@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: Well except to the pocket book. Typically Dolby TrueHD receivers are more expensive then their PCM alternatives. Users thinking it best to upgrade to a Dolby TrueHD so their sound from Blu-Ray is converted on the receiver are wasting cash as they're only getting PCM. For many that upgrade isn't going to do what they thought it would. Definitely something Sony should have been clearer about as the PS3 doesn't output HDMI 1.3 sound just video, and even the video is lackin as no games use 1.3 and few to none movies.

Is this also true for the audio out of the audio-out of the PS3?

@jiyong

Quote:

Is this also true for the audio out of the audio-out of the PS3?

A bit of head scratching on your question but I think I understood what you were asking. If the audio out outputted DTS-HD or TrueHD it wouldn't matter as the HDMI 1.3 standard is to do that via the HDMI cable. More directly answering your question the audio output outputs DTS in 5.1, no DTS-HD 7.1, PCM in 7.1, no TrueHD, or Dolby Digital 5.1, same as the HDMI cable does. I believe DTS-HD 7.1 and TrueHD, are only allowable via a HDMI connection in their raw bitstream form and are part of the HDMI 1.3 requirement. HDMI v1.2 allows SACD to output in DSD and the PS3 can't do that either so audio is really HDMI v1.1.

Last edited by BrianK on 10-May-2007 at 05:35 AM.

Japanese hardware sales, Apr. 23 - Apr. 29

- DS Lite: 255,971 +83,612 (48.51%)
- Wii: 102,522 +24,609 (31.59%)
- PSP: 33,860 +4,401 (14.94%)
- PS3: 12,791 +1,791 (16.28%)
- PS2: 12,584 +1,186 (10.41%)
- Xbox 360: 3,162 +855 (37.06%)
- Game Boy Micro: 630 +181 (40.31%)
- GBA SP: 495 -365 (42.44%)
- Gamecube: 167 -99 (37.22%)
- DS Phat: 92 +11 (13.58%)
- GBA: 0 -55 (100.00%)

With no games in the top 50, I'm suprised at the increase in PS3 sales. Mabye some Japanese are buying them just to play movies... The 360 has 2 games in the top 30 and the increase in sales reflect this. With 100+k unit sales for the Wii, I wonder if production has increased already. Previously, Nintendo was supplying ~75k units/week to Japan.

@Lou

Quote:

Mabye some Japanese are buying them just to play movies...

Likely this is the case. I believe the attach rate (games per console) is .8 in Japan for the PS3. It may have changed from that but at least one time in our recent past more total PS3s were stold then total PS3 games. Which will be interesting for when cheaper Blu-Ray players come out the PS3 sales will probably drop.

from www.gamesarefun.com :

Japanese software sales for April 30 - March 6:

(Last week) #. Platform - Title - Publisher - This week's sales (Total sales) - Weeks on sale

1. (1) NDS - Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings - Square-Enix - 109,000 (383,000) - 2nd week
2. (3) Wii - Super Paper Mario - Nintendo - 90,000 (310,000) - 3rd week
3. (4) Wii - Wii Sports - Nintendo - 85,000 (1,544,000) - 23rd week
4. (-) NDS - Yoshi's Island DS - Nintendo - 59,000 (791,000) - 9th week
5. (6) Wii - Wii Play - Nintendo - 59,000 (1,279,000) - 23rd week
6. (8) NDS - Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis - Nintendo - 58,000 (233,000) - 4th week
7. (5) Wii - Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree - Nintendo - 55,000 (97,000) - 2nd week
8. (-) NDS - New Super Mario Bros. - Nintendo - 52,000 (4,420,000) - 50th week
9. (2) NDS - Momotarou Dentetsu DS: Tokyo & Japan - Hudson - 46,000 (125,000) - 2nd week
10. (-) NDS - Brain Training 2 - Nintendo - 44,000 (4,238,000) - 72nd week

Total top 10 sales: 657,000 (down 60,645 from last week)
Last week's sales: 717,645


11. (09) NDS - Phoenix Wright 4 - Capcom - 4th week
12. (20) NDS - Mario Kart DS - Nintendo - 74th week
13. (15) NDS - More English Training - Nintendo - 6th week
14. (10) NDS - Panel de Pon DS - Nintendo - 2nd week
15. (19) NDS - Brain Training for Adults - Nintendo - 104th week
16. (22) NDS - Animal Crossing: Wild World - Nintendo - 77th week
17. (16) NDS - Prof. Layton and the Mysterious Village - Level 5 - 22nd week
18. (29) NDS - General Knowledge Training - Nintendo - 28th week
19. (34) NDS - Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker - Square Enix - 15th week
20. (30) NDS - English Training - Nintendo - 68th week
21. (26) NDS - Word Puzzle Mojipittan DS - Bandai Namco - 8th week
22. (23) PSP - Monster Hunter Freedom 2 - Capcom - 11th week
23. (36) NDS - Pokemon Diamond - Nintendo - 31st week
24. (41) NDS - Pokemon Pearl - Nintendo - 31st week
25. (17) PSP - Final Fantasy - Square Enix - 3rd week
26. (28) PS2 - Pro Baseball Spirits 4 - Konami - 6th week
27. (18) PS2 - Persona 3: Fes - Atlus - 3rd week
28. (47) NDS - Tamagotchi no Appare! Niji-Venture - Bandai Namco - 6th week
29. (07) Wii - One Piece: Unlimited Adventure - Bandai Namco - 2nd week
30. (38) NDS - Kanji Test - Rocket Company - 32nd week

My comments:
Nice staying power with Super Paper Mario. Top 21 games are for Nintendo platforms. No PS3 or 360 games in the top 30. Hardware numbers due tomorrow.

Somebody thinks the 360 could beat the PS3 in Folding@Home thanks to the better gpu making up for the weaker cpu:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39508

Last edited by Lou on 10-May-2007 at 10:55 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Somebody thinks the 360 could beat the PS3 in Folding@Home thanks to the better gpu making up for the weaker cpu:

Looking at what F@H is doing on the PC vs the PS3 vs the GPU it appears that the calculations it's doing are not exactly the same.

See http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-ATI.html
'Sony has developed an analogous core for the PS3’s Cell processor ' that's to the streaming core of the GPUs. CPU, PS3, and GPU clients draw from different pools of work units, and points are based on the performance of a benchmark system rather than how many calculations have actually been completed. Thus, a bit different math and a different pool make direct performance comparisons between the 3 methods difficult. But Stanford does hint that the X1900X is the fasted F@H yet.

@Lou

Quote:

Somebody thinks the 360 could beat the PS3 in Folding@Home thanks to the better gpu making up for the weaker cpu:

When even a BSF (to speak in Lou's language) said this already, this is nothing new.

As BrianK points out, the GPU is only helpful with a very limited set of calculations. Sure you could program it to do the other calculations as well, but it would lose its competitive edge.

I have to admit the Cell doesn't do all the different calculations within Folding either, but it does more than a GPU and they are working on extending the calculations on the Cell.

Peter Moore is just whining:
Quote:

I’m not quite sure yet whether we’re seeing real tangible results from the PlayStation 3 Folding@Home initiative

You could say he either means Folding is not useful at all, or he is just aiming his guns at the contribution made by the PS3's.

If Folding is not useful at all (as claimed by Lou, so I'm wondering why he brings this up when he doesn't give a rat's behind about it), there is no point in discussing Folding on the 360. If he wants to downplay the added value of the PS3, it's real strange the people at Folding are really raving about the added value of the PS3.

@jiyong

I'm simply pointing out the monkey-see, monkey-do battle between the PS3 and 360.

If my HMO would re-imburse me for running it on my PC, I would. Other than that, there is no benefit for you or I or anyone else. What happens there will stay in a lab and 10 years from now other computer will have done these calculations in a blink and by the time they come down to practical and affordable use, we'll be too old to care.

Again, it's just a ueless bullet point and if MS is going to get bashed for it, then they'd implement it in there system as well.


In other news:

-THQ cancels PS3 version of Saint's Row in favor of a sequel for both systems. http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5583&Itemid=2

also they had this to say:
Quote:

THQ CFO Edward Zinser said during the call that THQ's expections are based on calendar 2007 North American hardware shipment projections of 5.5-6 million Xbox 360s, 5-5.5 million Wiis, 3.5-4 million PS3s, 3-3.5 million PS2s, 9.5-10 million DSes and 3-3.5 million PSPs. Regarding Europe and other PAL territories, during the same period, the publisher expects shipments of 2.5-3 million Xbox 360s, 4-4.5 million Wiis, 3.5-4 million PS3s, 3.5-4 million PS2s, 8-8.5 million DSes and 3-3.5 million PSPs. THQ said that it is "confident" that Nintendo will be able to live up to its Wii manufacturing objectives. The company has 11 Wii titles on the way and despite the lower average sales price of Wii software, the publisher is confident that the volume of sales will offset the lower price tags. Farrell also reiterated that one of the main advantages of Wii development is the relatively low development cost of games when compared to Xbox 360 and PS3 software. The company said that it is "particularly excited" about Nintendo's home system.

via http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5582&Itemid=2

@Lou

Interesting # prediction from THQ.
NA: 5.5-6M 360 , 3.5-4M PS3
EU: 2.5-3M 360, 3.5-4M PS3
...Total that's 8-9M 360 vs 7-8M PS3. Again someone else saying 2007 won't be the year the PS3 catches either Wii or 360 let alone surpass them. Sony the writing is on the wall 2 things are needed....1) Price drop in all regions and 2) more compelling exclusive titles.

@BrianK

I agree, I don't think many people expected the PS3 to sell more units within its first year than the XBox 360 sold in its first two years. Also considering the very different price points I don't think many people thought the PS3 would immediately outsell the Nintendo Wii. More high profile games are needed to justify the cost, unless you already want a good Blu-Ray player. Having said that IMO the Blu-Ray drive is very important for the long run.

Rockstar regarding GTA IV:

"When questioned about having to compensate for end-users of an Xbox 360 that are without a hard drive and the sheer size difference between the PS3's Blu-ray discs and the Xbox 360's DVDs, Houser indicated that there were certain limitations impeding the development process."

Hopefully the PS3 version won't suffer too much, I think they will make other sacrifices regarding actually pushing the Cell, so they can use the same engine across platforms without making too many PS3 specific alterations (additional investments). Initial Atari ST ports weren't really pushing the Amiga hardware neither, but in some way the ST did pave the way for the Amiga as viable gaming platform.

So on the other hand the XBox 360 userbase makes such a huge undertaking more viable, there's two sides to the story. Similarly the PS3 port of Oblivion although improved in various ways does not really push the PS3 hardware, but indirectly the early XBox 360 userbase made it viable to release (port) such a huge and in depth game this early within the PS3 lifespan.

I have been playing Oblivion for a few days now, feels a lot like Dungeon Master 2 mixed with 3D adventure elements, a very nice experience. Saved a city from Oblivion, bought a house in Anvil city.

Last edited by MikeB on 11-May-2007 at 08:14 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 11-May-2007 at 03:39 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 11-May-2007 at 03:38 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 11-May-2007 at 03:31 PM.

MikeB wrote:

"Also considering the very different price points I don't think many people thought the PS3 would immediately outsell the Nintendo Wii."

One important reason why I think Nintendo Wii sales will drop significantly for the long run when the high profile next-generation titles start to appear:

"The results may surprise some people. Talking to development sources on the condition of anonymity, Croal discovered that people from Nintendo's own development support group said the chipset powering the Wii is a "Gamecube 1.5 with some added memory." The developer who heard that said if Nintendo said it, "it must be true." The Wii lacks programmable shaders as did the original Xbox, and in fact another developer likened the Wii's graphic set to a seven-year old Nvida PC graphics card."

"Croal concludes that Bach's initial claim about the Wii being underpowered compared to the Xbox wasn't unfounded, but not completely true. Still, for a "next gen" system to be so close in power to a console of the previous generation, one has to wonder how long Nintendo can keep up the "graphics don't mean anything" pitch without the gap starting to become too disadvantageous."

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=13442

Although IMO all reports on this so far have been too much concentrating on just the graphics, that's not the Nintendo Wii's only weak spot, it's actually game complexity in general. Sure Lair on the PS3 will have excellent 1080p visuals, but it's also a very huge complex game, with realtime physics effects, a huge amount of soldiers and dragons fighting, 7.1 audio lossless audio, etc well beyond the Wii capabilities. And Lair is just the beginning, the most ambiteous projects often span years of development.

@MikeB

Quote:

I agree, I don't think many people expected the PS3 to sell more units within its first year than the XBox 360 sold in its first two years.

True. But many people did expect the PS3 to sell more in it's first year then the 360 sells in it's second.

Quote:

Having said that IMO the Blu-Ray drive is very important for the long run.

I stand by my statement this will make a difference for a handful of games at best. Most games have levels if you need more space there's the great Live service and 120GB drives, make them downloadable. IMO Microsoft should require a HD on each system.

Quote:

the early XBox 360 userbase made it viable to release (port) such a huge and in depth game

Profits from the 10M base can help fund for the 3M base? Certainly, good thing the 360 owners can provide the PS3 with some great gaming content.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: MikeB wrote: "Also considering the very different price points I don't think many people thought the PS3 would immediately outsell the Nintendo Wii." One important reason why I think Nintendo Wii sales will drop significantly for the long run when the high profile next-generation titles start to appear: "The results may surprise some people. Talking to development sources on the condition of anonymity, Croal discovered that people from Nintendo's own development support group said the chipset powering the Wii is a "Gamecube 1.5 with some added memory." The developer who heard that said if Nintendo said it, "it must be true." The Wii lacks programmable shaders as did the original Xbox, and in fact another developer likened the Wii's graphic set to a seven-year old Nvida PC graphics card." "Croal concludes that Bach's initial claim about the Wii being underpowered compared to the Xbox wasn't unfounded, but not completely true. Still, for a "next gen" system to be so close in power to a console of the previous generation, one has to wonder how long Nintendo can keep up the "graphics don't mean anything" pitch without the gap starting to become too disadvantageous." http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=13442 Although IMO all reports on this so far have been too much concentrating on just the graphics, that's not the Nintendo Wii's only weak spot, it's actually game complexity in general. Sure Lair on the PS3 will have excellent 1080p visuals, but it's also a very huge complex game, with realtime physics effects, a huge amount of soldiers and dragons fighting, 7.1 audio lossless audio, etc well beyond the Wii capabilities. And Lair is just the beginning, the most ambiteous projects often span years of development.

The article is way off base and you can see my arguments here: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22654&forum=17

A tweaked mobile Celeron did not outperform the GC in real-world gaming and the GC's gpu was only properly utilized by a couple of development teams. The extra memory of the Xbox did let it have bigger environments and the like, that was the major advantage of the Xbox.

@BrianK

Quote:

True. But many people did expect the PS3 to sell more in it's first year then the 360 sells in it's second.

For North America and the UK I personally stated I would be more than satisfied if the PS3 performed as well in its first year as the XBox 360 did in its first year (the XBox 360 performed very well there, but poorly elsewhere!). BTW, global sales are bigger than NA + EU, in Japan the PS3 significantly outperform the XBox 360 and in Australia the PS3 is roughly almost selling on par with the Nintendo Wii. If Japan is any indication of how the XBox 360 will fare in comparison to the PS3, the PS3 may have a big advantage in other Asian countries.

Quote:

reat Live service and 120GB drives

A 60 GB harddrive is pretty much standard for the PS3 (a few have 20GB harddrive, others upgraded to 120GB drives or beyond), but 120GB harddrives is far from standard amongst XBox 360 users. Also having to download 40GB of additional data wouldn't be so great with the current live service.

I think multi-platform developers will make sacrifices for both PS3 and XBox 360 versions (due to XBox 360 storage limitations) and exclusive PS3 developers won't.

Quote:

Certainly, good thing the 360 owners can provide the PS3 with some great gaming content

Last edited by MikeB on 11-May-2007 at 06:46 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

BTW, global sales are bigger than NA + EU, in Japan the PS3 significantly outperform the XBox 360 and in Australia the PS3 is roughly almost selling on par with the Nintendo Wii. If Japan is any indication of how the XBox 360 will fare in comparison to the PS3, the PS3 may have a big advantage in other Asian countries.

Yes they are. However the amount of PS3 sold in Japan is far below the amount of 360 sold in NA+EU. Japan's numbers are not adding enough to counteract the NA+EU market and the 360's large lead there. Worldwide the PS3 taking 2nd is partially due to the Wii factor. The Wii eats both 360 and PS3 for breakfast in Japan. If this is any indication the Wii may have a big advantage in other Asian countries. This is part of the reason I believe the Wii will be #1 and the PS3 vs 360 is a fight for 2nd place. If Microsoft loses to 3rd again their 3rd is going to be a larger marketshare then what the Xbox owned. No matter which place Sony gets it's clearly fallen off the top of the console market and will not enjoy the large % market ownership of their past 2 consoles. Right now it appears to be a 3 way race with a more even market split then the last few console markets.

@BrianK

Quote:

Worldwide the PS3 taking 2nd is partially due to the Wii factor.

Until the major PS3 titles hit the market, the PS2 may still be a major factor globally.

Peter Moore responds to hardware defects and other 360 issues

"I can't comment on failure rates, because it's just not something -- it's a moving target. What this consumer should worry about is the way that we've treated him. Y'know, things break"

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=111968

IMO an unsatisfactory response and worrying standpoint taken by Microsoft...

@MikeB

Quote:

Until the major PS3 titles hit the market, the PS2 may still be a major factor globally.

Perhaps but since there is a large $$ between these 2 boxes any PS2 stuff out there might actually be holding back the Wii and having little impact on the PS3.

Japan -- PS2 sales have been dropping I believe this week the PS3 outsold the PS2.

@MikeB

Quote:

IMO an unsatisfactory response and worrying standpoint taken by Microsoft...

Peter changed his mind said yes it's bad we screwed up. Microsoft is pulling out of the market and refunding all customers for their wasted gaming time and money.

@BrianK

from www.gamesarefun.com:
Quote:

Japanese hardware sales for April 29 - May 6: System - Weekly sales (Compared to last week) - 2007 sales - Lifetime sales 1. DSL - 285,123 (+29,152) - 2,886,868 - 10,336,752 2. Wii - 101,320 (-1,202) - 1,452,172 - 2,371,815 3. PSP - 35,172 (+1,312) - 839,395 - 5,371,524 4. PS2 - 14,815 (+2,231) - 324,604 - 20,479,463 5. PS3 - 12,974 (+183) - 417,056 - 874,614 6. 360 - 3,205 (+43) - 93,550 - 358,252 7. NGC - 394 (+227) - 6,763 - 4,176,231 8. GBM - 340 (-290) - 18,400 - 578,280 9. GBASP - 302 (-193) - 16,348 - 5,935,298 10. NDS - 69 (-23) - 1,984 - 6,584,241 11. GBA - 11 (+11) - 589 - 8,823,795 Total sales: 453,725 (up 31,451 from last week) Last week's sales: 422,274 For reference: Last week's sales Source: Media Create

That was the week before. PS2 made a small jump. It seems Wii software sales are starting to hold their own in Japan too and as more Wii-centric games come out, demand will only increase further...and that begins this summer... There have been so many Wii-exclusive games announced over the past couple of weeks from Square-Enix, SEGA, Namco, THQ, EA and others that I don't even bother mentioning them. The Wii is fast becoming the new "PS2" only without the high hardware failure rate... Does than mean it won't ever outsell the PS2? ... Actually, the Wii is outpacing the PS2's first year of availability... Believe it or not, PS2 sales blossomed in it's 3rd and 4th years... The DS launched in 11/04 and look how sales have increased steadily.

One look at each platform's upcoming releases:
PS3
Xbox 360
Wii

and you can kinda guess the pattern that sales will follow by now...
It won't be a dull summer for Wii owners - that's for sure!

BREAKING NEWS!
EA says 360 is more powerful than the PS3: http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=16757

Last edited by Lou on 11-May-2007 at 09:57 PM.