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Lou wrote: @Tigger [quote] Tigger wrote: [quote] And you do realize that at that time, the Neo Geo, Sega Genesis, 3DO and Turbo Duo were on the market competing with Nintendo, right?

Yes and Nintendo was the market leader by a huge margin then the basically got Sony to create PS1, which then outsells them 3 to 1, so they are a strong second to Sega, then we go to the next round as we talk about below.

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It's amusing that you think Nintendo lost to MS in the GC/PS2/XBOX generation. In consoles sold worldwide, no measurable difference.

Units sold, they lost my millions, sure they beat Dreamcast, but there 3rd place in after PS3 and Xbox.

So instead of being 2nd then 3rd, they would have had all the PS sales as the PS would have been a Nintendo addon, and Sony may have never made the PS2 or PS3, why exactly do you think they were better off not doing that. Lots of Nintendo execs dont think that.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

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So instead of being 2nd then 3rd, they would have had all the PS sales as the PS would have been a Nintendo addon, and Sony may have never made the PS2 or PS3, why exactly do you think they were better off not doing that. Lots of Nintendo execs dont think that. -Tig

Please recall that the PS1 launched over a year before the N64 as did the PS2 before the GC and Xbox. Sony does not have that advantage this time and the results are ever so evident. After 2 generations of over-promising and under-delivering on both quality and performance, the average consumer is wisening up. There's an old saying - "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

The Dreamcast was dead when they announced it's development 6 months after releasing the Saturn. As I said before - SEGA shot themselves in the foot releasing the 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast within a 4 or so year period. Talk about dividing a market...

I'm not saying Nintendo is better off, just giving the history lesson. It's interesting how you ignore questionability of being 2nd or 3rd. The console sales difference is less than 10% and the Xbox had a much higher failure rate, but not as bad as the PS2. Let's not forget the boxes that are just chipped and act as media players... As I alluded to before (or you glossed over) the software sales speak for themselves.

You are correct - I don't believe any Nintendo exec felt behind the Xbox that generation, just look at any earnings report for the 2 companies between 11/01 and 10/06 with regards to gaming.

Last edited by Lou on 16-Mar-2007 at 02:08 AM.

@BrianK

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Europeans get PS3 gaming...sort of.. The Inquirer just got their PAL PS3 tried out 12 games and only found 1 to work... Here's hoping for updated firmware shortly after the European shipping.

The firmware upgrade is required as it includes the emulator. The machine tested didn't have the upgrade.

They've since announced 1200 titles will be compatible at launch.

--

BTW on the question of 3D display performance of PS3 Linux, some work was done on it (Mesa3D) at Terrasoft's hack-a-thon while back. In 4 days they managed to get frame rates to improve 7 X.

It's running 80X faster than it runs on an Intel Woodcrest (fastest x86 on the market).

There's a video that mentions it here.

As an aside the OtherOS question is answered here. Terrasoft didn't just port Yellow Dog to PS3, Sony contracted them to port it. That's right, Sony *paid* for a company to port a commercial OS.

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Whyzzat?

@minator

Emmm. Intel ViiV desktop/Centrino laptop or AMD LIVE desktop/Turion laptops PC includes a companion DX9 GPU… “X86” by itself is not complaint for Vista AeroGlass enabled PC.

Pure CPU vs CPU battles was rendered obsolete in the era of Windows Vista, release of Intel Centrino and AMD's assimulation of ATI.

In pure FLOPS server market, Intel's Xeon platform is directly competing with AMD's K9+R580/RV570 (Crossfire enabled) platform.

Last edited by Hammer on 16-Mar-2007 at 08:05 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Mar-2007 at 07:20 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Mar-2007 at 07:12 AM.

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@MikeB

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Within Home you will be able to launch multiplayer games and after finishing playing the game you return back together with your buddies into your or someone else's private space

Just noting the different focus i.e. there's not point mentioning that both XBOX LIVE and PS3 HOME launch multiple player games.

Anyway, Microsoft focuses media sharing between Windows devices e.g. XBOX 360, Vista PC/Laptops and Windows CE HDTV and other devices (PDA).

Last edited by Hammer on 16-Mar-2007 at 07:38 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Mar-2007 at 07:30 AM.

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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

@Tigger

Quote:

So instead of being 2nd then 3rd, they would have had all the PS sales as the PS would have been a Nintendo addon, and Sony may have never made the PS2 or PS3, why exactly do you think they were better off not doing that. Lots of Nintendo execs dont think that.

First this is all theoretical so you may or may not be wrong.

I think another view may be Nintendo kept the CD add-on for thier console. Add-ons typically don't sell as well as the main console. As such the Sega Dreamcast would have come up against a less agressive product stance and may have made better in roads. Even with the PS came out there were some Dreamcast games that were better. Perhaps if Sega only had to compete against Nintendo instead of 2 companies, Nintendo and Sony, that Sega could have done a better job with the Dreamcast.

Dreamcast rules BTW.

@minator

Very impressive and I hate Linux.

If only AmigaOS4 was on this thing, making use of that processing power - the thing would fly.

Keeping my figures crossed of course.

Yellow dog 2 Gigs for OS (perhaps also the included apps)! What OS4 could do with two gigs, just 10% of the smallest PS3 disk, for apps and plenty of space left over, if it could read/write the PS3 partition, that would be perfect.

This is our big chance, let's hope the the move is made.

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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@Hammer

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Emmm. Intel ViiV desktop/Centrino laptop or AMD LIVE desktop/Turion laptops PC includes a companion DX9 GPU? ?X86? by itself is not complaint for Vista AeroGlass enabled PC.

Emm indeed, I was talking about a software OpenGL stack, it's nothing to do with not DX9 or Vista.

The point being even with the RSX currently inaccessible PS3 Linux can still do 3D graphics.

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In pure FLOPS server market, Intel's Xeon platform is directly competing with AMD's K9+R580/RV570 (Crossfire enabled) platform.

People complain that Cell programming is difficult, read up on GPU programming, it makes Cell sound downright easy. *cough* looks at new sig *cough*

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Whyzzat?

NPD Feb #s... (acknowledgement of various NPD issues before MikeB repeats these and attempts to claims how the PS3 pwned the console sales.. )

Hardware Sales in Feb 07
DS 485K
Wii 335K
PS2 295K
360 228K
PSP 176K
GBA 136K
PS3 127K
NGC 42K

Top 10 Selling games
360: 5 out of 10
Wii : 3 out of 10
PS2: 1 out of 10
DS: 1 out of 10

@BrianK

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BrianK wrote: NPD Feb #s... (acknowledgement of various NPD issues before MikeB repeats these and attempts to claims how the PS3 pwned the console sales.. ) Hardware Sales in Feb 07 DS 485K Wii 335K PS2 295K 360 228K PSP 176K GBA 136K PS3 127K NGC 42K Top 10 Selling games 360: 5 out of 10 Wii : 3 out of 10 PS2: 1 out of 10 DS: 1 out of 10

I could say alot here...instead:

@MikeB

I'm interested after seeing the Little Big Planet video. Propa cute! I've ordered one the other because of that game, mad I know but it looks fun.

I haven't been able to post in the poll though because the options are..... Well, they're nowhere near what I need to enter. My vote would have gone with, I'll get one in time but I'm not in a rush. Then changing to, I'm in the queue for one now

FuZion.

@minator

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minator wrote: @Hammer Quote: Emmm. Intel ViiV desktop/Centrino laptop or AMD LIVE desktop/Turion laptops PC includes a companion DX9 GPU? ?X86? by itself is not complaint for Vista AeroGlass enabled PC. Emm indeed, I was talking about a software OpenGL stack, it's nothing to do with not DX9 or Vista.

In regards to mentioned X86 part, one can’t artificially separate the two since DX9/DX10 GPUs are included in 2007 Intel ViiV desktop/Centrino laptop or AMD LIVE desktop/Turion initiative i.e. both AMD and Intel markets to OEM customers the complete system platform.

Also, GPU software runs on DX9/DX10 GPU and Vista Premium Ready (AeroGlass enabled) PC is a reference platform e.g. refer to past MPC1, MPC2, PC97, PC2001.

STI could try separating the two segments (as evident in their marketing materials(1)), but from Intel and AMD’s POV and marketing materials, the fusion already occurred via Intel vs AMD system platform wars.

1. http://www.dailytech.com/Foldinghome+Enlists+the+Power+of+PS3s+Cell+Broadband+Engine/article6507.htm

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The point being even with the RSX currently inaccessible PS3 Linux can still do 3D graphics.

Sony’s problem.

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Quote: In pure FLOPS server market, Intel's Xeon platform is directly competing with AMD's K9+R580/RV570 (Crossfire enabled) platform. People complain that Cell programming is difficult, read up on GPU programming, it makes Cell sound downright easy. *cough* looks at new sig *cough*

The blog posting was countered in http://www.serpentine.com/blog/2007/02/22/a-quick-programmers-look-at-nvidias-cuda/

Secondly, Bryan O'Sullivan didn't factor in Peakstream’s API.

Last edited by Hammer on 16-Mar-2007 at 10:04 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Mar-2007 at 09:51 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Mar-2007 at 09:41 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Mar-2007 at 09:39 PM.

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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

MikeB wrote:

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Less than 3 hours of sleep until I have to wake up and ready myself for my trip to Cebit 2007! (My third year in a row)

A blast from the past:


A look at the future:

@BrianK

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NPD Feb #s... (acknowledgement of various NPD issues before MikeB repeats these and attempts to claims how the PS3 pwned the console sales

Grow up... I just pointed out that despite a higher price point initial uptake of the PS3 has been higher in Japan and North America than for it's closest competitor the XBox 360 and the Playstation 1, noting that the PS3 peformed roughly in accordance to my expectations.

MikeB Posted on 21-Feb-2007 7:31:33:

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The PS3 seems to be doing reasonably well, for North America now at least 780500 + 243554 = 1024054 seems to have been sold already, beating last year's North American XBox 360 sales of roughly 951,500. Actually pretty good considering this is by far the XBox 360's strongest market. The PS2 is still going strong. I expect February to be relatively slow thoug, while picking up considerably in March.

I said this in relation to hardware contraints, a lack of important software releases for February and quite a few new additions for March.

Currently this stands at roughly 1,160,500 PS3 vs 1,117,000 XBox 360s, so about on par within the XBox 360's main market, North America.

Japan: 789,500 PS3s vs 362,000 XBox 360s (Total) vs 123,000 (same timespan)
http://www.vgcharts.org/japconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=PS3&type=2&align=0

Last edited by MikeB on 16-Mar-2007 at 11:09 PM.

@MikeB

What an ugly future you present to us...

Last edited by pixie on 17-Mar-2007 at 12:44 AM.

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The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@MikeB
Quote:

Grow up...

Get a sense of humor...

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Currently this stands at roughly 1,160,500 PS3 vs 1,117,000 XBox 360s, so about on par within the XBox 360's

Compared to last gen the PS3 is a doing poorly. PS3 ships less then the PS2.
http://www.vgcharts.org/japconscomps.php?name1=PS2&name2=PS3&type=0&align=0

Xbox360 beats the Xbox
http://www.vgcharts.org/japconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=XB&type=0&align=0

Wii beats the Gamecube
http://www.vgcharts.org/japconscomps.php?name1=GC&name2=Wii&type=0&align=0

Seems the writing is clearly on the wall Sony will NOT enjoy the 70% marketshare of the PS2. Sony has lost their significant lead. The market is more split. If trends continue it's likely to be Wii over Xbox360 over PS3.

Rumors on the street is vendors including Wal-Mart have asked Sony for price cuts on the PSP. With the PS3 selling less then the PSP vendors asking for price cuts on the PS3 is likely to be next.

Last edited by BrianK on 17-Mar-2007 at 01:27 AM.

@BrianK

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Seems the writing is clearly on the wall Sony will NOT enjoy the 70% marketshare of the PS2. Sony has lost their significant lead. The market is more split. If trends continue it's likely to be Wii over Xbox360 over PS3.

Wii probably leads the XBox 360 before the end of year.

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@Lou

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So would you say then that software is what counts? If so, then again - advantage Nintendo. Fun software always wins out over powerful hardware.

Of course from a game console perspective you are right, but I think the PS3 currently has a very impressive gaming line-up, many types of ganes which wouldn't suit a Nintendo Wii as well as they suit the PS3 (much better graphics, physics, AI, sound, etc).

IMO the Nintendo Wii better serves the low end market and the PS3 serves the high end gaming market. Sony as a company still serves the low end market as well with the PS2.

Low end => High end home consoles, currently still shipped
PS2 => Nintendo Wii => XBox 360 Premium => PS3

Would you really have preferred a PS2.5 ranking in between the Nintendo Wii and the XBox 360 for let's say $300 dollar (no harddrive, no Cell, no Blu-Ray, no Wi-Fi, no HDMI 1.3)? Nintendo could not compete in terms of horse power and graphics, so they aimed for the low end market which is easier for general consumers to enter. Personally I would have been very dissapointed if a company like Sony would have aimed lower, placing their console in more direct competition with the Nintendo Wii (as well as the PS2, which in such a case could better be retired). IMO this would have made the PS3 much less interesting as a AmigaOS4 host platform and probably would add less value to the Amiga market, as there already is the Samantha product.

Last edited by MikeB on 17-Mar-2007 at 12:30 PM.

@BrianK

Putting words into someone else's mouth like the way you did, I don't consider to be funny at all, anyway it's often hard to distinguish between below the waist aimed sarcastic misquotes and genuinely fun intended jokes, in this case it looked more like the former to me.

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Seems the writing is clearly on the wall Sony will NOT enjoy the 70% marketshare of the PS2. Sony has lost their significant lead. The market is more split. If trends continue it's likely to be Wii over Xbox360 over PS3.

I think it's still too early to tell, as we don't know what a Slimline or cost reduced PS3 will eventually cost. How low they eventually aim with regard to the lowend entry market. How long will the PS2 market last (current lowest end entry home gaming console being shipped) and how long the PS3 will last!

@MikeB

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I think it's still too early to tell, as we don't know what a Slimline or cost reduced PS3 will eventually cost. How low they eventually aim with regard to the lowend entry market. How long will the PS2 market last (current lowest end entry home gaming console being shipped) and how long the PS3 will last!

PS3 is massively overpriced and I expect Sony cuts prices before end of year. Especially if other blu-ray devices get price drop Sony must follow.

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook