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TheAMIgaOne
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 28-Jul-2013 13:52:03
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Joined: 10-Jan-2004 Posts: 776
From: United Kingdom | | |
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| @whose
Since when has java been hard to maintain. Java is easier, safer and more logical to code. There is a tiny bit of performance loss when using bytecode.
Im a computer science grad who was taught Java at university, but as an Amigian I use C for all of my projects.
Where have you used Java that makes you think that? What languages do you use.
_________________ Cross-developer on Windows, OS3, OS4, Linux; Current Projects:- Nephele Cloud App OS4 UserProfile System OS4 AmigaOneXE OS4.1.6
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xeron
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 28-Jul-2013 14:47:36
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Elite Member |
Joined: 22-Jun-2003 Posts: 2440
From: Weston-Super-Mare, Somerset, England, UK, Europe, Earth, The Milky Way, The Universe | | |
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| @TheAMIgaOne
I like Java more than C++, but I use plain C in my job*, so that is what feels like "home".
* although somtimes some C++, assembler, or Python may be involved :)
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Jose
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 28-Jul-2013 17:04:43
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Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 992
From: Unknown | | |
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| If you get the GUI working fully you're a hero :)
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José |
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Yssing
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 28-Jul-2013 17:09:17
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Super Member |
Joined: 24-Apr-2003 Posts: 1084
From: Unknown | | |
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| Yes with a GUI it would be perfect. I really look forward to doing done java coding on the amiga
Last edited by Yssing on 02-Aug-2013 at 11:10 AM.
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 28-Jul-2013 17:19:32
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Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
From: CRO | | |
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| A BIG point for Java on Amiga-like OS would be that Java-based programs would get memory protection thru JavaVM - at least to other JAVA apps running.
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whose
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 28-Jul-2013 21:52:58
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Cult Member |
Joined: 21-Jun-2005 Posts: 893
From: Germany | | |
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| @TheAMIgaOne
Quote:
Since when has java been hard to maintain. Java is easier, safer and more logical to code. There is a tiny bit of performance loss when using bytecode. Im a computer science grad who was taught Java at university, but as an Amigian I use C for all of my projects. Where have you used Java that makes you think that? What languages do you use. |
I never said that Java (as a programming language) itself is hard to maintain. I said that it educates people to dice code that is hard to maintain. Here in Germany several big projects use Java as base "platform", and the code is near-to unmaintainable for even a dozen people working as a team.
I use C. |
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 28-Jul-2013 22:34:52
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Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
From: CRO | | |
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| @whose
C easier to maintain than JAVA? I don't think so... For starters, the syntax is very similar, but JAVA, being OO, is inherently "cleaner" in design. Abstraction is there to make code reusable and cleaner. I came from BASIC and C and than switched to JAVA/C#... I personally wouldn't want to go back. _________________
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TheAMIgaOne
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 28-Jul-2013 23:22:04
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Joined: 10-Jan-2004 Posts: 776
From: United Kingdom | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
Precisely, I guess the project is hard to maintain due to the original developers didnt design it well, as with any language the weakest link is normally the architect during the analysis stage. _________________ Cross-developer on Windows, OS3, OS4, Linux; Current Projects:- Nephele Cloud App OS4 UserProfile System OS4 AmigaOneXE OS4.1.6
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whose
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 29-Jul-2013 6:40:48
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Joined: 21-Jun-2005 Posts: 893
From: Germany | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
Please read carefully. I also never said that C code is easier to maintain. |
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jaokim
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 29-Jul-2013 8:28:23
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 278
From: Sweden | | |
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| @whose
Its not only Java that runs on the JVM!
If you think Java teaches, or condones bad programming practices, you could for instance look at Scala, which is said to ease parallell programming by supporting another way of thinking. Having a high level language that supports your ideas is really crucial to produce fast code -- using Scala can in many cases produce much faster code than Java, even though their run on the same JVM. If it produces easy to understand or logical code, I leave for someone else to decide.
With that said; a bad coder/architect will produce unmaintainable code regardless of language. A good developer should be able to make even brainfuck look good (ok, that might be stretching it, but you get my point). Last edited by jaokim on 29-Jul-2013 at 08:34 AM.
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whose
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 29-Jul-2013 12:21:17
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Joined: 21-Jun-2005 Posts: 893
From: Germany | | |
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| @jaokim
Hehe, I never said that I have any problems with having Java on the Amiga. Fear not Its just a dislike of Java and the code Java coders tend to make from it. I dont like C++, too. And I dont like several other habits of "modern" IT.
*sigh* I just pointed out that I dont like Java, but its great that you managed to make it happen on Amiga. (!)
I didnt think of derailing the thread to pros and cons of Java, C++, C, Brainfuck, Scheme (yuck!) and whatever programming language exists out there.
Oh, and its useless to try to convince me regarding Java or other OOP-centric languages. If I could avoid it, I will avoid it. Even now that it exists for Amiga (and is in a usable state. I tried it) |
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 29-Jul-2013 14:09:07
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Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
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| @whose
Quote:
ts just a dislike of Java and the code Java coders tend to make from it |
That was exactly my thoughts when I was first introduced to JAVA/OOP. Why the hell change from C when C works nicely. Why are there these annoying things called objects!? What's the point of inherenting or hiding code behind abstraction!? It didn't make much sense to a C programmer :) But, as you dwell deeper into JAVA and OO programming, it becomes a lot more natural and switching back to C makes you wonder how the hell I coded anthing in this. :D
If Joakim can make a nice, complete port of JAVA platform on AmigaOS, that would be a huge benefit for the system. There is a lot of JAVA programmers around. And Netbeans on AmigaOS would help development greatly.
P.S. I hope Hyperion notices and helps him out on this. This is the stuff they should be doing.Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 29-Jul-2013 at 02:10 PM. Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 29-Jul-2013 at 02:09 PM.
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 29-Jul-2013 14:51:52
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Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12825
From: Norway | | |
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| @WolfToTheMoon
Barp hate Java, almost every slow program I know is written in it.
Not so keen on the object orientated model my self, I find it hard to debug, and messy, most have been a bad day whit RubyOnRails, classes are just structs whit code in them, I can mimic that easy whit function pointers in C, I don't see the point. _________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
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WolfToTheMoon
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 29-Jul-2013 15:02:59
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Joined: 2-Sep-2010 Posts: 1351
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| @NutsAboutAmiga
The point is that JAVA code is safer, both to inside and outside influences. Properly written, it is easier to read and maintain. And has somewhat better portability. JAVA can enable memory protection thru software on MMUless CPUs, which is neat on embedded systems. In my experience, it also enables faster coding... It is a common opinion that JAVA is slower than "native" languages... In some cases, yes, in other, JAVA can be faster. JVMs are really well optimizes today I would argue that it would be very hard for an average programmer to produce significantly faster code on C vs JAVA. And then we arrive to the point of would you notice 5-10% faster execution on mutlicore 2GHz+ machines... _________________
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jaokim
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 29-Jul-2013 15:44:51
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Regular Member |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 278
From: Sweden | | |
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| @NutsAboutAmiga
If you like AmigaOS, you inherently also like object oriented design: http://enki2.tumblr.com/post/5189327938/amiga-exec.
One key factor that makes Java so nice is that it is highly productive. It is way faster than C when it comes to creating feature rich application. Instead of fiddling with pointers and setting up compilers, you can just write your code and get something productive really quick. Yes, sure, there exists various frameworks for C/C++ to handle lists, sorting, XML and stuff -- but you have to make an initial choice of what to use. In Java you kind of have only one choice that you start with, f.i. the List interface. If the chosen implementation is too slow, you simply change it. I'm assuming this is true for C#/.Net as well.
Now, I'm not trying to convince anyone to love Java, and I'm not offended if anyone doesn't like it. It certainly isn't a silver bullet. But it can't really be categorically dismissed, simply because it in the 90's was terribly slow. _________________
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whose
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 30-Jul-2013 9:58:54
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Cult Member |
Joined: 21-Jun-2005 Posts: 893
From: Germany | | |
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| @jaokim
I dont think that NutsAboutAmiga meant the execution speed of Java in the 90´s
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salass00
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 30-Jul-2013 16:41:06
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Elite Member |
Joined: 31-Oct-2003 Posts: 2707
From: Finland | | |
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| @jaokim
I tried compiling a small "hello world" program with jikes: jamiga:jikes helloworld.java
But it keeps asking for a GG: assign.
From Snoopy: 00237 : jikes : FAIL = Open("GG:share/icu/1.3.1/convrtrs.txt",OLD) = [0x00000000] [945698uS] |
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Raffaele
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 30-Jul-2013 17:09:03
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Super Member |
Joined: 7-Dec-2005 Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy | | |
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| @ALL
Do you remember italian titler X-Titler from ClassX?
I read somewhere that a certain number of their software are Java based!
(MoreFX program if I remember well!)
Give us a decent GUI and we could persuade them to make again some Amiga portings...
http://www.classx.it/it/profilo-della-ditta.html
http://www.classx.it/en/
Last edited by Raffaele on 30-Jul-2013 at 05:18 PM. Last edited by Raffaele on 30-Jul-2013 at 05:10 PM.
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 30-Jul-2013 17:28:05
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12825
From: Norway | | |
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: JAmiga beta-release Posted on 30-Jul-2013 17:29:01
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12825
From: Norway | | |
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