I can not remember where i saw something like the Amiga was the real successor of the Atari 8bit and not the Atari ST.

The thing was when Amiga Corporation - Jay Miner as the Leader, need money for the project and Commodore bought Amiga Corporation, the Amiga had the "Commodore" Last name, but in the Jay Miner mind was something like the Atari 800 successor designed by Jay.

Anyone hear something more about this, or could be just a urban myth?.

So if this is true, then the Atari ST is not the Atari 8Bit successor, and the Amiga is not the C=64 successor.

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Amiga 1000, 500, 600, 2000, 1200, 4000...

C= VIC 20 / 64 / SX64/ 128

Atari 600XL (SIC Cartdridge)
Atari 800XL (SIO2SD Unit)

Jay Miner`s Atari 2600 - Wood front -

"Amiga, this Computer have a Own Live"

@Drummerboy

Jay designed the chips for the Atari VCS and later the Lorraine. While the Atari was a game machine, the Lorraine/Zorro/Amiga was designed as a real computer that could, in Jay's words, "...be the best flight emulator ever seen." To say one machine was a successor to another because the chip designer was a developer on both, is a bit far fetched. You leave out the scores of others who brought their expertise to that table. It was an independent project that needed funding (Boca Raton dentists/venture capitalists only got it so far) to progress and was almost sold to Atari, but could have been funded by others; Commodore brought MOS technologies to the mix which could produce the needed chips. Remember this was a time where every company from Mattel to Coleco were producing computers/game machines and no one knew where the "home market" would go. IBM had the business (mostly word processing and spreadsheet) market; Apple had the laboratory and a good bite in the home market (but internal factors were stifling it). This, though is old rhetoric and not worth IMHO worth discussing; it brings up the backstabbing at Commodore and Apple and bad feelings all around.

Last edited by cymru on 16-Mar-2014 at 04:12 AM.

@cymru

Quote:

Jay designed the chips for the Atari VCS and later the Lorraine.

Any reason why you left out the AtariXL/XE ? Cos those really are like an Amiga_0.5...

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- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos
I guess I left it out because this is "Amigaworld.net" and not "Atariworld.net." Reasons remain the same, the chip designer does not define the entire machine especially one as sophisticated as the Amiga; Mitchie the dog, maybe or Joe Pillow.
Quote:

Kronos wrote: @cymru Quote: Jay designed the chips for the Atari VCS and later the Lorraine. Any reason why you left out the AtariXL/XE ? Cos those really are like an Amiga_0.5...

@cymru

Quote:

I guess I left it out because this is "Amigaworld.net" and not "Atariworld.net."

I see you are a very new user, don't worry men, if you say "Atari", is not problem here in this forum, in fact the Topic talk about those "Brands", Amiga, Atari, Commodore.

You know about the "Amiga Computer" concept always was in the Jay Miner head. Few years later, when the A2000 was released, the same Jay said something like the A2000 was the Computer he wanted create, but becouse budget reasons he can´t do with the Amiga 1000.
He is called "father of the Amiga".

Even when the A4000 appears, he disagreed on several things that could be improved for that model like came such as came with 8bit audio and not 16bit audio.

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Amiga 1000, 500, 600, 2000, 1200, 4000...

C= VIC 20 / 64 / SX64/ 128

Atari 600XL (SIC Cartdridge)
Atari 800XL (SIO2SD Unit)

Jay Miner`s Atari 2600 - Wood front -

"Amiga, this Computer have a Own Live"

@Drummerboy

Well that is not what Jay said at the AmiExpo I attended in Chicago at the release of the A2000, but I believe you.

Last edited by cymru on 17-Mar-2014 at 02:53 PM.

@Drummerboy

I think this is a fair point to make for had Jay Miner stayed with Atari the ST or what ever it would have been named would have probably been more Amiga like with Jay designing its chip set.

An interesting twist in this tail could be is the Atari ST the successor to the Commodore 64 as the man behind both was Jack Tramiel (though not as a chip designer).

@Arnie

Quote:

Arnie wrote: An interesting twist in this tail could be is the Atari ST the successor to the Commodore 64 as the man behind both was Jack Tramiel (though not as a chip designer).

Some designers that had done the C64 at C= under Tramiel went with him to Atari, the usage for round DIN connectors for the monitor is a typical oddity you will see on both computers.

Quote:

Arnie wrote: I think this is a fair point to make for had Jay Miner stayed with Atari the ST or what ever it would have been named would have probably been more Amiga like with Jay designing its chip set.

Atari wen through a deep crisis after the first collapse of the game console industry, Amiga was lucky to be bought by Commodore so the investors got all the money back they spent into the design of a new game console with experienced designers from Atari.

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

One of the designers of the C64 and the ATARI ST is Shiraz Shivji
.

@Tom01

Quote:

One of the designers of the C64 and the ATARI ST is Shiraz Shivji

Interesting fact!.

I never had any Atari ST, but if someone see some similar parts, then for thinking exist the relation with the designers influence.

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Amiga 1000, 500, 600, 2000, 1200, 4000...

C= VIC 20 / 64 / SX64/ 128

Atari 600XL (SIC Cartdridge)
Atari 800XL (SIO2SD Unit)

Jay Miner`s Atari 2600 - Wood front -

"Amiga, this Computer have a Own Live"

There actually exists the contract that was to be drawn up between Amiga and Atari

http://www.atarimuseum.com/articles/mickey.html

The Amiga would have been called the Atari 1850XLD, codenamed "Mickey" and would have probably looked like this:

http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/8BITS/XL/1600xl/1600xl.html

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/1850xld.html

The A1000 ended up looking a lot nicer!

Last edited by danwood on 18-Mar-2014 at 12:36 PM.
Last edited by danwood on 18-Mar-2014 at 12:35 PM.
Last edited by danwood on 18-Mar-2014 at 12:35 PM.

@danwood

Yeah!, great info. I forgot, but a saw all this early 2000's. I knew I saw something about this.

Thanks, mystery solved!

_________________
Amiga 1000, 500, 600, 2000, 1200, 4000...

C= VIC 20 / 64 / SX64/ 128

Atari 600XL (SIC Cartdridge)
Atari 800XL (SIO2SD Unit)

Jay Miner`s Atari 2600 - Wood front -

"Amiga, this Computer have a Own Live"

@Drummerboy

Quote:

Amiga is not the C=64 successor.

The Amiga was never really the C64 successor, or rather, the C128 successor. Sure, Commodore produced the Amiga after they gave uo on the 8-bitters. But the Amiga wasn't a real Commodore machine.

For one thing, despite beimg beige, it broke compatibility again with the C64. Not that the C64 should have been the be all and end all of Commoodre computers, but when Commodore did anything different like the Plus/4 there was an uproar. People are rigid and don't like change or anything of a different variety. So I'm sure it took a while for Commoodre people to adopt. Infact, I doin't recall any adaptors or early emulators to import Commodore files and work with them. So perhaps there was an uprising against Commmodore that I missed.


My commments aside, the Amiga had more in common with an IBM PC, than with a Commodore. Case in point, when I shifted my setup to the Amiga 500, I had to put my Commodre MPS1250 in IBM mode. It didn't have a Commodore charcacter set.

Against that, the Amiga had a big endian CPU, all Commodores AFAIK used a little endian CPU. The Amiga was 16-bit. Used bitmaps. And sound sample. The Commodores were 8-bit, used a character matrix even with a bitmap and a sound synth with predefined waveforms. Worlds apart.

So I don't consider the Amiga to be a true successor of the Commodore line. It succeeded in taking its place, but that's all, I think. The Amiga gave them an opportunity to immediately break into the 16-bit line. I do wonder what the next Commodore would have looked like had they designed the next 16-bit machine. That is if they didn't just give up like with the Colt and convert to PCs.