@AMiGR

Quote:

For example:

_________________

@MikeB

Quote:

Do you see dragons and soldiers battling in that demo?

No, which was exactly my point: It's predictable. My other point was that in 1-2 years, this kind of detail will be the norm, *with* dragons fighting soldiers.

_________________

@AMiGR

Quote:

There is a push towards hardware physics units, like the Ageia PhysX (sp?), but NVidia and ATi argue that today's GPUs can handle physics processing loads fine, as can be seen with Middlewares like Havoc FX (which runs on the GPU).

They claimed GPUs can do physics but it's very basic, only for effects so far. They easily have the raw processing power, but physics involves some complex stuff which GPUs are useless at. Cell is more general purpose so can handle the more complex stuff. The PhysX chip is actually very like Cell, more so than a GPU.

_________________
Whyzzat?

@minator

Yes, I personally have far more faith in the PhysX chip for physics simulations, dedicated hardware is the way forward. But I will be glad to be proven wrong.

_________________

Interesting new Sony patents regarding a new controller device.

Basically it's some kind of Virtual Reality glove replacement with vibrational feedback apparently mostly geared towards gaming.

"It should be appreciated that some of the embodiments described herein include a device that fits completely within a user's hand, without the need to be attached to the user's hand or wrapped around the user's fingers or even worn by a user such as a glove."

"In one embodiment, a user's finger movements generate signals for controlling objects displayed on a monitor associated with a computing unit that receives the generated signals. For example, the objects may be associated with a video game application where the computing unit is a video game console. One skilled in the art will appreciate that above mentioned embodiments are applicable to a game console running the video games as well as on-line video gaming where a user accesses the video games from a server. Thus, the computing unit can be a game console or a server accessed through a distributed network, such as the Internet."

More info

@Tomas

Let's get this straight.

I would say my first response to you was quite neutral in tone.

I said I hadn't seen articles about resupplies and I asked if other people could look into that.
I have tried, but so far I still haven't seen any numbers on resupplies for the UK.
I also said that it didn't mean the UK wasn't resupplied.

Clear?

After that you respond that the numbers I used for the calculation can't be correct. That's where you stopped being a messenger and started to join the discussion.
And I have the feeling you were so busy defending the article, that you assumed I said the UK wasn't resupplied, which I didn't. But since I didn't have these numbers, I couldn't include them in the calculation.

I don't mind if you continue to say the UK is seeing significant numbers of PS3's on the shelves, as long as you provide a credible source of information about resupplies for the UK.

Do note, I'm not saying you are wrong, but so far I haven't seen any credible information that proves you're right.

@AMiGR

Quote:

Anyway, it still is interesting to see but claims that this is "well beyond the XBox 360's league" are pretty ignorant. Will we see PS3 games that are "well beyond the XBox 360's league"? I do not know, if people manage to fully utilise the SPUs, which will happen given enough time, possibly, it's not really something I rule out at all. Depends on many factors, including the actual capabilities of the RSX and Xenos.

I believe the PS3 might give us games beyond the 360. Well? Unlikely for the the vast majority we'll see a handful at best. The performance between these 2 consoles seem to be closer then the performance difference between the PS2 and Xbox.

MikeB likes to state how the SPUs can help the RSX he does neglect that on the 360 it's the other way around the Xenos can help out the Xenon. One definitely sees some differences in the approaches to gaming on these 2 consoles. The company that can provide tools and assistance which enable gamers to get quicker to market, save costs thereby increasing profits, are going to have an impact no doubt.

Both computers and consoles have multicore/multithreading unlike that which developers have had to deal with in the past. They really are barely walking on the enablement of multithreaded gaming. This is the future and it's good that both consoles have this sort of arrangement as developers will have to deal with it.

As for PCs vs PS3. The higher end still likely has the PS3 beat. The dual processors w/ quad cores running dual SLI G80 cards give the PS3 a run. Now this arrangement is more expensive but Moore's law has taught us that prices half and performance double on a good frequency. The PS3 is going to stay static in 5 years it'll still be the same hardware. The PC will not. Undoubtably any price performance for the PS3 is short lived and likely the lowest cost PCs will beat the PS3 on this measure in 2 years time if not sooner.

@jiyong

Quote:

Again my "friend" Lou, you have a strange memory. Care to repeat your accusation again?

Where as MikeB is more of a pacifist PS3 supporter, you are just a sick extremist. Rather than analyze my every keystroke, why don't you get a hobby.

The PS3 is available to you now. Do you own it yet? If so - play it. Or are you bored already a couple of weeks after launch?

If you don't own it yet - what's stopping you? Is it the price?

Since you are assuming "Premium", it's an assumption and that is in a way putting words in my mouth, I gave no specifics. You hunt me down for casual comments I make about the cost of Blu-ray players come this Christmas. Remember, they are already $600 standalone players and there are $700 B-R burners for the PC. The Xbox Elite is to be $480... So is a B-R player going to cost $300, $400 or $480 by this Christmas?

Only you will actually care.

And this is my point - why do you care so much what I said? Like I said, get a hobby.
Do you think you'll change my opinion of Sony and the PS3? Not going to happen. So what do you hope to gain?

I have owned Sony hardware. It sucked. I had NO problems with Nintendo hardware.
Reading this thread about the lawsuits for poor hardware that Sony put out hasn't sunk in yet has it? Sure the PS3 is running great today. Tell me how it's running in a year or 2 then we'll see if anything's really change with Sony's quality...

ex[ected US NPD numbers to chew on for March:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=13530

Wii: 400,000
360: 250,000
PS2: 250,000
DS: 250,000
PSP: 215,000
PS3: 165,000

I expect April's 360 numbers to drop drastically due to the announcement of the Elite version coming soon.

Note to jiyong: Did I just make another prediction that you will obsessively keep track of?

@Lou

Quote:

Remember, they are already $600 standalone players and there are $700 B-R burners for the PC. The Xbox Elite is to be $480... So is a B-R player going to cost $300, $400 or $480 by this Christmas?

Sony announced a $499 player coming this Christmas it's closer to DVD size then their current BR player. Online retailers can be found under List for electronics I'm doubtful the BR will be any different in that aspect. Of course there are the Christmas sales which again will likely see BR player sales.

Quote:

Like I said, get a hobby.

Being a thorn isn't a good hobby?

@jiyong

Quote:

After that you respond that the numbers I used for the calculation can't be correct. That's where you stopped being a messenger and started to join the discussion.

What i meant was that it did not match up with the first batch numbers. If the numbers in the article i linked to are correct, then they must have had some sort of resupply or the stores would have been out of stock. I was not doubting your numbers regarding the first supply at all, is just that they must have had a refill if the article is right.

And no, i do know for a fact that this article is 100% correct.
I just found it interesting, after all the talk from MikeB about the sales being so strong, while this article says that the case is currently complete opposite.

Possibly a positive sign for consumers. Microsoft in the Netherlands has finally admitted that it's possible XBox 360s during normal use do indeed scratch discs!

http://kassa.vara.nl/portal?_scr=kassa_artikel&number=3227123

After over a thousand complaints and Microsoft denying the issue Kassa appointed hardware professionals to conduct extensive testing. In labratory conditions the results were obvious, the XBox 360s with TSST-drives (the only version tested) did indeed scratch discs.

Microsoft's acknowledgement of the issue IMO is a victory for consumers, but Microsoft still tries to cover up its prior allegations (consumers not taking good care), claiming the tests did not provide enough insight on the problem at the time. But everyone who watched the show or reads the internet regarding the issue, IMO knows this to be incorrect.

Last edited by MikeB on 15-Apr-2007 at 05:25 PM.

@ BrianK

Quote:

MikeB likes to state how the SPUs can help the RSX he does neglect that on the 360 it's the other way around the Xenos can help out the Xenon.

There's no SPE equivalent present in the XBox 360. The Xenon is more like a more usual triple core CPU. The CPU isn't able to match the uses where the Cell excells 30-fold or more compared to usual CPUs. Maybe not that strange as there's a difference of billions dollars regarding the costs of R&D.

@Tomas

Quote:

I just found it interesting, after all the talk from MikeB about the sales being so strong, while this article says that the case is currently complete opposite.

I stated that I expected the European launch to be strong, I have proven to be right and IMO those who claimed the launch to be a disaster or bad were proven to be wrong without a reasonable doubt.

Like I stated before I expect the first real next gen battle to take place during christmas 2007.

Last edited by MikeB on 15-Apr-2007 at 06:51 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

There's no SPE equivalent present in the XBox 360. The Xenos is more like a usual triple core CPU. The CPU isn't able to match the uses where the Cell excells 30-fold or more compared to usual CPUs. Maybe not that strange as there's a difference of billions dollars regarding the costs of R&D.

The Xenon CPU is a 3-core dual instruction issue (6 hardware thread) CPU with one dual instruction issue 128-bit vector processing unit per core, so for general computing, it's much more powerful than the Cell, the Cell's strength are the SPUs but keep in mind that they are not the solution to everything nor can they be used on every single problem game programming faces. As I said, I do not rule out the possibility that the PS3 may get games that cannot be done on the 360 further down the road but do not be naive enough to underestimate the Xenos/Xenon combination so grossly.

_________________

@AMiGR

Quote:

but do not be naive enough to underestimate the Xenos/Xenon combination so grossly

AMiGR why call me naive, what's really the benefit of this towards this discussion? IMO your prior aims to paint me of as someone lacking intelligence (while in fact I have been right so far on most occasions) when I don't agree with you only reflects badly on yourself!

I already stated the XBox 360 still has a lot of untapped potential. But despite the XBox 360 development is easier to get into for developers, two games hailed as great achievements for the platform before the release of Gear of War were Final Night Round 3 and Oblivion, both have been improved (apart from worse loading times for FNR3, on the other hand with Oblivion the heavily reduced loading times) while not being designed around the PS3's way of doing things at all. Objectively the PS3 has a lot more raw power under the hood than the XBox 360 offers.

@AMiGR

Quote:

The water shader looks very good from an angle and from a distance but not that good close up when looked at from above.

I haven't seen water in this sort of game being done this realistic!

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/belvedere351/lairwat.gif

Last edited by MikeB on 15-Apr-2007 at 09:26 PM.

@MikeB

Sorry, this may be a language barrier, I am not calling you naive "don't be naive" is a phrase. Anyway, I do not think you are not intelligent, I just do not agree with you and we just have different styles.

Quote:

I already stated the XBox 360 still has a lot of untapped potential. But despite the XBox 360 development is easier to get into for developers, two games hailed as great achievements for the platform before the release of Gear of War were Final Night Round 3 and Oblivion, both have been improved (apart from worse loading times for FNR3, on the other hand with Oblivion the heavily reduced loading times) while not being designed around the PS3's way of doing things at all. Objectively the PS3 has a lot more raw power under the hood than the XBox 360 offers.

As far as the SPUs go, true, it does have more theoretical power than the 360. However, I am not sure whether the SPUs will be that far more powerful than the Xenon in *games* applications, especially considering that the SPUs will be filling in for the RSX and the Xenos will be filling in for the Xenon. It's a bizarre mix. We shall have to see.

Last edited by AMiGR on 15-Apr-2007 at 07:49 PM.

_________________

@MikeB

It's using normal mapping and looks quite cool at an angle, as I said. There is no real physics simulation in the water as far as I can see, an object entering the water would 'cause waves continuously, not just when the first part hits the water.

_________________

@AMiGR

Quote:

There is no real physics simulation in the water as far as I can see, an object entering the water would 'cause waves continuously, not just when the first part hits the water.

I think the most rippling should take place when the snake hits the ocean and when the tail goes under.

Factor 5:

"Our water physics are exceptional to say the least, our oceans have real waves and dropping a pebble in the water will cause rippling and possibly a splash."

@MikeB

I'm sorry, could you please change the picture to a link, for our users that don't have broadband? 4.1 MB is quite annoying if you're stuck on 56k

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power