@ppcamiga1

Your idea if rationality is broken. Badly.

What's rational, at all, about running on rare and expensive multicore 64-bit PPC? You are happy to engage in that insanity but not to run an equally incapable OS on much less expensive kit.

Real rational, like.

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@agami

Lament not :)

2023 was a still a decent year for MorphOS.

Between 1/1/23 and 12/31/23 we had:
1. Wayfarer updates to latest core and increased performance.
2. Iris added V-Card as well as other improvements.
3. PolyOgra grew in capability, curb appeal, and killed bugs.
4. Pagestream had a major update, making it very usable.
5. 3.19 continued development.

You even got part of your wish for calendar sharing and PolyOrga.

So look at the bright side agami!

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @Hammer The problem with 68080 FPU is that it causes rounding errors with legacy Amiga software, so 1.5 * 3 may end not being the same as 15*3/10, etc. Not a problem with Quake (which wasn’t a legacy Amiga game to begin with), but damn annoying whith just about anything else.

It's problematic with Shapeshifter and MacOS 8.1's scrollbars.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Hammer Quote: AmigaOS 4.1's 68K emulator is only userland 68K while MMU functions are provided by PowerPC's MMU. There is no kernel land, or user land concept, 68K can be executed in forbid state, true you can’t bang hardware, if its not emulated.

Are you claiming the classic AmigaOS 4.1 FE's 68K emulator environment is the same as Emu68's environment?

There is a defacto userland and supervisor concept when the Classic AmigaOS 4.1 FE's 68K emulator only runs OS-friendly Amiga apps while Emu68 runs WHDLoad games.

On my A500-PiStorm-Emu68, enable slow-mo configuration, and reboot, I can run my old kick-the-OS Mortal Kombat 2 disks. A500-PiStorm-Emu68 feels like my old Amiga 3000 (68030/68882 @ 25Mhz, AmigaOS 3.1) but with a super fast 68K CPU and P96 RTG add-on.

Classic AmigaOS 4.1 FE's 68K emulator couldn't run Shapeshifter (not enough memory error, then guru) and Fusion (couldn't see Fast RAM). LOL Both couldn't see Fast RAM.

For Shapeshifter, setting with 8 MB Chip RAM and display on the window, it resulted in MacRom error and grim reaper.

I have both SAM460's AmigaOS 4.1 FE (via Qemu 8.2 on Zen 4 platform) and classic Amiga PPC (via WinUAE 5 on Zen 4 platform)'s AmigaOS 4.1 FE.

I attempted to run WHDLoad games on classic AmigaOS 4.1 FE (without UAE) and it doesn't work. The classic Amiga chipset is nearly useless on classic AmigaOS 4.1 FE.

Before I sold my Amiga 3000 in 1996, I ran Shapeshifter, Deluxe Music 2, and Amiga 500 games (with on-demand hard disk loaded Kickstart 1.3 ROM image and disabled CPU cache).



Quote:

NallePuh that can emulate some hardware need multitasking, as it’s a program, but even NallePuh can run MMU exceptions in Forbid state, its technically possible, but not practical possible, how do you estimate time without using Amiga library, bang the AmigaONE hardware bios clock?? Well perhaps.

NallePuh wouldn't survive WHDLoad. NallePuh is an OS-friendly Amiga app only with certain limitations.

From https://aminet.net/package/driver/audio/NallePUH
NallePuh wouldn't work with Delitracker 2.32, Newtracker and PlaySID. Protracker disables multitasking which disables AHI.

Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jan-2024 at 08:04 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jan-2024 at 07:45 AM.
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Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jan-2024 at 05:20 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

Quote:

Are you claiming the classic AmigaOS 4.1 FE's 68K emulator environment is the same as Emu68's environment?

No, Emu68 is not in the OS layer, it works more like hypervisor below AmigaOS.

Quote:

Classic AmigaOS 4.1 FE's 68K emulator couldn't run Shapeshifter (not enough memory error, then guru) and Fusion (couldn't see Fast RAM). LOL Both couldn't see Fast RAM.

Shapeshifter patches AmigaOS3.x and MacOS ROM’s so the memory address do not conflict.
the MacOS rom is normally loaded into end from Memory, while Kickstart rom is start of memory, happy accident.

PrepareEMU hack/patch was necessary in startup-sequence, to allow Shapeshifter to work, Fution works in the same way and also needs a similar patch..

I think it can be possible to design a PowerPC OS so it can work with ShapeShifter, perhaps it was as important as improving the memory management model.
Quote:

I attempted to run WHDLoad games on classic AmigaOS 4.1 FE (without UAE) and it doesn't work. The classic Amiga chipset is nearly useless on classic AmigaOS 4.1 FE.

I think if for BlizzardPPC / CyberStromPPC it can be possible create a WHDLoad version that can work, but version of WHDLoad for AmigaOS4.1 Classic, it need to know how the new internal memory management works, so it can safely pack the OS away, like it’s being done with AmigaOS3.x..

That won’t be possible with Sam460 or AmigaONE hardware. At list for WHDLoad you need complete virtualization. Perhaps MacOS8 or MacOS9 can run like Shapeshifter does it, but I think need a good understand of how they two operating system works, to also the operating systems to coexist.

Quote:

Before I sold my Amiga 3000 in 1996, I ran Shapeshifter, Deluxe Music 2, and Amiga 500 games (with on-demand hard disk loaded Kickstart 1.3 ROM image and disabled CPU cache).

Basilisk II is just as good as ShapeShifter, and in EUAE you run all the classic software, that’s the best solution for things like that, unless you have the source code for “Deluxe Music 2”.

Quote:

NallePuh wouldn't survive WHDLoad. NallePuh is an OS-friendly Amiga app only with certain limitations.

Well you are telling me things I know…. But perhaps NallePuh functionality can be built into a WHDLoad like solution, but again you need sound, no audio drivers no sound… It simply wont make sense.

Quote:

From https://aminet.net/package/driver/audio/NallePUH NallePuh wouldn't work with Delitracker 2.32, Newtracker and PlaySID. Protracker disables multitasking which disables AHI.

You most use the OS4Depot version:
http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=audio/misc/nallepuh.lha

I do not know why these programs do not work, I have asked for code snipes of code that’s is not working, so I can perhaps find a solution, but I have not received any, examples of code that’s not working. So there is nothing I can do, I think it’s highly likely some tools are using undocumented features or doing something nasty as well. I think Hypex talked about a few issues.

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Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Jan-2024 at 06:44 PM.

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@Hammer

I have now investigated using RTC clock, its actually just one PPC instruction.
“mftb”, it returns PowerPC ticks, so extremely precise, I’m not sure how many ticks there are for different CPU models, and clock frequency’s. But I could measure normal delay, to find it.

the tricky part is however if it’s handled in the exception handler, is that if there is no exception there won’t be a CIA timer interrupt. That won’t be reliable. But if its in addition to current way to update timer, it can solve some corner cases.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Pretty sure that's what the ReadEClock on OS4 uses. On the 60x, it increments something like once every 4 bus clocks but I don't know if that's true for every PPC.

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@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @Hammer you wrote usual crap as usually. as usually pure bullshit about hardware that you don't own. I own sam460 and rpi3. My Sam460 is 5 times faster than emu68 on my rpi3. I run quake in 320x240 8 bit. emu68 makes 62 fps. sam460 makes 321 fps.

By personally attacking me, you got my attention.

Last edited by Hammer on 18-Jan-2024 at 03:43 PM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer
Quote:

I own sam460 and rpi3.

He never reveals that he actually owns a Pistorm. I believe ppcamiga1 might well be the only person in the world who has Quake running on a standalone Raspberry Pi 3 using emu68.

I guess we don't give him enough credit, him alone had ported AmigaOS and removed its chipset dependencies, so that it could run on its own RPI.

Essentially he made Draco 2.0.

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@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote: He never reveals that he actually owns a Pistorm.

The guy is full of crap. My remote diagnosis establishes a borderline personality disorder and a pathological liar. The liar part is a common expression of this type of personality disorder.

At this point, I'd say a maximum of 20% of what he claims is truth. The rest is embellished. Though of course he can't tell the difference.
I'm convinced that the X1000 he owned once upon a time, has been sold. Beyond maybe a Mac mini running MorphOS, I think he no longer has any PPC machine running AmigaOS 4.

He clearly has a Windows PC, not the latest hardware but semi-modern, running WinUAE, and this setup is likely the main source of his discontent.
The RPi 3 was likely purchased to run Amiberry or some other RetroArch type system, several years ago.

Every other hardware-based claim, is just a manifestation of an over-active imagination, and the need to support the "PPC warrior" persona.

_________________
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@agami

Too complicated. Occam's Razor tells me he's trolling for the lulz especially given the lack of effort versus response ratio.

He doesn't own any amiga or NG hardware, if he ever did at all
He's never written any code.
He probably puts text through a few rounds of (pre language model) translation software to give it that unique, retarded edge then puts a few intentional spelling mistakes in it.

Occasionally he forgets which is why sometimes the thread titles seem relatively readable and free of spelling mistakes despite using words longer than two syllables.

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@Karlos

There's no reason that he couldn't be both.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

I think if for BlizzardPPC / CyberStromPPC it can be possible create a WHDLoad version that can work, but version of WHDLoad for AmigaOS4.1 Classic, it need to know how the new internal memory management works, so it can safely pack the OS away, like it’s being done with AmigaOS3.x..

Packing AmigaOS 4.1 away would also pack the 68K emulator.

AmigaOS 4.1's 68K emulator wasn't designed with a virtual machine in mind i.e. VM with emulated 68K CPU and classic Amiga chipset pass-through access.

Emu68 benefited from 64-bit ARMv8 CPU where the Emu68 process is outside the 32-bit 68K address range. Emu68 is a very thin hypervisor.

Emu68's Amiga RGB capture to HDMI feature continues to operate with WHDLoad games.

SAM460, AmigaOne SE/XE, and Classic Amiga's PPC have a 32-bit PowerPC memory model which influenced AmigaOS 4.1 FE design.

Last edited by Hammer on 20-Jan-2024 at 03:45 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @Hammer The problem with 68080 FPU is that it causes rounding errors with legacy Amiga software, so 1.5 * 3 may end not being the same as 15*3/10, etc. Not a problem with Quake (which wasn’t a legacy Amiga game to begin with), but damn annoying whith just about anything else.

68080 V4 FPU supports 64-bit floating point double precision.

68080 V2 FPU has a 52-bit floating point precision a.k.a. Quake FPU enabler.

32-bit PowerPC 7448 FPU supports 64-bit double precision floating point.

Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jan-2024 at 02:58 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

You most use the OS4Depot version: http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=audio/misc/nallepuh.lha I do not know why these programs do not work, I have asked for code snipes of code that’s is not working, so I can perhaps find a solution, but I have not received any, examples of code that’s not working. So there is nothing I can do, I think it’s highly likely some tools are using undocumented features or doing something nasty as well. I think Hypex talked about a few issues.

OS4's Nallepuh doesn't work on classic Amiga with PPC.

Last edited by Hammer on 20-Jan-2024 at 04:48 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

That’s true, but in that case its only useful, if you don’t like Paula, you don’t really need it.

It is open source, so if anyone like try getting it work on AmigaOS4.1 Classic, they can do it.
of course you will need to disable CIAA/CIAB emulation some of hsync / vsync stuff.

Personally, I think time is better spent on writing software that supports AHI.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Jan-2024 at 09:32 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Jan-2024 at 09:31 AM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Hammer That’s true, but in that case its only useful, if you don’t like Paula, you don’t really need it. It is open source, so if anyone like try getting it work on AmigaOS4.1 Classic, they can do it. of course you will need to disable CIAA/CIAB emulation some of hsync / vsync stuff. Personally, I think time is better spent on writing software that supports AHI.

I'm not in favor of yet another "Amithlon" or Draco or Apple-influenced AmigaOS PPC approach.

More than 10,000 AC68080 plus Emu68-based classic Amiga units have KO'ed Apple-influenced AmigaOS PPC approach.

Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jan-2024 at 02:56 AM.

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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

That’s a silly thing to say, AmigaONE was releases in 2005, Pegasus in 2004/2003 or something, they are now 19 years old technology, and 20/21 if you’re talking about MorphOS.

talking about a 20 year old system as yet another "Amithlon" or Draco or Apple-influenced. Sound so wrong to me, and also “Amithlon” is modified UAE, not a native OS, does not count as continuation, it’s just another hack.

Quote:

More than 10,000 AC68080 plus Emu68-based classic Amiga units have KO'ed Apple-influenced AmigaOS PPC approach.

That is embarrassing what software come out of the AC68080 or Emu68K? I really do not get why people buy these things, why on earth do people want it, if all want to do play game that need a 68000 CPU at 7Mhz, so you can run it on WHDLoad. People doing that for years in WinUAE. It cost less, and is a lot more convenient.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Jan-2024 at 07:19 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

You don't get the same experience on WinUAE, at least I don't.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

That is embarrassing what software come out of the AC68080 or Emu68K? I really do not get why people buy these things, why on earth do people want it,

Why did anyone ever buy a memory expansion? Why did anyone ever buy an accelerator card? Why did anyone ever upgrade to RTG? Why does OS3.x continue to be developed?

Has it not occurred to you that Amiga fans want to use creative/productive titles in ways that were impractical or even impossible before? Or to run games that required hardware that was out of reach for them in the past? Or run software that could exist but was totally impractical then? That they want to do these things with their Amiga/clone and not have to use some unfathomably expensive, rare as rocking horse shit PPC solution that is a minefield of operating system extras you have to pay separately for to get a functional system?

Your questions say more about you.

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