Hi all,

having read the various USB problems on AW.net over the past week or so I have come to the conclusion that there appears to be two distinct issues affecting USB on OS4 on A1s.

1) debounce - a hardware issue that can be solved by a mobo fix, or use of a hub.

2) Mass Storage - Appears to be a software issue, with people having varying success rates.

Can anyone in the know please comment as I think it would be a weight off many peoples minds to know if there were any software issues. As I for one would be more than happy to stop moaning and wait for a fix to come through knowing it was on its way.

thanks

Lewis

Last edited by Rassilon on 05-Jan-2005 at 03:11 PM.

_________________
If you don't know what you need to know by the time you need to know it then its not worth knowing

@Rassilon

I have tested a photo camera ones on my AmigaOne, it found it if plugged it inn the front or the back, how ever jugging from usb inspector, the driver is never loaded, like they do for mice and keyboard, I get new device called massstoragedevice is found under mediatoolbox, the only problem is that I can?t access it, as it says that no units attached or some thing silly,

I have USB2.0 memory stick it?s never detected at all, most usb stuff is detected, however there is a few that I have problem whit,

I think there will be some changed on the USB stack in the next update too, I have some other problems as well like the ram lib crashes, the system don?t freeze it?s just that I can?t start programs and all the Icons disappear, when I move the windows, and the crash log can?t be saved, this normally some thing that shows up when I don?t turn of my computer for days, when I use the computer,

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@Rassilon
I have personally submitted bug reports against the USB subsystem as a beta tester and no, not all of my bugs have been addressed yet. It was in good enough shape for a public release but keep your expectations aligned with the reality of a pre-release. When it's done...

By the way, always Google around before jumping to any conclusions about the USB stack. There are many broken USB devices out there and it is just as likely the USB device itself is at fault. Same goes for any IDE devices, etc.

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@ssolie

I wasn't so much blaming the stack, as looking for information to explain the problems some of us are having.

The main problem I have is a lock up when using any mass storage device - making them unusable. That is why I guessed it was a software problem, whether its an issue with incompatable hardware, or a bug in a driver.

regards

Lewis

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If you don't know what you need to know by the time you need to know it then its not worth knowing

@Rassilon

I think the most useful thing we can do at the moment is gather as much data as possible on these USB issues, so we have a clear idea of what factors are at work.

My setup is an A1-SE (12/02 version) with SBLive and Sil680 cards installed. The devices I'm testing with are a CellLink wireless mouse, a Peak 128MB USB flash drive, and a SiPix StyleCam Deluxe. This is what I've observed so far :

* Using the on-board USB controller, the USB stack does not notice when devices are physically unplugged. Re-starting the stack usually removes any 'ghost' devices, but sometimes the sack is messed-up after a re-start and shows no devices at all. Sometimes not even the root hubs.

* Inserting a mass-storage device causes a complete system freeze approx 90% of the time. About 5% of insertions result in the USB notification window appearing, but the fields are blank and a lock-up soon follows. In the remaining cases a drive icon appears on Workbench but attempting any read or write operation on it causes a lock-up.

* The HDD LED is always iluminated after the machine freezes due to USB issues.

* Sometimes (about 1 try out of 10) inserting my wireless mouse causes a system freeze. The digital camera does not cause freezes, so far.

* If the camera or mouse are connected during boot, the USB stack fails to pick them up.

* The USB flash drive is picked up if connected during boot, causing a lock-up.

* Devices are correctly removed from the stack when disconnected.

* Mass-storage lock-up issues are the same as with the on-board USB controller.

* Switching the hard drives from UDMA to PIO mode stops the system locking-up when the flash drive is inserted, but attempts to read files from the drive still cause a lock-up, generally within 5-10 seconds. I've not tested this trick with the on-board controller yet.

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@DrBombcrater

Well to follow on from you:

I have an A1SE with SBLive and Sil680 cards installed. The devices I am testing are a Microsoft Optical Track ball, a Fuji A202 Digital Camera and Alcor card reader, and a Motorla E398 Mobile phone with memory card.

A sitecom 4 port hub

*Track ball works fine

*Alcor card reader - always causes lock ups, on occasion I have been able to read the contents of the memory card only for it to lock up seconds later - once I was able to actually load a photo off the card! - Thus I guess it does work, there are just some issues.

As the memory card has no name it can only be accessed through file requesters by using the device name, e.g. USB0:

*Fuji A202 - unable to find a suitable driver

*Motorola E398 - Is recognised but no driver is loaded.

As previously mentioned the 4 Port hub gets around the debounce issues thus reconnections etc are correctly recognised.

regards

Lewis

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If you don't know what you need to know by the time you need to know it then its not worth knowing

@DrBombcrater

Question does your SE board have the Deadbug style chip onboard with a bunch of green wires running around and even through one mouting hole?

I had two different SE boards one with no mods and later it was sent back to be modded. The timing chip mod was needed to fix things wrong with the PCI bus.

This early mod is completely different from the recent DMA USB mods and only affected very early developer boards.

Kgrach

@Rassilon

Here is my USB behaviour, if it helps some ... I have only few USB devices just now. All is not even supported yet.

System is : G3-SE/666/133 MHZ (Zallman cooled), 512 MB kingston, this board is fixed, ie. it have green wires installed to board. I ordered that board immediatly, when avail, but I got this bit later than others (I moved and board travels first to wrong place... ;).



Keyboard Keytronic Ergoforce

USB-inspector shows connecting every time, disconnecting don't make any effect to inspector. But you can plug and remove, blug and remove forever. Kbd works anyway. And when you want to update display in usb-inspector after removing, you have to restart usb-stack. Just like dr-bombcrater said.


Scanner Epson perfection 2400

You can connect and disconnect, inspector found it, says that it is/needs vendor specific driver. Won't work, but it might not to (yet).



Logitech LX 700 wireless kbd/mouse combo.

No hope ... cannot communicate. I think, that kbd/mouse receiver acts like hub, and it is incompatible with USB-stack. Works via ps2, excluding scrollmouse of course.

Be carefull with this kbd ... it lacks right win-key, so I don't have right amiga just now.... :) Also not standard size of qwerty (this is smaller), so it is bit difficul to use. Lot of typos. I'm used normal-size qwerty's over twenty years, so ... ;)



Sorry, I have not mass-storage devices, can't test.


Overall, I get every now and then system-lockups, when I use USB-devices, mostly immediatly after boot. Works anyway lot better than in linux, when I last time tested it.


Miikka

Last edited by mlehto on 06-Jan-2005 at 10:16 AM.

@DrBombcrater

Nice to hear, that additional usb-card will help (thanks!!). Final OS4 we might have working usb after all, even with SE-boards.

Did you find any resellers to siig cards ?? In here Finland it seems to imposibble to get them locally. In case you search and find some vendor, who sells european wide, will you please tell it ?? Thank you ...


Miikka

Last edited by mlehto on 06-Jan-2005 at 10:36 AM.

@mlehto

Quote:

Be carefull with this kbd ... it lacks right win-key, so I don't have right amiga just now.... :)

You can use the WinMenu key as RAmiga if you type some random things into U-Boot (see FAQ or Hints&Tips on http://www.intuitionbase.com )

I have seen keyboards without Scroll Lock, which is a bigger problem.

Last edited by Chris_Y on 06-Jan-2005 at 10:25 AM.
Last edited by Chris_Y on 06-Jan-2005 at 10:24 AM.

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@kgrach



>Question does your SE board have the Deadbug style chip onboard with a bunch of green wires running around and even through one mouting hole?

>I had two different SE boards one with no mods and later it was sent back to be modded. The timing chip mod was needed to fix things wrong with the PCI bus.

I really have green wires ...

Can you please explain what effect you get without these timing chip rewiring ?? I'm just curious ...

This is bit offtopic, but is soundcard problems due of hw or sw ?? I have sb128 wiht loads of sound dissortion. Some cases it won't work allmost att all. I ordered anyway Terratec, so I hope, that it helps...

Miikka

@Chris_Y

Hey, thanks a lot !


Miikka

@kgrach

I ordered my A1 at the the WoA Show on the 2nd November 2002. It was delivered on Dec 22nd of the same year and has the green patching wires, not sure about the deadbug chip.

Lewis

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@kgrach

Quote:

Question does your SE board have the Deadbug style chip onboard with a bunch of green wires running around and even through one mouting hole?

Yes, see the picture I linked in my first post. My SE is identical to the one shown, right down to the patch wires and the date scribbled on the flash rom.

@mlehto
Quote:

Be carefull with this kbd ... it lacks right win-key, so I don't have right amiga just now.... :)

Going off topic for a moment, I wonder if there's any way to re-map the Windows-key functions to other keys? I'm using an IBM Model-M (The One True Keyboard) and it doesn't have any Windows keys at all.

Quote:

Did you find any resellers to siig cards ?? In here Finland it seems to imposibble to get then locally. In case you search and find some vendor, who sells european wide, will you please tell it ??

Maplin has the USB/FW/SATA/UDMA Siig card in stock, and I believe they ship EU-wide. But I 'd wait befofe buying one because the card is useless right now. None of the required drivers are available yet.

And you never know, Eyetech might be able to fix the SE's problems.

Quote:

This is bit offtopic, but is soundcard problems due of hw or sw ?? I have sb128 wiht loads of sound dissortion. Some cases it won't work allmost att all.

The SB128 doesn't work under OS4 on the SE. I tried four different models of SB128 and they all gave the same stuttery, corrupted sound. The same cards and the same driver work okay on the XE, so there may well still be some kind of problem with the SE's PCI bus.

_________________
Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

@Rassilon

All the USB things i've tried yet, works on my A1 USB HD, USB Pen, USB memory reader, USB mouse, USB hubs...

_________________
ikir

@ikir

I see from your website that you have an XE board and not an SE.

Lewis

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If you don't know what you need to know by the time you need to know it then its not worth knowing

USBInspector (OS4 natch !) doesnt see my Clie, or (I dont think) the USB portion of my 7-in-1 reader (the other bit is a floppy on a floppy cable !) wot I got from Maplin - a Mitsumi I believe.

I need to try the Debounce thing in Linux I think, as I aint certain about the OS4 tools yet - only just got USBStart and USBStop to work ! (needed to fiddle with the attrib bits in icon info editor).

if anyone can provide decent instructions on how to use (doesnt have to be layman speak, just clear !) I can play with it further.

(for info, OS4.0Upd2, and Debian Woody with Kernel 2.4.26)

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ok, its actually XL426 in the picture but you know what I mean.

@DrBombcrater


Quote:

Yes, see the picture I linked in my first post. My SE is identical to the one shown, right down to the patch wires and the date scribbled on the flash rom.



It looks like same as mine.

@DrBombcrater

Quote:

Going off topic for a moment, I wonder if there's any way to re-map the Windows-key functions to other keys? I'm using an IBM Model-M (The One True Keyboard) and it doesn't have any Windows keys at all.




Never mind ... lets chance name of topic if needed :)

Have to say, that you kbd is probably one of the best never made. I had one late eighties and never used better since.


Quotet from top of (keyboard of yours is mentioned): http://www.intuitionbase.com/hints.php

Here are keycodes for PC101/104 keyboards. If anyone has an IBM Model M, or similar 101/102 key keyboard without the Windows or Menu keys, you may remap those keys using the following codes.

For Example, to remap the windows keys as F11 and F12, enter the following line in the UBoot prompt...

"setenv kbddev_mapping 0x57=0x66 0x58=0x67"

Click here for a full list of keycodes.

And here is keycodes: http://www.intuitionbase.com/keycodes.txt

Quote end ...



You can swap winkeys to F11-F12 since they are useless in amiga anyway ?? Or you can choose other keys also, whatever is you personal flavour :)



Quote:

Maplin has the USB/FW/SATA/UDMA Siig card in stock, and I believe they ship EU-wide. But I 'd wait befofe buying one because the card is useless right now. None of the required drivers are available yet.

And you never know, Eyetech might be able to fix the SE's problems.




Thank you :) . Have to check this out. At least USB will work, alltought only 1.1 mode ?? Don't know, I need anyway FW sooner or later, so I might use it in peecee at meantime.

I hope, that we get fixes to SE ... or special offer to XC ?? Maybe I ask too much. Even ArctiaP is not published yet.

Anyway, I'm been stuck too many years with a12k and it's limitations. Without proper expandbility I am not intrested in to spend my moneys to computer. My a12k is one big piece of different cards switched together with glue and chewing gum. No thanks, no more that kind of... Or what you think about : mobo->turbo->SCSI->memory. Or mobo->connector->ZII-board->PAR-output->ribbon50pin->PAR-INPUT (input use ISA for power only). Many of connectors, too many... add for this one too flexible mikronik tower and mess is ready.

Quote:

This is bit offtopic, but is soundcard problems due of hw or sw ?? I have sb128 with loads of sound dissortion. Some cases it won't work allmost att all.

The SB128 doesn't work under OS4 on the SE. I tried four different models of SB128 and they all gave the same stuttery, corrupted sound. The same cards and the same driver work okay on the XE, so there may well still be some kind of problem with the SE's PCI bus.




That is something, what I thought also. Don't know, what it may be, because overall performance with sil0680 is anyway proper. If there is lot of errors during transferring data via PCI-bus, it may drop performance drastically (??).
It's bit scary, if all drivers works ok in XE, but only one driver fails in SE. If other cards work ...

Best recards

Miikka

Last edited by mlehto on 06-Jan-2005 at 01:59 PM.

@ikir

Yeah ... sure they works better ... you are happy owner of XE ... :)


Miikka

One addition ... when I complained before, that every now and then I loose kbd and mouse after boot-up. It's gone now, after I changed both to Logitech LX700 combo.

They were before some ancient Keytronic kbd and just-fine-working logitech scroll mouse. Most likely one have bad/old/loosing connector, and OS4 or mobo didn't like it.

Bit of topic but SE related anyway.

Miikka