@MikeB

OK, thanks. The thing that always puzzles me with comments like that, though, is you discuss concurrency on PS3 like it isn't done (or perhaps even possible) on the Xbox 360. One of the first things people noticed when they starterd playing next-gen games on Xbox 360 a little over year ago was the "processing power to support the large number of moving characters and objects".

I've read reviews on Resistance, GoW and the like, and nothing so far (other than you) has suggested that Resistance would be somehow extra special. It is a good game for sure, but extra? I have also read reviews from local games writers that I trust and know since years, that have played the latest PC, Xbox 360, PS3 etc. games... and nobody has found Resistance extra special (unlike GoW which has been praised to high heavens). I was and am interested in its storyline, that looks nice, but to guess Xbox 360 might not run the game technically well is to me a bit far fetched considering this background. I will have to see what I think if I ever play it.

E.g. GameSpot: "Much like the rest of the game, the quality of the visuals might not be vastly superior to what other graphically impressive shooters have delivered in the past, but they're at least as good and marginally better in most ways."

I can appreciate you have played it and GoW all the way through. What I do wonder is do you really have the expertise to judge technically what both of these machines are capable or not capable of. If you had some explanation on this, or a strong background in multi-platform gaming or game development, or at least a credible source you could point me to, I'd probably think differently, but so far when you continue to praise the processing power of PS3 even in cases where the majority of the world doesn't seem to I have to wonder. Resistance, by all accounts, seems to be a good game. What it is that makes you think Xbox 360 couldn't handle it remains a mystery. Just because you saw a lot of characters and movement there doesn't mean Xbox 360 couldn't match that.

If and when PS3 really starts delivering performance levels Xbox 360 doesn't, I'll acknowledge it quite happily. Hey, if I buy one, I'd really want it to perform as well as possible. So far, though, the performance debate has been coming up with pretty even results and using Resistance as an example of PS3's superiority just seems a bit puzzling to me compared to what I've read about it. Eventually there will be games possibly on both platforms that are superior to what the other one is doing, but currently we are still ways from that in my opinion.

If I change my mind come Friday, I'll let you guys know.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @AMiGR Quote: Uhm, don't through stones while in a glass house, the PS and PS2, as well as the XBox, was and is a pirate haven. The point is the PC games market has shrunk a lot, I genuinely believe piracy is more dominant within the PC games market, its even smaller than just the XBox 360 games market. Quote: I dunno why you posted this grab of all, I've seen many impressive Resistance screenshots but this one looks pathetic, no shadows and soldiers' legs are in the wall, implying pathetic physics that I am sure are not representative of the game at all. Just a quick multiplayer clan shot. Yes, Resistance has good shadows, sorry about the bad shot (updated).

Looks like an ordinary 2006 PC game…

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@minator


Quote:

That's actually a very good question, the raw flops (etc.) figures will no doubt be a great deal higher but it depends on the system's architecture as to how well they will be able to deliver it, Cell takes a lot of thought to program but it's far better at actually getting to it's theoretical maximums. It'll also scale very well, existing PC designs don't unless they are on very specific tasks.

In regards to "very specific tasks"; this is dependant on the GPU's architecture.
In gaming context, physics with interactions is one the targets for GPU** applications.

**Minus G7x..

Last edited by Hammer on 20-Mar-2007 at 09:49 AM.

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Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Hammer Quote: Emm, 1080p is an old hat in the era of 256bit GDDRx @1.4Ghz equipped GPU (e.g. ~160 USD AMD Radeon X1900 Pro (RV570))... I think more relevant is what kind of user experience can be achieved, rather than just the possible output resolution. .

There is a purpose why I mentioned RV570 instead of GpGPU poor G70. “Gears of War” will be release for PC btw.

Quote:

The market is now moving towards 720p/1080i and 1080p HDTVs, the PC gaming market seems to be in trouble. .

PC's open architecture doesn’t lent itself to piracy protection e.g. Apple’s MacOS X was cracked.

Last edited by Hammer on 20-Mar-2007 at 09:28 AM.

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@jtsiren

Quote:

OK, thanks. The thing that always puzzles me with comments like that, though, is you discuss concurrency on PS3 like it isn't done (or perhaps even possible) on the Xbox 360.

Resistance's graphics are good but not the main focuss of the game. The SPEs are strong at calculations and number crunching. There's more to games than just pretty graphics, that's what I wanted to point out after Trezzer's comment (XBox 360 wouldn't even break a sweat) and the PS3 is more powerful at this than the XBox 360, I find it funny that apparently Trezzer's comment regarding solely 'excellent vs good graphics' as well as 'his technical background vs mine' seems to comfort you more.

If you play Resistance through you will get into scenes with so many things going on simultaneously fluently, I personally haven't experienced in a shooter like this before.

Quote:

It is a good game for sure, but extra?

Great story line, unique weapons. It builds on top of the advances seen in prior FPSs, they didn't intend to fix something which wasn't actually broken. For instance I would have preferred a good Mario64 sequel in its former style, not the disorientating Mario Galaxy for the Wii where you jump from micro-planet to micro-planet with more fancy graphics (IMO sad as the Mario64 concept was one of the best I played so far, the game wasn't really about graphics neither, Gears feels a little like a modern Cabal concept with impressive visuals but lacks freedom I am used to in a shooter).

Quote:

If I change my mind come Friday, I'll let you guys know.

You won't finish Resistance in a day, if you want to be instantly nex-gen impressed IMO play Motorstorm instead. IMO the Resistance art direction works well and the realtime generated cutscenes using the game's ingame engine fits well into the game, the atmosphere throughout the game offers a consistant pre-WW2 feeling and can keep you busy for weeks, a second run through is still lots of fun and multiplayer is strong enough to keep me busy until the game's sequel.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Mar-2007 at 10:00 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Resistance's graphics are good but not the main focuss of the game. The SPEs are strong at calculations and number crunching. There's more to games than just pretty graphics, that's what I wanted to point out after Trezzer's comment and the PS3 is more powerful at this than the XBox 360, I find it funny that apparently Trezzer's comment regarding solely 'excellent vs good graphics' as well as his 'technical background vs mine' seems to comfort you more.

Unlike CTM/CUDA capable GPUs, factor in that some of the 6 available SPUs may cover less flexible G7x GPU.

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@Trezzer

Quote:

Oh, Resident Evil 5 is already coming to 360. As for Final Fantasy - the creator of the series wishes to see it on 360. While I'm not really an FF fan, it would certainly be a biggie for the platform.

RE5? One less reason to add a PS3 to my 360. Multiplatform encourages the gaming not a particular console. See the recent Armor Core 4 pictures there are things the PS3 does better, lighting seems a bit better, and the 360 does better, pictures have less jaggies and better anti-aliasing. But gameplay is the virtually the same on either console so why buy the more expensive console? One can argue the PS3 plays PS2 games but so does my PS2 that's not compelling. One can argue the PS3 plays Blu-Ray but with less then 1% of all DVD sales being HighDef and split between the 2 formats there's lots more to see before this is settled, makes sense to wait another year for a $200 player.

Newsweek published an article about Kutagari's slowness and lack of ability in securing exclusives. CEO Stringer complained publically about the difficulties working with Kutagari, uncommunicative and over budget. Of course we've all seen Kutagari's bullet points and subsequent lack of execution. Undoubtably his actions and inactions have cost Sony their unrivaled #1 spot for gaming they enjoy with the last gen PS2.

IMO Squaresoft is in a great position. They've already made some 360 games so have an idea of how that platform works. Should Sony not pay whatever Square asks to ensure exclusivity they can go multiplatform for Final Fantasy. Should they do that it will likely ensure the PS3 takes up last in the new generation of console sales.

@MikeB

Quote:

The SPEs are strong at calculations and number crunching.

Of course, but then Xbox 360 also has three powerful general purpose cores, a flexible GPU with multi-threaded shaders (processors of sorts) and a more powerful graphics chip that needs less help from the CPU in some cases. I couldn't possibly say which console will max out first and when or how... I just doubt Resistance is something Xbox 360 couldn't do, even with all that AI going on you keep telling us about. I don't know if this is the case, but it the conclusion would fit with all the reviews and reports I have been reading.

Quote:

I find it funny that apparently Trezzer's comment regarding solely 'excellent vs good graphics' as well as 'his technical background vs mine' seems to comfort you more.

I think Trezzer has shown more experience and credibility when assesing technical merits of these systems and comparing multi-platform games, yes. Is he a know-it-all source to trust blindly, of course not. I don't consider him an authority on Resistance, but what he has been saying fits better with the entire image I have on the subject based on other sources as well. If he were to be saying something that wouldn't fit what I've been reading elsewhere I would think differently.

If Trezzer would come out saying PS3 can't do Gears of War I'd doubt him, because I feel PS3 likely can (I don't know, but I guess so) and nothing has been shown to prove otherwise (despite some U.S. launch games lagging on PS3 vs. their Xbox 360 counterparts... but that can be explained by launch rush and Cell learning curve).

Quote:

Great story line, unique weapons.

The story, BTW, is something that makes me interested in this game.

Quote:

You won't finish Resistance in a day, if you want to be instantly nex-gen impressed IMO play Motorstorm instead.

Motorstorm is my number one launch title because of easier accesibility, so if I buy a PS3 Friday and can get that, I'll likely do so. Resistance needs time and I have older games waiting for completion before that anyway, so that probably has to wait.

@MikeB

Quote:

The SPEs are strong at calculations and number crunching. There's more to games than just pretty graphics, that's what I wanted to point out after Trezzer's comment (XBox 360 wouldn't even break a sweat) and the PS3 is more powerful at this than the XBox 360

There's something you don't seem to get let me put it this way.

Mercedes SL600 is an impressive $132K 510 HP automobile. A Chevy Corvette is an impressive $50K 400 HP automobile. But, when they are inserted into conditions, like rush hour with stop and go traffic, each performs equally well. When conditions demand 100Km/hr speeds both have more then sufficent power to maintain their speed. Just because the SL600 has 100 more HP does make it more powerful then the Corvette but unless the conditions demand that extra 100HP the rational for spending the extra cash is mostly moot.

The 360 could handle Resistance the condition doesn't demand the supposedly 2 fold performance advantage, as claimed by Sony*, of the PS3.


* of course the PS2 supposedly had twice the performance of the Xbox and I can't think of a PS2 released game that the Xbox couldn't have handled.

@BrianK

Quote:

Devil May Cry 4 was just announced as multi-platform PS3 and 360.

Like I said before, makes sense if you take into consideration 3rd party development costs.

Some excellent PS3 screenshots:
http://ps3.vggen.com/image.php?game=153&image=ps3/dmc4/dmc4_18.jpg
http://ps3.vggen.com/image.php?game=153&image=ps3/dmc4/dmc4_21.jpg
http://ps3.vggen.com/image.php?game=153&image=ps3/dmc4/dmc4_9.jpg

Quote:

Will the hemoraging of Sony past exclusives end?

Why? We don't know which 3rd parties have exclusivity deals with Sony, if another platform is capable enough and has a large userbase then why not port the game? With regard to Devil May Cry 4, I think this excludes the Nintendo Wii.

Quote:

Final Fantasy? That would be the death blow, IMO.

I don't think so, such a thing would be far from a "death blow". Sure such a thing would create a lot of online rivalry fuss, but would also provide more consumer choice.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Mar-2007 at 11:16 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

I don't think even such a thing would be far from a "death blow".

I agree. I think people should refrain from comments like that - PS3 isn't going anywhere, for that to happen Sony would have to go belly up and I really doubt that. It would be very surprising for PS3 to fail. Now, that doesn't mean it will win either, of course.

@jtsiren

Quote:

I just doubt Resistance is something Xbox 360 couldn't do

And that's not what I said, or did I?

Quote:

I think Trezzer has shown more experience and credibility when assesing technical merits of these systems and comparing multi-platform games, yes

On technical matters I think I have corrected Trezzer more than anyone else posting here. So you prefer comments from someone without actual game experience. Sure Trezzer could write a Resistance: Fall of Man review based on online screenshots and what not....

Quote:

comparing multi-platform games

Based on what were his comparisons and opinions better? Ridge Racer 7 and Final Night Round 3, the two games I didn't agree with him on? The PS3 version of FNR3 won a highly acclaimed movie-related award for its visuals, most reviews agree as well that the PS3 version does indeed look better and think the get into the ring option is a good addition to the game. Regarding RR7 most reviews agree as well, it's a better game than RR6 both in terms of visuals and overall game.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Mar-2007 at 11:19 AM.

@jtsiren

Agreed.

There's definitely less ammo in the PS3 ####nal, but what Sony has going for it is in-house developers. Regardless of whether better racing games come out Gran Turismo 5 will sell like hotcakes simply because it is Gran Turismo. They also had a nice ace up their sleeve with LittleBigPlanet which looks very nice. I'm sure there are other aces we haven't seen a sign of yet.

At the moment the 360 has the upper hand when it comes to exclusives - a recent count was around 80 titles for 360 vs. around 30 for PS3 (and ~55 for Wii IIRC). This is still just the beginning.

As for Gears of War: I don't doubt you could port the game to the PS3. Whether it would look the same is the big question. Perhaps textures would need to be scaled down a bit. After all it was the title that made Microsoft go for 512MB unified ram instead of 256MB.

Oh, Ace Combat 6 was just announced for 360 too. It's not yet known whether it will come for PS3, but I find it likely that it will appear on both. After all it's historically a Playstation title.

This faulty word censorship BS has to stop!

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Mar-2007 at 11:23 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @jtsiren Quote: I just doubt Resistance is something Xbox 360 couldn't do And that's not what I said, or did I?

You said "I think the XBox 360 would have trouble handling the more hectic moments of Resistance", so yes, I think you said Resistance is something Xbox 360 couldn't do. If you didn't mean it like that, by all means, please correct me.

Quote:

Quote: I think Trezzer has shown more experience and credibility when assesing technical merits of these systems and comparing multi-platform games, yes On technical matters I think I have corrected Trezzer more than anyone else posting here. So you prefer comments from someone without actual game experience. Sure Trezzer could write a Resistance: Fall of Man review based on online screenshots and what not....

No, I don't prefer comments from someone without actual game experience. It would be ideal to hear about Resistance from someone with both actual game experience, as well as credible technical knowhow on both platforms - I don't think Trezzer represents that, but I do think he is probably right in saying Resistance would easily run on Xbox 360. That would fit the reporting I've seen.

Quote:

Based on what were his comparisons and opinions better? Ridge Racer 7 and Final Night Round 3, the two games I didn't agree with him on? The PS3 version of FNR3 won a highly acclaimed movie-related award for its visuals, most reviews agree as well that the PS3 version does indeed look better. Regarding RR7 most reviews agree as well, it's a better game than RR6 both in terms of visuals and overall game.

Trezzer explained in another thread himself working as a reviewer. I think he has shown good overall knowledge about current games that gives him some credibility in this regard. That others, like BrianK, seem to agree with him on things like Resistance help, of course.

@MikeB

Quote:

On technical matters I think I have corrected Trezzer more than anyone else posting here.

You have indeed corrected some minor details, which I appreciate, but you have also falsely "corrected" things. As well as making plenty of mistakes of your own.

Quote:

most reviews agree as well that the PS3 version does indeed look better.

Actually they don't.

Quote:

Regarding RR7 most reviews agree as well, it's a better game than RR6 both in terms of visuals and overall game.

It has minor gameplay improvements indeed. It's still basically the same game though - and visuals are practically identical.

Quote:

So you prefer comments from someone without actual game experience.

I probably have more gaming experience than you. By far. I've not had the chance to get a hands-on with Resistance yet, since Sony f**ked over the European market again, remember? That said while I'm not commenting on the gameplay, I can judge the graphics from screenshots and videos - and I trust the average reviewer's opinion more than yours (simply because I know you'll be biased - which is fine as long as I know that).

Personally, I don't know why you guys are comparing Gears of War to Resistance: Fall of Man. They are 2 different styles of game.

I would compare Gow to Resident Evil 4 on the Gamecube as the play styles are similar. As for R:FoM, compare it to whatever the top FPS game on the 360 is.

Other than that, you are just comparing premier titles and in terms of sales, there is no comparison. Ofcourse, compare GoW to Halo and again is Halo the better game because of sales figures?

Epic made a RE4 beater with Gears of War. No need to compare it to an FPS.

On the PC side of things, I believe there was a game that could be played in the third-person or first and switch on the fly. Now that is interesting. Under certain situations, you take advantage of the superior interface for the given situation.

Look for RE5 to try to topple GoW. I'm no fan of FPS because they are all failly simplistic, kill kill kill. That's why the Metroid Prime series has grabbed me. It's a fpa, first-person adventure. Sure there is killing, but there is exploring, puzzles, rpg elements and always an evolving and involving story. Never too dull.

Anyway, is there an FPS on the 360 that is comparable to R:FoM? Until I see a 40-player online 360 FPS, I would say "advantage Sony" for the time being... In the meantime, I congratulate Epic for cloning RE4 without looking like they were cloning RE4.

PS,
RE4 kicks major ass on the GC. Can't wait to see RE:Umbrella Chronicles on the Wii.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Trezzer wrote: @jtsiren There's definitely less ammo in the PS3 ####nal, but what Sony has going for it is in-house developers. Regardless of whether better racing games come out Gran Turismo 5 will sell like hotcakes simply because it is Gran Turismo. They also had a nice ace up their sleeve with LittleBigPlanet which looks very nice. I'm sure there are other aces we haven't seen a sign of yet.

Agreed. It is also this potential that keeps me interested in PS3, now that I feel the performance difference won't be the key (at least not for a while, if ever).

Quote:

At the moment the 360 has the upper hand when it comes to exclusives - a recent count was around 80 titles for 360 vs. around 30 for PS3 (and ~55 for Wii IIRC). This is still just the beginning.

Agreed. I'm drooling for Halo 3 already...

Quote:

As for Gears of War: I don't doubt you could port the game to the PS3. Whether it would look the same is the big question. Perhaps textures would need to be scaled down a bit. After all it was the title that made Microsoft go for 512MB unified ram instead of 256MB.

Well, yeah, that's the problem and benefit with exclusives, one can optimize for the particulars of a system. Memory issues aside (one can do something about those, who knows if it would require toning down textures or what), I think Gears of War would likely run on PS3.

@Lou

I don't know of a 40 player online 360 FPS. I *believe* that is a console first, which is a good thing. That does not make or break a game though It's a nice bullet point none the less.

As for which is the better... There are almost too many to choose from. It's down to personal taste really. Personally I find GRAW 2 quite impressive.

As for comparison between the two - it's all about the visual fidelity (and to some extent immersion). Nothing more.

@jtsiren

Quote:

You said "I think the XBox 360 would have trouble handling the more hectic moments of Resistance", so yes, I think you said Resistance is something Xbox 360 couldn't do. If you didn't mean it like that, by all means, please correct me.

I didn't agree with the "not breaking a sweat" part. Sure with some platform specific alterations, like removing some of the things going on at once and bodies dissapearing, etc I think the game could be done without breaking a sweat (no frame drops) on the XBox 360 (and removing PS3 specific features [and reduction of data to fit on DVD] like 7.1 Audio).

Quote:

Trezzer explained in another thread himself working as a reviewer. I think he has shown good overall knowledge about current games that gives him some credibility in this regard. That others, like BrianK, seem to agree with him on things like Resistance help, of course.

The only ones I read from Trezzer were:

"Gran Turismo 4 PS2

The title really says it all. Next to genre-defining racers like Rallisport Challenge and Project Gotham Racing 2, this title places itself right between two chairs and falls down hard. The title says it all really. GT3 wasn't the improvement one could have hoped for and GT4 is even more disappointing. The graphics are rather lacklustre even considering the elderly hardware. There's no point raving about Gran Turismo just because it was once the kind of racers. It is the king no more. Save your money and spend it elsewhere.

0.0 Presentation
0.0 Graphics
0.0 Sound
0.0 Gameplay
0.0 Lasting Appeal
5.0 OVERALL
(out of 10 / not an average)"

IMO not much in-depth. Average score by the mainstream press 89%.

And Trace Memory (DS) Press average 72%

"I've always been a big adventure fan. I've played pretty much every game I could get my hands on - even the mediocre ones. Trace Memory, however, stands out as being nowhere near ordinary. In fact it is one of the best uses of the DS hardware I've seen to date. It doesn't do this in a particularly flashy manner, but it's done in a manner that suits the game favourably.

The story is, as the IGN review concludes, not the game's strong side. It is more than adequate as a vehicle for puzzle solving. What the game lacks in story it also makes up for in characters. The gallery of personas is varied and lovable and the way the story unfolds is masterfully devised.

Sure, it's far from being the longest adventure ever, but it's something I'd recommend heartily to adventure fans old and young. I can't wait to see what they come up with next."

8.5 out of 10.

What more reviews did Trezzer write you are so much impressed with?

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Mar-2007 at 12:00 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 20-Mar-2007 at 11:44 AM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Trezzer wrote: @Lou I don't know of a 40 player online 360 FPS. I *believe* that is a console first, which is a good thing. That does not make or break a game though It's a nice bullet point none the less. As for which is the better... There are almost too many to choose from. It's down to personal taste really. Personally I find GRAW 2 quite impressive. As for comparison between the two - it's all about the visual fidelity (and to some extent immersion). Nothing more.

We understand the visual fidelity argument, but some genres may be easier to extract that sort of thing than others.

In Gow, like RE4, only what is happening around a short distanvce to the player is actally rendered, so it may be easier to achieve visual fidelity. In an FPS with 40 characters and a huge environment, alot more is going on and has to be rendered. Please take that into account. The larger the environment, the less detail they can put into textures.

Resident Evil 4 on the GC was impressive because the enviroment was kept relatively small even though it streamed in someparts but you'll notice that action was minimized during those parts.

PS,
Now that I have defended Sony (who called me a fanboy anyway), I've also knocked the Wii here: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22654&forum=17