@MikeB

Those aren't full reviews. I still stand by Gran Turismo 4 as being an utter and complete disappointment - and I was a fan of the series. Either way, I have no reason - monetary or other - to suck up to any developer or publisher unlike some (most) of the mainstream press publications.

As for Another Code - that's not even far from the average. Remember it is an average. And especially RPG and adventure genres tend to suffer in mainstream reviews unless they're as big names as Zelda or Final Fantasy (which wouldn't get below 85% pretty much no matter how bad or formularic they are).

Sometimes you don't agree with the mainstream press - but that doesn't mean you're necessarily wrong. Have a look at Enchanted Arms on metacritic and see how much the reviews vary. I bought it after IGN wrote a thorough review and subsequently reviewed it myself (in what I think is the most comprehensive and thorough review on the web) - which caused other RPG fans to pick it up and enjoy it.

If you want to see reviews, here they are. Not that you'd get much of the site due to the language barrier. And as long as you don't read the comments that go with the grades, I suggest you don't go comparing scores.

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Mar-2007 at 01:13 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Mar-2007 at 12:56 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Mar-2007 at 12:55 PM.

@MikeB

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Sure with some platform specific alterations, like removing some of the things going on at once and bodies dissapearing, etc I think the game could be done without breaking a sweat (no frame drops) on the XBox 360 (and removing PS3 specific features [and reduction of data to fit on DVD] like 7.1 Audio).

I still find it likely, reading the reports that I have read, that Xbox 360 would likely handle Resistance as is just fine.

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What more reviews did Trezzer write you are so much impressed with?

I didn't mean I was impressed with Trezzer, I meant I give him more credit than you because I feel he has been more consistent (in these threads!) compared to other reports I've read and I feel he plays more and knows more about technical details than you have shown to. It was a comparison between your postings and his, which was a comparison you started when you commented on my responses. I also said others, like BrianK, seem to agree with Trezzer e.g. on Resistance.

If you don't feel it is fair for me to put a bit more value on Trezzer's technical analysis on the merits of PS3 vs. Xbox 360 than yours, fine. But that is how I see it at this time. It doesn't mean there wouldn't be other sources I value even more than him, naturally there are. If and when he says something inconsistent with what I read elsewhere, I treat that bit of information as suspect like I would do about anything else that I have a hard time confirming at least on some level.

Just because he said GoW might have trouble running on PS3 due to memory does not make me run everywhere repeating this as fact. I just think overall on these forums he has made more sense technically than you have, you haven't really been able to assure me as to why you feel PS3 is technically so much superior (it may be superior, but you seem to think it is far more superior than most current reporting does). Last time I asked you said you couldn't tell due to confidentiality reasons...

@MikeB

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We don't know which 3rd parties have exclusivity deals with Sony, if another platform is capable enough and has a large userbase then why not port the game?

Simply put -- Great for consumers, promotes console choice. Great for developers, allows them to sell their games to a larger number of users. Bad for Sony because had the game been exclusive to the PS3 it would be a reason to not use the 360, now the lower cost option - 360 - is an option too.

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but would also provide more consumer choice.

Yup the customer can now choose PS3 or 360. Great for consumer choice again bad for Sony because they lost another reason that the PS3 would be the only choice if the user wanted to play that game.

@MikeB

The PS3 is clearly not superior because it doesn't have an '11'!

@Trezzer

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You have indeed corrected some minor details, which I appreciate

I appreciate your input as well, as long as you keep your head cool. Within this thread this seems to be the case.

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but you have also falsely "corrected" things.

Like what?

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Actually they don't

Mainstream press:

1) "Graphically, the PS3 version definitely has an edge over its next gen cousin, with the character models showing more detail than ever before."

"Adding a new ‘Get in The Ring’ mode which allows you to fight some of boxing’s best from a first person perspective was a great new addition, and it doesn’t feel tacked on for novelty value. The fights become even more visceral in this mode, with flashing lights accompanying the punches you get hit with (like real life), a red and black hue filling the edges of your screen and reducing your field of vision when you get cut or your eyes start swelling shut, and heavy breathing audibly evident as a grueling battle rages into the middle and late rounds."

2) "I played both versions, and though the PS3 one is hitting far, far later than the 360 version, it's obvious the time spent learning the hardware went to good use. The lighting is better, the sweat (quickly becoming one of the next-gen trademarks) is better, and the tweaks make it different enough that the PS3 version feels like the superior one. So there, console warriors, you have your system vs. system fodder."

3) "Immediately smacking you across the face are some of the best graphics known to man. If the 360 version was hot, this one is absolutely boiling! Character models have realistic skin and muscle tone, and reflect sweat in an almost uncomfortably uncanny way"

4) Those really looking for PS3-vindication will be able to cite slightly improved lighting as an improvement, as well as what some swear is more realistic-looking perspiration. Yes, people, the sweat looks better.

5) "Fight Night Round 3 for the Playstation 3 vastly improves upon the already-great visuals (although it has some hiccups compared to the 360 version), but doesn’t feel like a true sequel thanks to mostly unchanged gameplay mechanics."

"This Playstation 3 version features a new Get In The Ring camera angle, which puts you directly in your boxer's shoes with a first-person view. It's actually pretty nice and does a good job of changing up the gameplay and in-ring tactics."

6) "As a whole, this PS3 port looks ever-so-slightly more appealing than last year's Xbox 360 version."

"Aside from that, there's not much to differentiate the PS3 version of Fight Night Round 3 from its Xbox 360 predecessor. If you've got to choose between one version or the other, it's hard to go wrong, though the PS3's Get in the Ring mode is a tempting bonus."

7) "There is a minor graphical difference between the versions, with the PS3 entry looking a bit cleaner, a bit smoother, but other than that identical."

"The PS3 version allows you to play the entire game from the first-person perspective, contrary to standard ringside view featured in previous versions. And this is incredibly well done."

"The PS3 version reaches levels of immersion that the 360 never came close to, and it's all thanks to the beautifully done first-person camera."

8) "Boxers look exactly like their real-life counterparts. EA also spent some time with the visuals of the boxers on the PS3 and they look like they are crisp with a bit greater detail than the 360 version. Finally the boxers have lost that plastic action figure look due to I believe some of the lighting. Where the PS3 version suffers in lower lighting like in the 360 version, it is a benefit to me as finally the boxers don’t look like a GI Joe action figure. Their faces are perfect, and their body styles are equally impressive. "

"EA added enough things to this version of Fight Night for even the 360 owners that own a PS3 should give this game a rent "

9) "The graphics are close, though the PS3 has slightly better graphics when played on a high-def television. To say that the Get in the Ring feature, unique to the PS3, is a defining attribute of this version would be spot on. Sure, there are other features for the PS3, but the Get in the Ring steals the show."

"The PS3 online component is far more robust than the 360, and there is a bit of a graphical upgrade, utilizing the high-def functionality of the system much better than the 360. The Get in the Ring feature doesn’t just put you in the boxer’s shoes, you see the fight through his eyes, and the ring movement is terrific, allowing gamers to really feel like they are part of the fight."

"With the added components it is fair to say that Fight Night Round 3 is an overall better title than its 360 counterpart. The visual enhancements are minor, but the online is more robust and the Get in the Ring gives the game a whole new feel."

10) "As I said in my Xbox 360 review, it is appropriate that we start off with the graphic section as it is the aspect that got the greatest overhaul for this title. The Xbox 360 version had fantastic normal mapping with great texture work on every surface. The PS3 version has the same fantastic normal mapping, but the extra 10 months has given EA Canada a bit more time to put additional detail into this version."

MikeB: So the mainstream generally speaking agrees that FNR3 on the PS3 does indeed look better than the XBox 360 version and the Get in the Ring option is a good added feature.

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It has minor gameplay improvements indeed. It's still basically the same game though - and visuals are practically identical.

Apart from the minor gameplay improvements:

1) "Ridge Racer 6 already looked very good last year, and Ridge Racer 7 expands on this by adding in more details to the older courses."
2) "The game also has sharper image quality (you can play the game in up to 1080p) and more vibrant color in comparison to Ridge Racer 6."
3) "But while the older courses only look like a small step up from last year's game, the new courses look better and have a lot more detail." (6 new tracks)
4) "The cars themselves also look sharper, with better-looking textures."
5) "Online racing is also back and now displays more stats and details about the top-ranked players from around the world."
6) "The game's sense of speed also seems greater, and using nitrous now produces an effect to make it appear even faster than before."
7) "Ridge Racer 7 also has a brand new soundtrack, which is easily the best Ridge Racer soundtrack in YEARS."
8) "You can also partially install the game on the Playstation 3 hard drive to reduce load times."
9) "The other major improvement comes in the form of online play, which is far superior to the mode found in Ridge Racer 6 a year ago. The most notable addition is Team Racing in both full-scale and pair forms, which feature a host of new gameplay mechanics and concepts to support the teamwork-focused dynamic."
10) "there are some great reflective effects on the pavement certainly not present in 2005's Xbox 360 game"

MikeB: If owning both platforms of the two versions, IMO the PS3 version would be the one to get.



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I probably have more gaming experience than you.

Probably, usually I only play the games which receive lofty reviews and I have very little experience with the PS2.

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I've not had the chance to get a hands-on with Resistance yet, since Sony f**ked over the European market again, remember?

I think your "hatred" for Sony shines through here. In any case delays would mostly effect those who are actually intending to buy the platform.

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I trust the average reviewer's opinion more than yours (simply because I know you'll be biased - which is fine as long as I know that)

I am biased like anyone else, but the average game reviewer is also biased and regarding some articles seem heavily influenced by the mood of the day (for instance negativety towards Blu-Ray and/or the PS3). I know it's hard to back-paddle when a reviewer states the PS3 is crap, but I think this will happen eventually or they will neglect their prior statements and go on as nothing happened.

Last edited by MikeB on 21-Mar-2007 at 01:13 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 20-Mar-2007 at 02:56 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

7) "Ridge Racer 7 also has a brand new soundtrack, which is easily the best Ridge Racer soundtrack in YEARS."

This is clearly false. The 360 has the ability to import music into any game from the console, or iPod, or Media Center. That means the Ridge Racer 'soundtrack' is the music I like best. So while my soundtrack is Lamb of God someone else's may likely be The Pussycat Dolls. Come on what can be a better soundtrack then my favorite music? There can't, well unless the listener's favorite music happens to be the music that RR7 developers made. Sorry but definite win for the 360.

@BrianK

That's an OS feature and can't be pinned on game developers or their games, the game is judged on the included soundtracks and not based on your personal music library. This feature like background downloading was added to the XBox 360 after release, who knows what a PS3 firmware/OS upgrades will bring us? OK, I have a few guesses.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Mar-2007 at 03:09 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK That's an OS feature and can't be pinned on game developers or their games, the game is judged on the included soundtracks and not based on your personal music library. This feature like background downloading was added to the XBox 360 after release, who knows what a PS3 firmware/OS upgrades will bring us? OK, I have a few guesses.

Sony's software feature set is always lagging. It's had quite a few updates already. For this reason, I don't expect things like HOME to be as cohesive as they make it out to be. I also don't expect that to roll out on time. If it does, I don't think it will deliver what is promised initially. It still sounds like the E3 announcement of "tilt" functionality. I don't think it will have the 3rd party support right away.

One thing you can say about Nintendo is they employ the K.I.S.S. principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid). Not so many features, but they work and upgrade gradually over time. Kind of like the evolution of the PC vs. Mac & Amiga...

@MikeB

Quote:

the game is judged on the included soundtracks and not based on your personal music library

But my own personal library is THE soundtrack.

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who knows what a PS3 firmware/OS upgrades will bring us? OK, I have a few guesses

So do I my guesses are one's to catch up with the 360 and Wii.

@MikeB

That's an impressive list of quotes that I honestly can't be bothered to dig up equivalents to. I'm sure you'll consider that a victory, but actually I'm just too tired (even writing this is a chore) after an extensive physiotherapy session to be bothered - something I'm sure you'll be able to relate to .

Though: Obviously we remember the results of the fight night between PS3 and 360 with Fight Night Round 3, where the unanimous result was that the Xbox 360 version looked better - and all reviews I've read also mentioned some frame rate issues with the PS3 version that weren't evident in the 360 version as well as longer load times that made the create-a-fighter mode virtually useless. I also agree that the first person addition in FNR3 is nice.

Regardless, if a PS3 owner doesn't already have the games for 360, they are certainly fine games that are worth a purchase if you like the respective genres.

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I think your "hatred" for Sony shines through here. In any case delays would mostly effect those who are actually intending to buy the platform.

I prefer "disgust" or "loathing". It's a quite rational choice based on years of ludicrous statements and behaviour from Sony as a whole.

And yes, I'm not really bothered by the delay since I've more or less written Sony off for how they treat their customers - including their broken launch promises. Now they won't even be able to live up to their promises regarding the launch line-up. Rainbow Six: Vegas, Splinter Cell: Double Agent, F.E.A.R. and Oblivion won't be available at the European launch. GRAW 2 has also been pushed back.

@Trezzer

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where the unanimous result was that the Xbox 360 version looked better

No, that wasn't the case. A handful of people posting here thought so, for example DaveyD acknowledged the PS3 screenshot did look better and he thinks his XBox 360 is the better gaming platform.

At least the VES visual experts awarded the PS3 version!



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I prefer "disgust" or "loathing"

I think this reflects on your debates, you seem to be more disgusted about Sony than even I myself dislike Microsoft's business practices and track record.

@MikeB

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No, that wasn't the case

Yes it was. I'm not talking about the Gamespot comparison that we discussed here. It was a one night event with lots and lots of 360s and PS3s running side by side on 40+" TVs and people were asked what they thought of each version.

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I think this reflects on your debates, you seem to be more disgusted about Sony than even I myself dislike Microsoft's business practices and track record.

Oh we share the Microsoft business practice dislike (and in some cases disgust). I see them as two evils, but one of them deliver what they promise. Luckily that also happens to be the cheapest solution.

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Mar-2007 at 04:20 PM.

I wonder if this is an April Fool's joke or not.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/20/hdmi-enabled-black-xbox-360-in-late-april-for-479/2#comments

Xbox 360 w/HDMI connector and cable in black case with a 120GB hard drive for $479 out in April... Still no WiFi, still no hi-def media player...

@Lou

It's certainly a mean looking beast at least. I wish they'd swap the plastic tray for brushed aluminium or similar though.

It's relatively pricey, but I guess that price will more or less correspond to the launch price here considering the current cost of the 360 Premium. It's not all that tempting to upgrade if you already have a current model, but I'd be seriously considering the black model if I were to buy my first. I'm more likely to get a bigger drive if/when I actually have something to use it for

@Trezzer

I think for poops and giggles they should offer one with an HD-DVD drive and Wi-Fi for $549...

@Trezzer

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It was a one night event with lots and lots of 360s and PS3s running side by side on 40+" TVs and people were asked what they thought of each version.

Any references? Who, what, where?

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but one of them deliver what they promise. Luckily that also happens to be the cheapest solution

The PS2 is the cheapest. And are you certain the PS3 will not deliver in most part what is planned and if so why?

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It's relatively pricey, but I guess that price will more or less correspond to the launch price here considering the current cost of the 360 Premium

I think they won't provide a 60GB harddrive option, as consumers would easily do the math on what they've spend on their XBox 360, thus making the PS3 look less pricey.

On the other hand if they are serious about high definition downloads 120GB would be no luxury, full quality HD-DVD or Blu-Ray content would take up loads of gigabytes. They would also need significant server upgrades to download the content. Ideally content would be streamed, but even at DVD quality this would prove to be quite a hurdle.

@MikeB

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The PS2 is the cheapest. And are you certain the PS3 will not deliver in most part what is planned and if so why?

Please stop doing this, the PS2 is not in this generation. If we are comparing across generations, we could say that the NES is the cheapest of all and you can buy games for it for a quid each. The 360 is the cheapest NG console, the Wii is still overpriced in comparison to its target price ($99) and is not comparable to the other two technologically (even if I love the remote and playability).

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@MikeB

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Any references? Who, what, where?

I both linked to it and referenced it several times in the previous threads. Here's one of the reprints. I no longer have the link to the original at hand, but it looks like a verbatim copy anyway.

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The PS2 is the cheapest.

I'm still waiting for that to deliver on what Sony promised...

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And are you certain the PS3 will not deliver in most part what is planned

Does the PS3 have multiple HDMI outputs? Does it have several gigabit ethernet ports? We can chew on that for starters.

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full quality HD-DVD or Blu-Ray content would take up loads of gigabytes.

Downloadable content is more likely to remain at 720p for the time being. Of course that also means that a hi-def movie will typically be 4-7 GB depending on length.

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think they won't provide a 60GB harddrive option

I should hope not. No reason to not stick with the current sweet spot in 2.5" drives.

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They would also need significant server upgrades to download the content.

I'm sure upgrades are rolled out in due time to coincide with the offerings. I'm rarely having problems with low download speeds - it's typically only when a big title is released as a demo and everyone is trying to download it at the same time.

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Ideally content would be streamed, but even at DVD quality this would prove to be quite a hurdle.

Not at all. With a little buffering at first dvd quality is very streamable - after all you're not going to be using MPEG2 for streaming. If you have a fast enough connection hi-def streaming should be theoretically possible too. It requires approximately a 10Mb connection, but with a bit of pre-caching the relatively usual 8Mb lines should suffice. I'm sure it'll be no worse than having to sit through anti-piracy ads, FBI warnings and other non-skip material that companies put in to bother customers who pay for their movies instead of pirating them.

@AMiGR

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Please stop doing this, the PS2 is not in this generation.

You should tell this to the 323,500 North American people / families who bought a PS2 last February and the console topped the software charts above the XBox 360 and even handhelds. I am sure we will see excellent sales for March as well.

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we could say that the NES is the cheapest of all

This console isn't being produced anymore.

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The 360 is the cheapest NG console

Not in terms of money, the Nintendo Wii and PS2 are cheaper. If you take into consideration what you get for your money, the PS3 is cheapest and sold well below actual costs.

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is not comparable to the other two technologically

I agree the PS2 would make a closer comparison to the Wii than to the PS3.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Mar-2007 at 08:46 PM.

@Trezzer

I've been streaming 1080 off Apple's trailer website with a 10Mbps connection.

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