@BrianK

Quote:

Worth to the user is no doubt. As I have to pay for the electricity.

My PC uses more electricity, but also serves to heat my living room. (energy mostly turns to heat eventually)

Quote:

The result is millions of PS3 increasing pollution and Global Warming.

Also depends on how the energy was generated, I pay a little extra for "green" electricy (Windmills and such).

Every PS3 can substitute the workload of around 10-20 PCs to help these scientists in finding cures.

@jtsiren

IMO to start a statement with "I think" is never really that much a" bold statement", to state: "Resistance wouldn't even break a sweat" on the XBox 360 with 100% certainty, while not actually having played the game from start to finish looks like a much bolder statement to me.

I hope you see the bias in the comments you pick to reply to...

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Mar-2007 at 03:00 PM.

@GregS

[continued from X11-thread due to OT]

Quote:

A lot depends on market take-up, what I meant was put ordinary PS3 users who believes they need to have a computer, let them have Linux for free for a few months, and then let them use AmigaOS for an hour - Amiga wins easily as the most attractive option by far.

How so? Personally I highly doubt that many would prefer OS4 to a modern and free Linux distribution like Ubuntu on PS3. There aren't any compelling applications or games that would make "Joe Player" pay 100-200 EUR to have OS4 instead of Linux. And contrary to some persistent myths on Amiga forums, AmigaOS is not exactly easy-to-use for a newbie who has never used an Amigaish OS before.

Quote:

Amiga is responsive, easy to understand, elegant to learn and it has always been, and still is, a sweet OS.

"Responsiveness" might be a factor on embedded hardware, mobile devices or very old hardware, but on the PS3 this is rather irrelevant.
"Elegant to learn", see above, I simply don't see that. At present, OS4 is a geek-OS for long-time Amiga enthusiasts, the learning curve isn't exactly steep and documentation is poor. All the things that we got so used of over the years (editing s-s, ENV-variables, tooltypes, etc.) will look rather confusing for a newbie. It would require quite some fundamental changes to make the OS more appealing to Joe Average. Quite ironic that such changes possibly would make the OS less appealing to us.

Quote:

Linux in the end will appeal to very few.

And if there isn't any fundamental change, OS4 will appeal to much less, especially given that it's not free. Still, even this comparably small amount of people would probably mean that its userbase will explode compared to current levels.

Quote:

Bahahaha! Crysis already beats anything the PS3 has to date or is likely to turn out. PCs will continue to improve over the next 8 years of the PS3 lifespan, if they make that estimated 8 years. You cannot seriously believe the PS3 has the power that a PC will in 8 years do you?

That's actually a very good question, the raw flops (etc.) figures will no doubt be a great deal higher but it depends on the system's architecture as to how well they will be able to deliver it, Cell takes a lot of thought to program but it's far better at actually getting to it's theoretical maximums. It'll also scale very well, existing PC designs don't unless they are on very specific tasks.


@BrianK

Quote:

Come on dude drugs are illegal.

LOL, they're not where he lives!

_________________
Whyzzat?

@MikeB

Quote:

IMO to start a statement with "I think" is never really that much a" bold statement"

That's just semantics.

Quote:

I think the XBox 360 would have trouble handling the more hectic moments of Resistance

Again, why do you "think" the Xbox 360 would have trouble handling the more hectic moments of Resistance?

I would like to know how much merit to place on the comment, that's all.

Quote:

I hope you see the bias in the comments you pick to reply to...

I think it was a careless thing to say on your part, and yes, I have a bias against unsubstantiated claims - with "I think" in the beginning or not. I don't think asking for clarification and something to back that up was unreasonable.

I don't think I have a bias against PS3 really. Actually, I think I may get one come Friday to complement my Xbox 360 setup (as I posted in the thread I started some weeks ago). I want the future games selection. I just no longer feel PS3 will replace my Xbox 360 as originally planned.

Last edited by jtsiren on 19-Mar-2007 at 03:21 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Quote: Mind you impressive for a console but again likely the 360 could pull these off too. Resistance wouldn't even break a sweat

In all fairness, why do you think that?

@Trezzer

Quote:

Yes, I'm sure the 200 million PC gamers will disappear overnight.

Playing a bought game isn't the same thing as playing a cracked copy. The PC gaming industry shrunk roughly 40% in the US within the last 5 years, this isn't good especially taking into consideration inflation. The PS2 market by itself dwarfes the PC gaming market.

The main advantage PC gaming currently offers is mouse and keyboard support, when if games like World of Warcraft, Civilization IV and Sims 2 would also be ported to capable game consoles together with keyboard and mouse support, this could shrink the PC gaming market even further.

That doesn't mean the PC gaming market would vanish suddenly though (just less shelf space, more high profile PC games going multi-platform).

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Mar-2007 at 04:55 PM.

@jtsiren

Quote:

Again, why do you "think" the Xbox 360 would have trouble handling the more hectic moments of Resistance?

I think you will have to play through Resistance yourself to fully appreciate my comment below.

The game requires a lot of simultaneous processing power to support the large number of moving characters and objects in the levels. Every one of the characters has sophisticated AI and navigation routines running in the background. Every object, including characters, has constantly access to complex physics and collision systems. Bodies and robot parts don't just disappear but continue to lay around the battlefield turning the scene into a graveyard.

In Resistance much of the workload is offloaded to the Cell's SPEs, such as the physics, dynamic lighting calculations, collision calculations, 7.1 Audio, etc, this allowing the game to run without framedrops in hectic parts of the game. IMO both Resistance and Motorstorm as launch titles provide good previews of what the PS3 is capable of, making good use of the Cell processor.

@jtsiren

Quote:

In all fairness, why do you think that?

Simply because the visual quality is lagging behind other current titles available on the 360 (or PC for that matter) from what I have seen of Resistance. I've seen plenty of screenshots as well as gameplay videos, and there's nothing in there that screams "Fear me, for I am a next gen game!". It seriously looks like a PC game from a couple of years ago. Why some (well, one at least) claim otherwise is a mystery to me. Considering the amount of things going on in Lost Planet and the texture quality in both Gears of War and GRAW 2, Resistance looks very much like a launch title. A decent launch title for sure, but no more than, say, Call of Duty 2 in its day.

I expect that Motorstorm might be closer to be as taxing as e.g. Forza 2 since they both feature immense amounts of physics calculation.

Last edited by Trezzer on 19-Mar-2007 at 07:22 PM.

@Trezzer

Resistance and Call of Duty are good comparisions. Resistance does have more detail but nothing that wow's you. Actually had GoW not come out I think Resistance would have been seen as more impressive. I know some love Resistance but having played both there is a reason GoW has had a number of award nominations and wins. GoW is simply one of the finest Third Person Shooters on the market. Resistance is a fairly good first person shooter it shines slightly above the competition in the FPS genre, a nice launch title.

@BrianK

I thought you hadn't actually played or seen the game beyond its first few levels? Preferences differ, but for someone who actually played both games to the end I think Resistance wins on all fronts except for flashy graphics (I fully understand this is important for a first impression). This is my favourite shooter since Half-life 2!



[edit] better picture

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Mar-2007 at 10:00 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 19-Mar-2007 at 09:04 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Playing a bought game isn't the same thing as playing a cracked copy. The PC gaming industry shrunk roughly 40% in the US within the last 5 years, this isn't good especially taking into consideration inflation. The PS2 market by itself dwarfes the PC gaming market.

Uhm, don't through stones while in a glass house, the PS and PS2, as well as the XBox, was and is a pirate haven.

_________________

@MikeB

I dunno why you posted this grab of all, I've seen many impressive Resistance screenshots but this one looks pathetic, no shadows and soldiers' legs are in the wall, implying pathetic physics that I am sure are not representative of the game at all.

_________________

@AMiGR

Quote:

Uhm, don't through stones while in a glass house, the PS and PS2, as well as the XBox, was and is a pirate haven.

The point is the PC games market has shrunk a lot, I genuinely believe piracy is more dominant within the PC games market, its even smaller than just the XBox 360 games market.

Quote:

I dunno why you posted this grab of all, I've seen many impressive Resistance screenshots but this one looks pathetic, no shadows and soldiers' legs are in the wall, implying pathetic physics that I am sure are not representative of the game at all.

Just a quick multiplayer clan shot.

Yes, Resistance has good shadows, sorry about the bad shot (updated).

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Mar-2007 at 10:04 PM.

@MikeB

re: resistance screenshot

I can't handle an FPS without a mouse, I tried that once. Would be cool if a third party mouse could be used with these games.

Last edited by T_Bone on 19-Mar-2007 at 10:11 PM.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@hatschi

Quote:

Personally I highly doubt that many would prefer OS4 to a modern and free Linux distribution like Ubuntu on PS3.

Linux remains an overkill OS, Ubuntu is nicer than most and if you use GUI software as it comes the difference is not that great I agree. However, the huge amount of free Linux software, creates problems of installation and use that soon rub the users nose in arcane dependencies and oddities of use that plunge them into a full Unix environment.

There is a lacunae of modern software on the Amiga, I am not denying that, but in resolving this (quick X11 ports) we still will have nothing like the problems of installing from the Linux software base.

If there is no OS4 for the PS3, I will be getting use to Linux (again!), but as very much a worse choice between the two. Also just what are these critical modernities that separate Linux from AOS4, aren't most of them rather arcane and specialist?

Quote:

here aren't any compelling applications or games that would make "Joe Player" pay 100-200 EUR to have OS4 instead of Linux.

The application issue stands but why such heavy pricing - my OS4 cost about 48Euros. So long as the OS costs about the same as a good game, I can't see this being a major barrier. Plus I think you have underestimated the difficulties and nastiness of Linux as an OS. It has proved itself to me to be a huge pain in the rear end with every attempt to use it, my last attempt being just a few weeks ago.

Now Linux specifically designed for the PS3 will no-doubt eliminate a good deal of the installation and immediate use problems, I hoped so, because it will be what I am using if OS4 does not port to PS3.

But Linux is not nice, not in any number of the versions I have tried to use. It is overly complex, difficult to understand and a significant pain when Linux applications are involved outside the bundled set.

Quote:

contrary to some persistent myths on Amiga forums, AmigaOS is not exactly easy-to-use for a newbie who has never used an Amigaish OS before.

No new OS is easy-to-use in the first instance, the critical point comes just after getting use to it and then trying to fiddle things to taste and use. Amiga is outstanding in this.

Quote:

At present, OS4 is a geek-OS for long-time Amiga enthusiasts, the learning curve isn't exactly steep and documentation is poor. All the things that we got so used of over the years (editing s-s, ENV-variables, tooltypes, etc.) will look rather confusing for a newbie.

Yes this is true, but despite the primitiveness the connections are far easier to use and understand, besides which OS4 disposes most of the need to do any of this, compared to older versions, in fact, dead simple. The S drawer remains, but I have found that a bonus, relatively easy to read and change without causing catastrophic failures. Likewise Tooltypes actually appear to me still more useful and intuitive way to change init states, and make variations of them. Just trying to work out how to fine tune a Linux app is nothing that can be recommended.

Documentation for OS4 needs to be improved I agree. But Linux documentation! Now there is plenty of it, but less would be an improvement, I spend more time tracking down and reading reams of it for so little profit and so much variations between different installations, OS4 is no worse off for the gaps.

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@MikeB

Quote:

I thought you hadn't actually played or seen the game beyond its first few levels?

Due to your encouragement I went back to go beyond these first levels. It does get better but darn why does it take so long to get to the action? Now these games are both shooters and for me Resistance is better described as Halo2 or Call of Duty or Quake the First Person Shooter, FPS. Gears is more duck and cover it's a Third Person Shooter, TPS, comparable to Resident Evil 4. So while there is some crossover these things don't directly compare. Each game has some foibles which can be annoying. Sometimes GoW seems have a very infrequent graphic issue. Sometimes Resistance loses sound and I hate square fingers what's up with that detraction from next gen. In their respective genres GoW does more for the TPS then Resistance does for the FPS.

Anyway to each their own. Many seem, and we do, prefer GoW it just feels fresher in gameplay and concepts. We go back to GoW more often and that's what counts.

Last edited by BrianK on 20-Mar-2007 at 12:37 AM.

@MikeB

Devil May Cry 4 was just announced as multi-platform PS3 and 360. Will the hemoraging of Sony past exclusives end? Is Resident Evil 5 far behind? What else is left? Final Fantasy? That would be the death blow, IMO.

@BrianK

Oh, Resident Evil 5 is already coming to 360.

As for Final Fantasy - the creator of the series wishes to see it on 360. While I'm not really an FF fan, it would certainly be a biggie for the platform.

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Mar-2007 at 02:40 AM.

There's been some discussion of video playback in this thread...

I've just read a report from someone who was using MPlayer on a PS3. It played 1080p video smooth at 50% CPU utilisation.

Another user compared the SPEs to PPE when running scalar (read normal, non-vectorised) code, it turned out to be about 50% faster providing the code could fit in the LS.

A single SPE is said to be equivalent of a 1.7 - 2GHz G4 - *without* vectorisation.

_________________
Whyzzat?