaOS4 window gadgets are 20px square and that defines the width of the standard winow borders. I agre 24px is atad big on a 1280x1024 screen but I think at 16px your struggling to get a decent gadget image.


As to professionalness thing, what make sinusirus' collection 'professional' is the slick one click installs one click removes installers.

The graphics are not to my taste but themes rarely are. They are functional though.


djnicks are 'unprofessional' because:

1. He was "contracted" to produce a product, he has not not produced it to time, not until people started making a fuss did he provide any reasons or appaerently ask questions about how to deliver
2. He was "paid" in advance, and has not delivered.
3. He happily critisizes other efforts as unprofessional, this is the mark of an amateur.

I wonder at the need for his "product" in the first place, the standard AmigaOS4 themes fit all the boxes when it comes to design and consistency, but given that agroup of people wanted it he should have prioritsed and communicated.

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BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@mr2

NO human being fits those rules. If you design a human based on them it will look like a robot. If you paint a portriat based on them it may look like a human, but it wont look like the subject.

But what have they got to do with theme design anyway? Theme designis a matter of fashion, not science. Designer may tell you otherwise, but that's because they need to justify their job.

User interface design in so far as where the gadgets are and how they work, what they do is something else again, but AmigaOS themes cannot really influence that, they are just eyecandy (or not depending on the designer)

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BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@broadblues

Quote:

NO human being fits those rules. If you design a human based on them it will look like a robot. If you paint a portriat based on them it may look like a human, but it wont look like the subject

Wow, Im shocked, a little bit
If you completaly reject those rules a human would look like a monster. From a longer distance all human bodies look simillar. Its detail that makes them look differently. Anyway, I was trying to say that there are the rules which make a human body drawing to look like a human but GUI design is closer to technical drawings where are certain rules for sure. All arrows should be the same size, all axis should have a text on the same side, all fonts (in one group) should be the same size, etc. Thats why technical drawings are easy to read for other persons, not only a creator.
And when all these basic rules are fullfiled we can talk about fashion, whats trendy, modern...and this is a different story...

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Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM R9250 128MB SB Live!

@mr2

Exactly :)

This is example of a very well designed human body:

https://www.google.com/search?q=kylie+minogue&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=HV9UUantJ6ff4QTpk4GgCA&biw=768&bih=900&sei=JF9UUYTzFYil4ASX5oGgA

:)

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nykk | deetronic.rs | youtube.com/djnykk | gfx.river | mamavolibebu.com

@broadblues

1. He was "contracted" to produce a product, he has not not produced it to time, not until people started making a fuss did he provide any reasons or appaerently ask questions about how to deliver
2. He was "paid" in advance, and has not delivered.
3. He happily critisizes other efforts as unprofessional, this is the mark of an amateur.

---

Actually I do not agree.

- I have done AmigaOs web site for free.
- I've done lots of wallpapers in past for free
- I asked for an Amiga machine so I can create perfect looking gui. On the other hand I didnt expect coding experience to do so.
- I got machine for free but I didnt expect to spend 420€ more to complete machine and I didnt expect over 6 months of pain to just make Amiga boot...

My simple question would be this:

- When I create a perfect looking theme that looks great on my Amiga. What steps exactly to do to EXPORT to all of you (share it) so everybody will have the same look if install it?

This is the critical part. I can create thoisanda great looking themes to me but nobody will have the same look when install it at his Amiga.

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nykk | deetronic.rs | youtube.com/djnykk | gfx.river | mamavolibebu.com

@djnick

Use Sinisrus' install uninstall scripts

I think he derived those from the script in some themes on os4depot

The coding knowledge need to build a theme is less than that need for a website (hyml I mean not php stuff)

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BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

There is no Need to code a single line.

Here is a little tutorial, but i don´t know if you like it it is from a site which ist not professional enough for you:

http://amitheme.amiga-ng.org/index_en.php?nom_du_menu=tuto_en#genefine_1

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www.amiboing.de - www.entwickler-x.de

@broadblues

Quote:

The standard AmigaOS4 window gadgets are 20px square and that defines the width of the standard winow borders. I agre 24px is atad big on a 1280x1024 screen but I think at 16px your struggling to get a decent gadget image.

if you want the gadget image to contain god and the world and beyond that the outline you will probably really need those 20px. in my theme i did for afa_os and used few years there ive reduced all the frames to 16 or probably rather 18px so far i remember. and it worked mostly fine afair, so i suppose a slick theme with thin window borders should be possible on os4 too.

if i had not so much stress atm id try to finish my aros theme as example. of course my approach may not satisfy others as it involved:
- to get rid of all unnecessary elements and graphics (like gadget borders i mentioned above) in order to make it well overseeable.
- to simplify the colors and keep high contrast in order to let it look well and render fast on all kind of displays, from full color to low color planar screens.
- to try to keep amiga graphics identity
and so on..

Last edited by wawa on 28-Mar-2013 at 05:20 PM.

@imagodespira

I know this tutorial - and I think it would be worth to put it into the AmigaOS Wiki somehow. Really nice and comprehensive.

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X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

Everybody wanting to work on interfaces should grab a good book about how to design them. Being eye candy is not enough, there is plenty of litterature on the subject try reading them first.
Kamelito

@kamelit0

Quote:

kamelit0 wrote: Everybody wanting to work on interfaces should grab a good book about how to design them. Being eye candy is not enough, there is plenty of litterature on the subject try reading them first. Kamelito

Yeah... but who's to say that literature on design is right... after all it's nothing more than whomever wrote it's opinions...

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@Franko

Ergonomy, focus test, experiences, studies might help define what is good with today technologies and to be more exact with what OS vendors give to us.
Didn't Read Jeff Raskin book but he wanted a paradigm shift in UI.
What I wanted to say is that there is rules to follow if you want a solid UI.

Kamelito

@kamelit0

I would not be suprised that Franko thinks what is written in a book doesnt nessecarily apply to him.
Thats fine.

But userfriendliness and design can be defined on a overall basis, so kamelit0's suggestion got merit.
Personally I dont mind tweaking a little bit, more so than my friends. But people like me are minority.
And my intrest in tweaking and researching is not even close to the level i get the impression Franko got.
Most wants plug and play, be it applestyle or Windows.

Im kinda baffled that we can spend 2 pages "fighting" over the definition of professionalism.

Last edited by Overflow on 29-Mar-2013 at 09:09 AM.

@broadblues

Ok, thanks. I have just downloaded Sinisrus' install uninstall script from his theme I have found in Amiga Look site and will try...

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nykk | deetronic.rs | youtube.com/djnykk | gfx.river | mamavolibebu.com

@NutsAboutAmiga :
It's not because things "are not always fair" that we may accept this statement.
It's up to everyone to point on a problem and help find a solution to fix it!
(instead of leaving the problems unresolved ;) )

K-L :
Just to complete :
Quote:

Many coders/creators have bought their own system to develop for and they have created a sum of work really important (just to talk about French developpers I know, Corto, Huno, Glames, Crisot, AmiDark, Alex, CantaurZ, zzd10h, Sharynn, Sinisrus,... All bought their Amiga on their own and have produced a lot of good stuff but dit get nearly no mail nor message to thank them for their work).

Even when they are limited on money!

Quote:

So, sorry if I find that reading that Sinisrus' work is not professional enough irritates me (and some oher people) but for now no one has produced freely as many themes as him and no one has provided such a simple way to install and change them (scripts used for everything with an easy installer).

And, in that's way, Sinisrus work is "as professional as" a true serious professional should do.

@mr2:
Quote:

(the gui elements should not distract the user from the actual content or how to choose the colors).

I don't agree with that kind of thinking. If everyone may think like this, all video games, films, TV series, etc. may have poor environment, poor details, because they must not distract the watcher (from the storyline, juste applying your concept) ... The beauty of graphics is one key element for everything that play with the emotionnal part of us! The only other important thing 'I think' is that the whole theme should respect a structured scheme concerning all graphics, fonts, etc. it contain. so graphics & structures are importants stuffs for a theme!

@Broadblues :
+1 concerning djnick & mr2.

@mr2 : I second Broadblues, maybe "you" think theme is that way, but you are more in a "mathematical" vision of theme (purely in the structure itself) than in a "graphic"/"Emotionnal" vision of a theme and if all theme get the same structure (because they must contain the same element) the only thing that change are GRAPHICS! and due to that, graphics are really important for theme.
Once again mr2 & djNick, you are in a pure "mathematical" scheme you only see 1 part of the scheme. You forget that all humans are differents! some are white, black, yellow, big, small, etc. and why ? Because the truth is that diversity is important! like Broadblues said, and I will complete, if you only take care of the "mathematical" vision of a theme, you lost an important part and you'll create an "army of clones" and all your themes will be the same ...

@djnick :
Quote:

- When I create a perfect looking theme that looks great on my Amiga. What steps exactly to do to EXPORT to all of you (share it) so everybody will have the same look if install it?

You should look Tron Legacy : "What is important in perfection, it's that it CANNOT be reach and, however, it's there in all things we have in the life!" you should meditate about this and see the theme in a *larger* vision...

Kindest Regards,
AmiDARK

Last edited by AmiDARK on 31-Mar-2013 at 08:13 PM.
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Last edited by AmiDARK on 30-Mar-2013 at 01:41 PM.
Last edited by AmiDARK on 30-Mar-2013 at 01:39 PM.

@djnick

Just checked out the new wallpapers.


Really liked the Abstract one with "Back 4 the future" text!